Knights

Thade

DINOSAUR THADE
As a shadowknight the only things I really want are some sort of mana management tool, spears to be more efficient, and a stance rework.
 

Airek

Dalayan Adventurer
Did they ever undo the nerfs to paladin hots generating aggro? Its been a really long time and maybe that should happen too

If it was undone it was never publicly announced, but eye test says no. According to the hate numbers from the arena event years ago (post ghot hate nerf), the level 64 ghot generates 5 aggro with full aggression mods (no r2).
 

Otcho

Dalayan Pious Diety
only pally self heals generate aggro , never understood really why pally hots did not.
because in a time long ago paladins were the exp group tank of choice and people didn't like that they could easily generate aggro on treasure maps and other shit preemptively ontop of having the only reliable form of aoe aggro spells. thus hot aggro got flushed down the toilet. maybe devs had anothe reason for doing it but that was always what was said.
 

Melodico

Dalayan Elder
help mana sustain somehow

#1 knight issue - if a knight is trying to keep agro off on tier dps, they simply hemorrhage mana. (with veil on cd as an sk)

Also i disagree giving paladin RHOT agro something comparable to veil - why would anyone play an sk at that point? (not that veil makes / breaks the class, but that paladins would become WAY better than SKs if they had a veil mechanic)

For SK here are my random ideas -

*Make Vortex a better mana bump (it is already decent, but not enough to stop mana hemorrhaging.)
or
*Give SK some minor form of mana tap from their unused 3rd Tome

*Extend veil duration or make it an aura, that also fades if the sk casts any other spells.

*Give Soul Shroud proc a short duration recourse that allows group / raid members the ability to melee proc a comparable lifetap

*Create the 3rd class tome that reduces the CD of recasting a pet, incentivizing try-hard pet stancing

*Allow Shroud of Nightmares to be cast onto others by targetting the PC prior to spell landing.

*Extend the Words of Spirit (lvl 39 AE) line of spells to give SK more small AE DD options that are viable at 65

ps all the talk about paladins : poop:
 

Best Buds

Dalayan Beginner
only pally self heals generate aggro , never understood really why pally hots did not.

Once upon a time there was a frog who hated knights, especially cunts named Ringo and his sack named Xach.

Many people accused this frog of being jealous, but in reality his girthy, veiny frog brain was just bigger than that of his lesser knightly counterparts.

One day our frog champion spotted a group of knights with their arms locked, skipping down a rainbow road, and singing a merry jingle:

"Ding dong, ding dong
It's a lovely day to be a queer
I'll cast a HoT on my brothers twat
and Spear him in he rear

I spread my cheer
then whimper in his ear
'knights rule and frogs drool!'
Ding dong ding dong"

The frog approached slowly and cautiously.

"Please explain this pile of faggotry."

Their arms locked tighter and they squeeled in unison.

"We are the knights of Dalaya! We generate the most aggro and have the best weapons!"

The inquisitive frog pulled out his dual swords of logic and pointed them directly at the gaggle of knights.

"Don't you think that's a little short sighted? Wouldn't smoother, slower power creep and more defined class roles and balance lend themselves long term health?"

The knights anxiously looked at each other before returning their venomous gaze to the lone frog.

"Don't challenge our pride party... OR ELSE," hissed the knights' leader.

"Or else WHAT you clown-shoed shitdicked candy ass!?!" the fearless frog boomed back.

A series of forum brawls ensued. When the dust finally settled, a victorious frog wielding swords of logic and cloaked by a cape of intelligence stood proud at the top of a pile of crying knights.

And that's the story of how knight 1H ratios and HoTs got nerfed.
 

Masuriya

Dalayan Elder
I don't think anyone really suggested making hots on veil status for aggro plus I'd guess veil scales a LOT better than hots ever would. Casting veil on a melee group worth a crap is a pretty outrageous amount of aggro, especially if it has a couple monks on it. It's not coast and spam taps for the rest of the fight quality but it's a pretty good lead and SKs are the only tank I feel safe spamming bellows with on raids besides a fight where a warrior gets a decent lead on aggro on.

Plus SKs potentially get a PBAE threat mechanic later, assuming the spell files haven't changed drastically recently. Not that I'd be opposed to something earlier on but it's probably a harder ask.
 

Otcho

Dalayan Pious Diety
#1 knight issue - if a knight is trying to keep agro off on tier dps, they simply hemorrhage mana. (with veil on cd as an sk)

Also i disagree giving paladin RHOT agro something comparable to veil - why would anyone play an sk at that point? (not that veil makes / breaks the class, but that paladins would become WAY better than SKs if they had a veil mechanic)

For SK here are my random ideas -

*Make Vortex a better mana bump (it is already decent, but not enough to stop mana hemorrhaging.)
or
*Give SK some minor form of mana tap from their unused 3rd Tome

*Extend veil duration or make it an aura, that also fades if the sk casts any other spells.

*Give Soul Shroud proc a short duration recourse that allows group / raid members the ability to melee proc a comparable lifetap

*Create the 3rd class tome that reduces the CD of recasting a pet, incentivizing try-hard pet stancing

*Allow Shroud of Nightmares to be cast onto others by targetting the PC prior to spell landing.

