God help us, its a BST thread

http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Loop_of_the_Tireless

Get rid of CS5 (first off, dafuq? T12 w/ a 5... but I digress) and give it the reagent con. Always thought this item was a bit underwhelming, and RC is lacking across the board. Instead of making new gear, it'd be a lot easier to revamp a few of the existing items that seem out of place, and this item popped into my mind.

I'm tirelessly loading mages everytime I load in, and tirelessly casting savagery on that ranger guy and some random person that always complain if the buff icon even starts to blink
 
daenar_sod said:
Something minor. --- It's late, I have a massive headache.
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I gotcha, Daenar.

Real talk, you see fights in real life, TV, that latest Vine video of kids fighting in the street. One thing that I notice from them is that people get pissed easily and ignore the pain (speaking from experience, poor kid kept punching and I just kinda took it until the wrestling team threw him against the locker, gg, week of detention for him, I go home and play Xbox). So why not put AC on there?

To go along with that, the adrenaline rush ends up making this illusion of tunnel vision, so if there were a bad side to this, this is where I could see this being implied. So in a way I would suggest lowering INT/WIS stats or something to the affect of having that 'tunnel vision' to go with-
daenar_sod said:
ideas of what being "a savage" is all about.
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Seriously. Necromancers have a spell line called Lich. We become liches. Paladins and clerics stick to the idea that what they do and the magic they cast is 'holy'. When i search Define Beastlord in google, Urban Dictionary even describes them as overwhelmingly intense or savage. If I cast savage on myself I think that I should be savage. It's how I feel when I'm a Necro casting lich, I should be partially dead-looking....
 
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Thanks for the kind words @daenar_sod , i'll mail you some Midol for your headaches.

Regarding Savagery, I don't see how anyone could consider it a wasted buff slot when people are making space for their naturewards and cotp primarily for attack. I like where Daenar is going with replacement features for the buff. I like the idea of chances to flurry, but don't think they should be limited to riposte, way too situational. If group savagery were to become a thing, it would be important that not all the attack be nerfed from the buff. Maybe like 40atk instead of 100, the 10% stamina loss reduction i suggested, and some sort of flurry component (credit to Daenar).

Regarding negatives, @demither : the problem with slashing wis/int is that lots and lots of hybrids and melee are already at the brink of their tome of the minds not working due to low int/wis. If there were to be a negative component, which i don't see there being a need for (see bards), then this can't be it.

Daenar, the loop of the tireless change to reagent con would be amazing. Granted RC needs to be fleshed out more as well to melee/hybrid gear, but it's a great end game start.
 
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Also, Swiftur is a twat. BOOM, with all of that we have covered the top 5 100% agreed upon bullet points by the entire past/present/future SoD community. Last bullet point was hard to work out but we did it guys. Mission accomplished.
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I'm going to leave the original post intact because it's a lot of decent info, but seriously, let's not go after other people personally. Most posts I'd just delete the original. I value (almost) everyone's opinion, don't water down your points by calling names sir.
 
I don't think we need to get too complicated with savagery... I do like the idea of reduced stamina drain instead of resists, and potential making it a group spell, but those two changes, along with RC itemization would be fix its issues IMO.

I have a relatively random idea, that a post here just made me think of, but I think it would be pretty cool, a new 65 spell:
Cannibalistic Frenzy:
5 mana
Lose 750 health when cast
.5 sec cast time
30s recast
Gain 150 mana
Add 4 tic buff with:
150 attack
25% over haste

What do people think about that? Seems in line with class lore to me. It would also help pad BST mana pools a little bit so they can afford to cast these DoTs they are getting, when that mana used to be spent on heals, buffs, nukes, swarm pets. It also needs to be used strategically/intelligently, since it will just kill the BST if they stack it with AEs from an encounter.

If it's something peoe really like, and gets implemented, it would probably make sense to add lower level versions. The beastlords personal canni/yaulp hybrid spell line.
 
Silosobi said:
I don't think we need to get too complicated with savagery... I do like the idea of reduced stamina drain instead of resists, and potential making it a group spell, but those two changes, along with RC itemization would be fix its issues IMO.

