God help us, its a BST thread
- Thread starter Taryth
- Start date
Nwaij
Dalayan Pious Diety
To set a few things straight: DB uses pearls, not peridots, so they were NEVER free. Also clerics have access to decent reagent conservation items, BSTs not so much, so all this would achieve is making BSTs broke.
OK, looking at runic 2 pet now, if I were to give it a neat proc, what would that be? Difficulty: we can't unbalance mages, they are the kings/queens of that sort of stuff. I've thought of a few ideas, but none really grab me or are so OP that they aren't gonna happen.
Discuss.
Discuss.
DreadBlade99
Dalayan Adventurer
OK, I have been away a long time and never really got past Spires, but I'm liking some of these ideas. Canni, Icerend, the changes Taryth has already mentioned...very nice. And while I like the group version of Savagery matching Cunning as far as duration/CD, I could live with the spell as is if we just had some RC.
One other idea I don't think anyone talked about...Paragon of Spirit
I absolutely loved this AA when I first got it. It was a lifesaver many times in the early 60s, but by 65 it's kind of meh. It's still nice during downtime to speed up the casters med times, but it just seems lackluster overall. So how about making the third tome either increase the hp/mana regen rate, or add some other perks to it, like adding some burn components to it so it's something to cast to keep the group alive and increase DPS during a critical phase...
Or not, I'm just trying to add something different to the discussion instead of continuing to lurk as usual
One other idea I don't think anyone talked about...Paragon of Spirit
I absolutely loved this AA when I first got it. It was a lifesaver many times in the early 60s, but by 65 it's kind of meh. It's still nice during downtime to speed up the casters med times, but it just seems lackluster overall. So how about making the third tome either increase the hp/mana regen rate, or add some other perks to it, like adding some burn components to it so it's something to cast to keep the group alive and increase DPS during a critical phase...
Or not, I'm just trying to add something different to the discussion instead of continuing to lurk as usual
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
There is a lot of room for growth without stepping on Mage's toes. Currently, at T13, Mage pets do over 2x the dps of Beastlord pets, while the mage themselves also does more dps than the bst.
I think I would rather see a general buff to the pet's meele than a timed proc, but if you want to go the proc route, what if they had a meele intensify, rewarding them for sticking on the same target.
Something like:
Every 30 seconds the warder learns more of its opponents weaknesses, granting the opportunity for a PRECISION STRIKE!
Warder hits its target for 1000 damage. Each additional attack on the same target does an additional 1000 damage, maxing at 6000.
This would add 200 dps once it is maxed out (after 3 minutes on a single target), or 33 dps while changing targets.
Currenly an end game mage pet does ~450, and the beastlord pet does ~220, so even at the maxed out level it would be less dps than a mage pet, and you will never actually see +200 dps since it takes 3 minutes to get there and any target change resets it.
I don't know if it's desirable balance wise to make beastlords stronger when their target stays the same. Its a mechanic that impacts other classes to varying degrees, and I think it does make sense lore-wise that a warder, an instinctual spirit beast would learn their foe's weaknesses by observing and fighting them, allowing them to perform more deadly strikes.
I think I would rather see a general buff to the pet's meele than a timed proc, but if you want to go the proc route, what if they had a meele intensify, rewarding them for sticking on the same target.
Something like:
Every 30 seconds the warder learns more of its opponents weaknesses, granting the opportunity for a PRECISION STRIKE!
Warder hits its target for 1000 damage. Each additional attack on the same target does an additional 1000 damage, maxing at 6000.
This would add 200 dps once it is maxed out (after 3 minutes on a single target), or 33 dps while changing targets.
Currenly an end game mage pet does ~450, and the beastlord pet does ~220, so even at the maxed out level it would be less dps than a mage pet, and you will never actually see +200 dps since it takes 3 minutes to get there and any target change resets it.
I don't know if it's desirable balance wise to make beastlords stronger when their target stays the same. Its a mechanic that impacts other classes to varying degrees, and I think it does make sense lore-wise that a warder, an instinctual spirit beast would learn their foe's weaknesses by observing and fighting them, allowing them to perform more deadly strikes.
Swiftur
Dalayan Elder
I agree with @Silosobi that the R2 pets base dps should increase significantly.
Regarding the timed proc, I was thinking about something like this for a while. I don't think the warders should act on their own, I think it should be something the pet does to help the master out. Then I started thinking about how that could be done and not be OP. First thing that comes to mind is Kick. Our kick skills are pretty much 100% useless until we get good procing boots, then those boots become the only source of viable damage output from kick. I don't think i've seen a kick land for more than 30 even now.
What if, on this timer be it 30 seconds or 48, etc. The pet gives the master an emote that they have latched on to the Target, pinning them down to the ground and opening them up to attack.. In this 1-3 second time, if a kick is used, it will do a large amount of damage (500ish non crit?) and will be guaranteed to land. If completely successfully the warder could get some kind of bonus, like a reward for helping me out. Maybe they could get a temporary attack buff that boosts their dps or accuracy significantly?
