Class Top 5 List (Thade version)
- Thread starter Thade
- Start date
Dimmi
Dalayan Elder
by the time thade gets around to fixing it, the new syblix will be past you again!
Thade
DINOSAUR THADE
Gloraxyourfaceoff
Dalayan Beginner
pagloac runic2, probably ready to be bumped up to #2?
Gloraxyourfaceoff
Dalayan Beginner
Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
Pagloac doesn't have slow mask or the subsequent quest, this thread is one big gigantic lie.
Kedrin
Dalayan Pious Diety
Well to tell the truth he is very close to mask. Might even have a red star for real before Thade reads this.
Draeos vs Banjimen
HP 8165 vs 7843 Draeos
AC 1763 vs 1670 Draeos
Haste 48% vs 45% Draeos
Attack 1391 vs 1339 Draeos
Worn Attack 150 vs 150 Tie
Diety Spec 20% vs 20% Tie
STR 500 vs 441 Draeos
STA 371 vs 342 Draeos
AGI 406 vs 370 Draeos
DEX 515 vs 485 Draeos
CHA 375 vs 299 Draeos
MR 296 vs 420 Banjimen
FR 146 vs 228 Banjimen
CR 230 vs 256 Banjimen
PR 259 vs 280 Banjimen
DR 266 vs 285 Banjimen
Stun Resist 35% vs 23% Draeos
Mind Sheild 11% vs 34% Banjimen
Crit Strike 12% vs 12% Tie
Agression -9% vs -9% Tie
Damage Reduction 35 vs 9 Draeos
1Hs Mod +20 vs 0 Draeos
Backstab +25 vs +15 Draeos
Double Attack +1 vs +1 Tie
Hide +15 vs +10 Draeos
Piercing +25 vs +20 Draeos
Dodge 0 vs +9 Banjimen
Riposte 0 vs +5 Banjimen
Healing inc 7 Vs Healing inc 7 Tie
Damage inc 7 vs Damage inc 8 Banjimen
Affliction Enhancement 7 vs 0 Draeos
Bane Enhancement 7 vs 0 Draeos
Magic Focus 11% vs 6% Draeos
Runes of Eternity Tied
Tomes
CoP Tied, Both have Dodging, both have Crit Strike 1 and 2, Both have Magic resist 1 done
Banjimen has Swift 1 and 2 done i do not.
I have Wee folk, Passive stances, Rapid Recovery, Treatise, Dex 1-3, Vitality 1-2, Mr 2 and 3, Fr/cr 1, Crit evo 1, Magic Mastery 1-2, Avoidance 1, Insidious 1 and 2, Periphery 1 and 2, Sinister 1, Banjimen does not.
His offhand is a bit better due to not being resistible, and he has DI8 over me, but with 3% more haste, more attack, better mods, and my class tomes done, i out dps him without question, Hes got me in resists but i more then make up for it with better physical survivability and more HP.
Dimmi has not the right primary secondary in but our comparisons would about equal the same as this one.
HP 8165 vs 7843 Draeos
AC 1763 vs 1670 Draeos
Haste 48% vs 45% Draeos
Attack 1391 vs 1339 Draeos
Worn Attack 150 vs 150 Tie
Diety Spec 20% vs 20% Tie
STR 500 vs 441 Draeos
STA 371 vs 342 Draeos
AGI 406 vs 370 Draeos
DEX 515 vs 485 Draeos
CHA 375 vs 299 Draeos
MR 296 vs 420 Banjimen
FR 146 vs 228 Banjimen
CR 230 vs 256 Banjimen
PR 259 vs 280 Banjimen
DR 266 vs 285 Banjimen
Stun Resist 35% vs 23% Draeos
Mind Sheild 11% vs 34% Banjimen
Crit Strike 12% vs 12% Tie
Agression -9% vs -9% Tie
Damage Reduction 35 vs 9 Draeos
1Hs Mod +20 vs 0 Draeos
Backstab +25 vs +15 Draeos
Double Attack +1 vs +1 Tie
Hide +15 vs +10 Draeos
Piercing +25 vs +20 Draeos
Dodge 0 vs +9 Banjimen
Riposte 0 vs +5 Banjimen
Healing inc 7 Vs Healing inc 7 Tie
Damage inc 7 vs Damage inc 8 Banjimen
Affliction Enhancement 7 vs 0 Draeos
Bane Enhancement 7 vs 0 Draeos
Magic Focus 11% vs 6% Draeos
Runes of Eternity Tied
Tomes
CoP Tied, Both have Dodging, both have Crit Strike 1 and 2, Both have Magic resist 1 done
Banjimen has Swift 1 and 2 done i do not.