I have a relatively random idea, that a post here just made me think of, but I think it would be pretty cool, a new 65 spell:
Cannibalistic Frenzy:
5 mana
Lose 750 health when cast
.5 sec cast time
30s recast
Gain 150 mana
Add 4 tic buff with:
150 attack
25% over haste

What do people think about that?
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That cooldown seems OP, basically saying give beastlords yaulp 5.5. I know we need better dps, and this is very original and in line with lore as you said... especially since we already get frenzy of spirit AA which baiscally does the same thing except more powerful. 12 min reuse, 5 ticks
Effects:
Slot 5: Increase Melee Haste v3 by 200%
Slot 8: Increase DEX by 100
Slot 11: Increase STR by 100

Which is actually kind of perfect because it could use the same buff stacking so that frenzy overwrites it, etc... This would be pretty freaking kewl. Would you intend it to stack with bard song? If not, what's the point? 22% vs 25%. Bards are always around. I think the canni is pretty freaking cool. HP drain a little high when taking into consideration lower tiers, but it wouldn't matter too much with soothing going, that said it would actually scale well because as you progress you'd be able to use it more. A fresh 65 bst. couldnt realistically keep this on cooldown cuz they'd kill themself. Lol
 
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Taryth said:
OK yay, got the go-ahead for things! So the spells first:

Spells
--------
- Glaciation of Blood - like Funeral Pyre (necro) but cold-based and a faster cast time because hybrid. Numbers may need tweaking.
- Glaciation will have a progression set like Ignite Blood for lower levels, working out exactly when these will come in
Sounds good, look forward to testing it.
- Hakahm's Companion Curse - another in the curse line of spells - ALL pets will crit against the target while it runs. It will last for double the normal curse duration as long as it doesn't end up being OP. This is unique to BLs, and should increase their desirability, I would hope, with other pet classes. Shorter CD than other curses due to its more limited nature
A pet curse? Interesting.
- Removal of Plague, which will stay in the other classes that currently have it
Good riddance
- Bump to Venom of the Wild (already done)
Hooray!

AA
------
- Great suggestion yesterday, Spirit Speed (the AA) will become a spell, and the new Curse will take place of the AA. This will make a spell slot a bit more accessible
As long as it is rolled into an existing pet buff, and all pet buff durations get normalized along with.

Stances
----------
- Still finalizing what these look like, but looking at 2 or 3 that drain stamina. NO I HAVE NO PLANS TO GET RID OF /S7!!!!
Hopefully at least one will be a low drain, true DPS stance...

TBD
-------
I know, Runic2 pet. I'm probably going to do that last TBH, but I know it still needs doing
Any word on a pet between the one we have and the r2, by chance? Numerous suggestions for it.

Questions
------------
- Savagery is not going to lose its components, and with that, I question it's remaining usefulness. How do folks feel about getting rid of it? What can we REALISTICALLY replace it with? If you say ice comet i will beat u
WTF? Why the heck not? If you guys can't be realistic on it, why shouldn't we ask for Ice Comet? (lol) The spell suffers from a double negative right now, short duration and a reagent requirement. If you flat out, and stupidly, refuse to remove the reagent, then the short duration should be changed.
Alternative ideas: First: Remove savagery, and add its existing stat boost (all of it) to SV. The same people that want savagery are the same ones who use SV over SSS anyways. Second: Make it a group buff, with similar duration/recast as cunning. Then we can cunning caster group, Sav melee group, and proceed to nap.. err.. dps.
- Spirit of Tearing: I don't like this spell, I'm still torn on what to do with it
I know some have paid a silly price to get this spell in the past, but it seems almost the best thing would to be just remove it. Barring that, it needs to probably do double the damage it does, along with debuffing resists on the mob, and have a decent enough proc rate that it keeps that debuff on. Otherwise, it will not be enough to convince people to not use the heal. It also needs to be able to overwrites soothing (and soothing on it), so that we can swap as desired by content. Because it sucks to have to unsummon an equipped pet and summon a new one because of a pet proc that triggers a wipe. Yes, there is pet hold, but then there goes a chunk of our dps, and the idea is to make us more dependent on our pet's dps as part of the bst dps, isn't it?
- Bitter Cold: probably going away, incorporated into one of the stances. How do folks feel about this?
I wouldn't be sad to see it go, they seemed a weird addition near the end of leveling, and the recourse uses one of badly limited buff slots. The stance would have to be a fairly low stamina cost for us to maintain. And then, we could easily fall into the pit that it might be the only one that gets used, if the dots truly become effective. Perhaps just buff up the later dots by the amount BC gives, and be done with it? The other alternative, would be to build the dot boost recourse into a buff we already cast, like Sav, Cunning, or Bliss. That way, the new stances can be more dynamic and situational, and not have to depend on being better than the "dot stance" to get used.