If we need balance for this, if the kick is not successfully performed by the master for whatever reason, the pet can be thrown off the target and take some damage (queue the knockback animation =D), 1-2k? I personally don't think that's necessary but Devs like their options =P
I think this would further bridge the lore dynamic between pets and their owners. I would actually like to see this on all bst pets scaled through the levels, but i'm not sure how or if that could be done.
Regarding the timed proc, I was thinking about something like this for a while. I don't think the warders should act on their own, I think it should be something the pet does to help the master out. Then I started thinking about how that could be done and not be OP. First thing that comes to mind is Kick. Our kick skills are pretty much 100% useless until we get good procing boots, then those boots become the only source of viable damage output from kick. I don't think i've seen a kick land for more than 30 even now.
What if, on this timer be it 30 seconds or 48, etc. The pet gives the master an emote that they have latched on to the Target, pinning them down to the ground and opening them up to attack.. In this 1-3 second time, if a kick is used, it will do a large amount of damage (500ish non crit?) and will be guaranteed to land. If completely successfully the warder could get some kind of bonus, like a reward for helping me out. Maybe they could get a temporary attack buff that boosts their dps or accuracy significantly?
If we need balance for this, if the kick is not successfully performed by the master for whatever reason, the pet can be thrown off the target and take some damage (queue the knockback animation =D), 1-2k? I personally don't think that's necessary but Devs like their options =P
I think this would further bridge the lore dynamic between pets and their owners. I would actually like to see this on all bst pets scaled through the levels, but i'm not sure how or if that could be done.
mechkl
Dalayan Elder
nope, kick is there cause iksar kick animations are cool... not to be useful.
make pets back stab. call it a day
Swiftur
Dalayan Elder
Ok... how did we go from this... Venom of the Snake (52) 160 mana...
to this Venom of the Wild (64) 475 mana... (yes i know this is pre change)
To cast bitter cold, venom, glaciation, and swarm pets... we spend 2205 mana... the dots and bitter cold will expire in 4-6 ticks (36 seconds) and swarm pets last about a minute. WHAT!?
Even top tier beastlords are losing 1/4 of their mana on engage. and for approximately 10k damage. we can all do that in 30-45 seconds of melee for free. and all the other melee classes do it in half that time or less. Bards can do 7k nukes (non crit) for 900 mana and have a dot that ticks upwards of 800 and costs 0 mana!
Time to get serious with the changes me thinks. the more i look at us as a class, the more i see how bad we are.
to this Venom of the Wild (64) 475 mana... (yes i know this is pre change)
To cast bitter cold, venom, glaciation, and swarm pets... we spend 2205 mana... the dots and bitter cold will expire in 4-6 ticks (36 seconds) and swarm pets last about a minute. WHAT!?
Even top tier beastlords are losing 1/4 of their mana on engage.
and for approximately 10k damage. we can all do that in 30-45 seconds of melee for free. and all the other melee classes do it in half that time or less. Bards can do 7k nukes (non crit) for 900 mana and have a dot that ticks upwards of 800 and costs 0 mana!Time to get serious with the changes me thinks. the more i look at us as a class, the more i see how bad we are.
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Swiftur
Dalayan Elder
WTB beastlord vesion Glacial Strike to replace bitter cold for all groups ever.
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
That kick idea is cool but I don't think its a good fit to put this interactive mechanic suddenly appearing on the r2 pet. Maybe a tome?
Beaslords definitely are facing some serious mana problems with the current changes. That is part of the reason I suggested the cannibalism hybrid tome, but we could also just adjust mana costs. That poison DoT in particular is just absurd! 475 mana for ~950 damage?!? It's not even a significant amount of damage/dps to be a "burn" spell. Maybe also consider cutting the duration and recast of swarm pets down and reducing the mana cost to 300-400? This would make it less painful when you change targets, or an AE blows them all up. AEs are usually predictable, but some are not, and having a 1000 mana spell get instantly shut down definitely sucks.
Backstab on the R2 pet is simple, but definitely could work. Please keep in mind that at the R2 level, warders do ~220 dps and a mage pet does 380-460 dps, so whatever happens I hope it's significant. BEASTlords sound like their warder companion should be a serious part of their dps kit to me =p
Beaslords definitely are facing some serious mana problems with the current changes. That is part of the reason I suggested the cannibalism hybrid tome, but we could also just adjust mana costs. That poison DoT in particular is just absurd! 475 mana for ~950 damage?!? It's not even a significant amount of damage/dps to be a "burn" spell. Maybe also consider cutting the duration and recast of swarm pets down and reducing the mana cost to 300-400? This would make it less painful when you change targets, or an AE blows them all up. AEs are usually predictable, but some are not, and having a 1000 mana spell get instantly shut down definitely sucks.