*Extend the Words of Spirit (lvl 39 AE) line of spells to give SK more small AE DD options that are viable at 65

ps all the talk about paladins : poop:


I would love to see increased mana efficiency for both knights, being a low tier knight is one of the most insufferable things and you will often be the cause of any downtime regarding mana. I would like to maybe see some effects of spells combined if possible, the spell bar is direly low on slots and buff slots were an issue in the past, I assume its just as bad if not worse now.

I think there should honestly just be a tome to create a junk pet on spears or an aa or literally anything to make the pet tome less janky. You are basically required to have a pet summoning clicky to make any usage of it. Moving gear around to activate it gets tiresome fast.

Specifically regarding your soul shroud idea that was the whole point of sublimate soul in a world where it actually had a very useful proc before being gutted 3 days after release. Now the proc is mostly an annoyance or largely forgettable.

Theres a great number of things you can do to improve the quality of life aspect of both knights and I hope that happens more than just raw number adjustments. A good chunk of the spells being mostly useless is also sad times. Please give me a useful dot.
 
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Tevinter

Dalayan Pious Diety
you could completely remove the mana cost of the pure threat gen spells for both knights (blinds/terrors/stuns?) and they'd actually still be noticeably worse than warriors in exp group scenarios.

paladin r2 shouldn't have any kind of healing penalty associated with it. paladins could also benefit from some kind of damage scaling, because as it stands i'm pretty sure they do less single target dps going all out than a priest just auto attacking.
 

Otcho

Dalayan Pious Diety
you could completely remove the mana cost of the pure threat gen spells for both knights (blinds/terrors/stuns?) and they'd actually still be noticeably worse than warriors in exp group scenarios.

paladin r2 shouldn't have any kind of healing penalty associated with it. paladins could also benefit from some kind of damage scaling, because as it stands i'm pretty sure they do less single target dps going all out than a priest just auto attacking.
somebody link the one post by wiz where he declared paladins the dps tank so we can get on the road to divine rage.
 

Apros

Dalayan Elder
you could completely remove the mana cost of the pure threat gen spells for both knights (blinds/terrors/stuns?) and they'd actually still be noticeably worse than warriors in exp group scenarios.

paladin r2 shouldn't have any kind of healing penalty associated with it. paladins could also benefit from some kind of damage scaling, because as it stands i'm pretty sure they do less single target dps going all out than a priest just auto attacking.

So when you say all out.... auto attack with R2?
 

Rymy

Developer
Staff member
Still hashing out the details for other knight stuff. A lot of the issues stated here are known but good to be re-iterated.
 

Otcho

Dalayan Pious Diety
what dev do I have to bribe to have damage shields work on fully mitigated hits.
santa please deliver me the ability to kill really weak cons faster and all the other poor souls with no form of viable aoe. having to take gear off to kill packs of trivial things faster will always be silly. I am forever haunted by my struggle to kill undead rats in easy maps.
 

Paxit

Dalayan Elder
Reducing mana cost on threat spells is a good idea or add some type of mana recourse gain on the higher costing threat spells. Block should be added as skill when using 2 handers, knights lose that ability if they are equiping a shield iirc.
Do mobs have alignments ? like evil , neutral , good ? It always struck me as odd that pally get undead crits for the group but sk do not get anything vs specific mob types , If mob do have aligntments maybe aura can be applied here to give bonus to vs good or evil mobs when aura's become a thing.
I think taryth mentioned he was able to get auras to function on this client but it hasnt been applied yet. perhaps it would be a good starting point to aura's.
 

Snake

Dalayan Elder
Khandra can't even aux with R2 with out taking aggro from Alpharious, and sometimes even Moraelin.

To me Warrior aggro seems to be the weakest tank aggro atm.


But why not just buff tank aggro all together? I hate to make the argument, but like they did in WoW... :eek:o_O:rolleyes:
Some encounters even have "tank affinity", so that the boss won't attack anyone but the tank, as long as there is a tank.
Also "Disarm snap aggro". I mean if it's needed there, it's probably needed else where.

Not saying a tank should have auto Tank affinity and Snap disarm aggro on all mobs, just saying beef up aggro on War, Pal and SK in general, so they have a chance to make it feel like they do.
 
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Swight

Dalayan Elder
The aggro issues I notice are things like how taunt works. being put just above the highest agro in the group is almost worthless if you have someone in the group that can out dps you . basically becomes a competition of who hits first. and auto tank affinity sounds horrible for some fights. kinda tosses out some alternative tank strats. like on fights where I use a necro and shaman tank people with tanks that are weaker would be at a severe disadvantage. disclaimer: I have almost no experience playing level 65 tanks most of my experience is with tanks are running them for adepts.
 

Yamaha96

Dalayan Beginner
My opinion, tanks should be innately good at aggro and shouldn’t need to put more than 30% of their focus to hold aggro. Freeing up more time to focus on other abilites that make you character unique, positioning, mechanics self heals etc.

Spamming “aggro spell” nearly 100% of the time is not much fun.
 
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