USEFUL feedback pls.
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Answers in blood.. err.. red above
 
darksabbath said:
- Bitter Cold: probably going away, incorporated into one of the stances. How do folks feel about this?
The stance would have to be a fairly low stamina cost for us to maintain. And then, we could easily fall into the pit that it might be the only one that gets used, if the dots truly become effective. Perhaps just buff up the later dots by the amount BC gives, and be done with it? The other alternative, would be to build the dot boost recourse into a buff we already cast, like Sav, Cunning, or Bliss. That way, the new stances can be more dynamic and situational, and not have to depend on being better than the "dot stance" to get used.
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I've been saying this for a while now, as have others. Roll the improvements into the DOTs baselines to cover the 48% bitter cold mod and then some.

darksabbath said:
Stances
----------
- Still finalizing what these look like, but looking at 2 or 3 that drain stamina. NO I HAVE NO PLANS TO GET RID OF /S7!!!!
Hopefully at least one will be a low drain, true DPS stance...
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Companion Spirit Attunement: Pet mimics the magics of his owner (spells and procs)
Low stamina drain just like old /s 4. This will be the main slow burn dps stance. It wont last forever but long enough to be a viable dps increase long term.

Focus of the Lemur (current /s 5), renamed to something more appropriate, give it a big accuracy bonus for moderate burn, done.

Rending Rage (current /s 6), names fine. Give this double spell and melee damage, exhaustive like it is, high stamina drain, heavy burn. Realize that this is not OP because we are not rogues or rangers, we don't get 5000pt backstabs or bow shots to double up.
 
Silosobi said:
I don't think we need to get too complicated with savagery... I do like the idea of reduced stamina drain instead of resists, and potential making it a group spell, but those two changes, along with RC itemization would be fix its issues IMO.

I have a relatively random idea, that a post here just made me think of, but I think it would be pretty cool, a new 65 spell:
Cannibalistic Frenzy:
5 mana
Lose 750 health when cast
.5 sec cast time
30s recast
Gain 150 mana
Add 4 tic buff with:
150 attack
25% over haste

What do people think about that? Seems in line with class lore to me. It would also help pad BST mana pools a little bit so they can afford to cast these DoTs they are getting, when that mana used to be spent on heals, buffs, nukes, swarm pets. It also needs to be used strategically/intelligently, since it will just kill the BST if they stack it with AEs from an encounter.

If it's something peoe really like, and gets implemented, it would probably make sense to add lower level versions. The beastlords personal canni/yaulp hybrid spell line.
Click to expand...
I think this is one of the best things in the thread. Could maybe use tweaks but just the ability basically being perfectly intertwined with a shaman's in a unique way for a melee class really makes sense.
 
Silosobi said:
I don't think we need to get too complicated with savagery... I do like the idea of reduced stamina drain instead of resists, and potential making it a group spell, but those two changes, along with RC itemization would be fix its issues IMO.

I have a relatively random idea, that a post here just made me think of, but I think it would be pretty cool, a new 65 spell:
Cannibalistic Frenzy:
5 mana
Lose 750 health when cast
.5 sec cast time
30s recast
Gain 150 mana
Add 4 tic buff with:
150 attack
25% over haste

What do people think about that? Seems in line with class lore to me. It would also help pad BST mana pools a little bit so they can afford to cast these DoTs they are getting, when that mana used to be spent on heals, buffs, nukes, swarm pets. It also needs to be used strategically/intelligently, since it will just kill the BST if they stack it with AEs from an encounter.

If it's something peoe really like, and gets implemented, it would probably make sense to add lower level versions. The beastlords personal canni/yaulp hybrid spell line.
Click to expand...
what about
Cannibalistic Frenzy:
5 mana
Lose 750 health when cast
.5 sec cast time
30s recast
Gain 150 mana
Add 4 tic buff with:
100 attack
GUARANTEED DOUBLE ATTACK
 
fuwok said:
Give beastlords double/triple attack instead of whatever weird chance to do more attacks they have now!
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I think there are issues with making this happen due to client limitations? I could be wrong. I'm wrong a lot...
 