Backstab on the R2 pet is simple, but definitely could work. Please keep in mind that at the R2 level, warders do ~220 dps and a mage pet does 380-460 dps, so whatever happens I hope it's significant. BEASTlords sound like their warder companion should be a serious part of their dps kit to me =p
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OK, as I feared, this has degenerated. I am going to keep working on things and see how it goes, but adding complex mechanics and things are not where I want to go with this. I will continue to rework things here a bit, but for now I'm going to let that shake out before we deal with more.
Parting comments:
- Beasts are not Shamans
- Beasts are not Bards
- Mana cost for hybrids will always be higher
- I cannot rebalance 4-6 other classes in the process, which is what some of these things realistically mean
You will just have to trust that I can make it workable at this point. We'll revisit things once more is rolled out.
Parting comments:
- Beasts are not Shamans
- Beasts are not Bards
- Mana cost for hybrids will always be higher
- I cannot rebalance 4-6 other classes in the process, which is what some of these things realistically mean
You will just have to trust that I can make it workable at this point. We'll revisit things once more is rolled out.
OK, here are the updates I have. Things are just about done I think.
Spells
--------------
- Bitter Cold I think I'm going to leave in right now. It's going to be a pain to change and rebalance, and seems to still find a use, especially with pet mimic (see below)
Inherent Ability
------------------
- All BL warders will now increase their damage as a mob's HP decreases. This will scale according to the BL's level, but I assure you it is a noticeable amount, particularly at high levels. Furthermore, while a pet is engaged the BL will receive a percentage of this increased damage multiplier - as your pet hits harder, so will you.
Stances
-------------
- /s 8 - Monkey See, Monkey Do (aka the Mimic Stance). Slow stamina draining stance that will cause your pet to mimic all detrimental spells and procs when you share the same target.
- /s 9 - Jaws and Claws (aka the Whirlwind Stance). One-time stamina hit that causes your pet to WW everything within range around them
Pets
---------
- All pets will begin proccing a mana/stamina bump relative to their level. This will target the BL (not yet implemented, still have some logistics to work out) so they regain a small amount of mana and stamina while the pet is engaged
- The loss of your pet in battle will come with a consequence now...
- Runic 2 pet is about 25% larger than before owing to their power
- Runic 2 pet will periodically cast a spell which halves the cost of the next spell the BL casts. This will be a short recourse on the mob, so you need to be paying attention!
- Runic 2 pet received a small bump in HP, and about a 25% increase in resists across the board
Most of this is ready for patching and has been tested. I am still reserving the right to nerf things that just don't work well in practice though! No whining.
Spells
--------------
- Bitter Cold I think I'm going to leave in right now. It's going to be a pain to change and rebalance, and seems to still find a use, especially with pet mimic (see below)
Inherent Ability
------------------
- All BL warders will now increase their damage as a mob's HP decreases. This will scale according to the BL's level, but I assure you it is a noticeable amount, particularly at high levels. Furthermore, while a pet is engaged the BL will receive a percentage of this increased damage multiplier - as your pet hits harder, so will you.
Stances
-------------
- /s 8 - Monkey See, Monkey Do (aka the Mimic Stance). Slow stamina draining stance that will cause your pet to mimic all detrimental spells and procs when you share the same target.
- /s 9 - Jaws and Claws (aka the Whirlwind Stance). One-time stamina hit that causes your pet to WW everything within range around them
Pets
---------
- All pets will begin proccing a mana/stamina bump relative to their level. This will target the BL (not yet implemented, still have some logistics to work out) so they regain a small amount of mana and stamina while the pet is engaged
- The loss of your pet in battle will come with a consequence now...
- Runic 2 pet is about 25% larger than before owing to their power
- Runic 2 pet will periodically cast a spell which halves the cost of the next spell the BL casts. This will be a short recourse on the mob, so you need to be paying attention!
- Runic 2 pet received a small bump in HP, and about a 25% increase in resists across the board
Most of this is ready for patching and has been tested. I am still reserving the right to nerf things that just don't work well in practice though! No whining.
OH one more thing...
In order to activate most of these things, you will need to complete a quest. It's a lore quest and is NOT DIFFICULT OR LONG AT ALL, but it will give you background about the changes, how they came to be, and more detail about what they are. This too will go in next patch. It will only be for Beastlords.
As part of this, you will learn to become attuned to your pet. As a result, if you do not feel your pet is a good match right now for you, you may be able to get a one-time change...if you're willing to do something to show you are worthy.
In order to activate most of these things, you will need to complete a quest. It's a lore quest and is NOT DIFFICULT OR LONG AT ALL, but it will give you background about the changes, how they came to be, and more detail about what they are. This too will go in next patch. It will only be for Beastlords.
As part of this, you will learn to become attuned to your pet. As a result, if you do not feel your pet is a good match right now for you, you may be able to get a one-time change...if you're willing to do something to show you are worthy.
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
i think the "Other" or "Melee Disciplines" filters work pretty well. They dont get flooded and have relatively important information
cornelweezy
Dalayan Elder
Any chance Barb BSTs can trade bunny pet for a mammoth model?