Yeah, I don't play a meele, so I don't know exactly how powerful +X attack, or +X overhaste is... I figured that since Beastlord meele dps is pretty abysmal right now, and the current changes seem to be going towards DoTs and pets, even a big boost to meele dps wouldn't be OP. 10% extra meele damage on a ranger or rogue or monk is massive. 10% more meele damage on a beastlord is... maybe 1/3 of what a ranger/rogue/monk would gain? It would definitely need to stack with (most) everything else, certainly the "standard" stuff like bard overhaste. And I'm not really set on the haste, I just though a combination of canni, and a meele buff was a really cool idea for the shaman monk hybrid. The exact mechanics for a meele boost could be decided by someone else, I originally thought about Attack and a flurry chance, but was just trying to go with the simplest version.

With all these DoTs becoming viable, Beastlords will be a pretty mana intensive class, if they want to carry their weight. The massive mana consuming swarm pet is a big reason for this. Giving them a way to gain back from mana would better let them use and balance all their abilities instead of deciding "casting X is most efficient, so don't bother with anything else". And it has the limitation of costing health, meaning it cant be used wily-nily, and naturally scales with gear (through both the damage being more manageable, and the meele bonuses being multiplied by stronger weapons).
 
In re: bitter cold, I think doing away with bitter cold and rolling the dot increase into bst dots is fine.

However, if bitter cold was changed to be:
DD + Debuff (that increases all dot damage ticks on the mob for X ticks)
Does not use buff slot on player

That would be very solid.
 
fuwok said:
In re: bitter cold, I think doing away with bitter cold and rolling the dot increase into bst dots is fine.

However, if bitter cold was changed to be:
DD + Debuff (that increases all dot damage ticks on the mob for X ticks)
Does not use buff slot on player

That would be very solid.
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Yeah from a raid perspective it would be very powerful if you stack necros. other than that it would be the same old problem we have now.... we need a fast casting nuke that does more damage so as not to lose melee swings and improve scaling dps.

Like icerend...
 
I'd personally like to move away from Beastlords gaining their power through buffing other classes. The spells they already have are cool, but they are already fairly strong in this area (adding raid utility/power), and really weak in personal dps/healing/tanking.

If a class's strengths are buffing others, they will naturally excel at 18 man stuff, and in order to be worthwhile at 6 man stuff, they have to be absurdly powerful at the 18 man stuff (enchanter, to a lesser degree bards). Beastlords already see vastly diminishing returns with cunning and savagery in a single group (cunning hits maybe 1-2 casters, instead of 4-5 casters, and less ideal savagery targets). They already gained the pet curse as well, which is naturally way more effective in a raid setting, so that is quite a bit of added strength to raids. I'd hope to see most of their remaining power gain go into themselves (and their pet).

The Cannabilistic Frenzy seems to be something players like, can Devs get behind that as well? Just need to figure out what meele buffs are appropriate and hash out numbers.

There have already been some cool changes to DoTs, what about a buff to Rage of the Wild? Its already a Beastlord only DoT, just has abysmally low numbers. Maybe just double the duration? Or give it a 20 min duration and cap the damage at 150-200? Either of these options would keep it as low dps (40-50dps), but efficient for the mana cost.

R2 (and pets in general) definitely need a boost. Have we considered if swarm pets will benefit from ignoring AEs? That alone would be a pretty huge boost for beastlords. What about the idea of adding some scaling health/damage to Keshuval's Protection? Lack of scaling has always been a big issue for pets, and pet classes. It would be a little more complicated to code, but if we could make pets scale better with the class, it would go a long way, and really make sense for the class called BEASTlord. Mag/Nec suffer from lack of pet scaling too, but mages get a really good tome, and both classes just scale on their own through spells really well. Beastlords don't...
 
Why not put in a Group Savagery like they did DB, and make it take another gem? Clerics went from having "free" DB via summoned dots taking forever to cast on an entire raid to opals. So keep current Savagery, where it can be cast on those that *need* it, up the amount of reagent cons items for beastlords, and give them a group form that takes an expensive gem to do on a group. Without reagent cons items being improved (which really needs to happen), and the fact that savagery on a group would be *so* situational that no one would want to do it often if the gem was expensive, could fix half the complaints about Savagery. Even after RC items being added, if you make it a high end or droppable only gem (such as rubies for Necros), would be where in most cases, they'd go the single route on everything except raids. Maybe even tweak the duration so group lasts less time than if cast single.
 
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