I have Wee folk, Passive stances, Rapid Recovery, Treatise, Dex 1-3, Vitality 1-2, Mr 2 and 3, Fr/cr 1, Crit evo 1, Magic Mastery 1-2, Avoidance 1, Insidious 1 and 2, Periphery 1 and 2, Sinister 1, Banjimen does not.
His offhand is a bit better due to not being resistible, and he has DI8 over me, but with 3% more haste, more attack, better mods, and my class tomes done, i out dps him without question, Hes got me in resists but i more then make up for it with better physical survivability and more HP.
Dimmi has not the right primary secondary in but our comparisons would about equal the same as this one.
Dimmi
Dalayan Elder
I'm not sure you'd out DPS banjimen reliably, let alone at all. You both get nothing from str tones, so you're both capped = in those respects. Same mainhand with his offhand being superior (idk what hurricane does but unless it gives you +40 or more atk and lets you crap lifetap procs everywhere it's not as good) puts a win on the banji side there.
None of your physical stats matter essentially and your atk win is a moot point due to the way fomelo figures atk with str. Overall I'd say you should pass banji with a minor win from hp due to an at-tier appraisal, with a loss due to saves at anything but the spires+ tier. Idk what all those tomes do to DPS on a rogue, but I know i've seen recent parses from reinhardt with all those tomes done and it is the exact same as the parses from before those tomes came into play.
tl;dr, i agree that draeos could pass banji on the premise that their DPS is, for all intents and purposes, closes enough to equal as to not matter, with draeos winning out just slightly on the survivability side from HP and banji crushing draeos on saves (where it actually matters).
for a clear pass, draeos should do some real tomes instead of that tank garbage. stop doing that resilience silliness and do your str tomes to take advantage of your higher str score (so it acually matters) etc. Otherwise, i'd call it a g2 rule as neither one is as likely to out-dps or our-survive the other at this point.
As far as passing Dimmi, siblyx was like...THERE then deleted his toon or w/e. I have no problem renouncing the #2 spot, but none of you will ever beat me DPS wise, so eat shaft, etc. (reinhardt's recent parses are equal to if not less than the parses from before i quit, so theoretical DPS dickery can go right out the window)
For future reference, if you wanna win, include bane dmg and detailed proc information in your comparison. Magic focus matters, but include WHY it matters (I have 3 magic based procs vs other guy's 1 magic based proc and he has no focus for his other procs but I have focus effects for all my procs and they do xxx dmg and go off 12% of the time) etc. It really matters. Why does Dimmi's life tap mastery tome matter at all? Because he has at least 4 life-tap based procs (plus one clicky) that go off ALL THE DAMN TIME and it has an honest effect on DPS and survivability. These things are important. I saw no mention of worn acumen (even if it's a tie, it's worth mentioning) or proc-analysis focus effects. Having an elemental or undead based proc item in your ammo slot doesn't carry NEAR the wieght even a sraen banner does. Haste pretty much doesn't matter at this point, and tbh i'd give more wieght to an item like caretaker's will because of the high damage having less chance of being mitigated to 0 by DR or AC.
Draeos ur too eager, and it's still too close to call a win imo. Wait for crushing defeat and then skyrocket. Or at least include actual pertinent information and make a solid case for yourself.
None of your physical stats matter essentially and your atk win is a moot point due to the way fomelo figures atk with str. Overall I'd say you should pass banji with a minor win from hp due to an at-tier appraisal, with a loss due to saves at anything but the spires+ tier. Idk what all those tomes do to DPS on a rogue, but I know i've seen recent parses from reinhardt with all those tomes done and it is the exact same as the parses from before those tomes came into play.
tl;dr, i agree that draeos could pass banji on the premise that their DPS is, for all intents and purposes, closes enough to equal as to not matter, with draeos winning out just slightly on the survivability side from HP and banji crushing draeos on saves (where it actually matters).
for a clear pass, draeos should do some real tomes instead of that tank garbage. stop doing that resilience silliness and do your str tomes to take advantage of your higher str score (so it acually matters) etc. Otherwise, i'd call it a g2 rule as neither one is as likely to out-dps or our-survive the other at this point.
As far as passing Dimmi, siblyx was like...THERE then deleted his toon or w/e. I have no problem renouncing the #2 spot, but none of you will ever beat me DPS wise, so eat shaft, etc. (reinhardt's recent parses are equal to if not less than the parses from before i quit, so theoretical DPS dickery can go right out the window)
For future reference, if you wanna win, include bane dmg and detailed proc information in your comparison. Magic focus matters, but include WHY it matters (I have 3 magic based procs vs other guy's 1 magic based proc and he has no focus for his other procs but I have focus effects for all my procs and they do xxx dmg and go off 12% of the time) etc. It really matters. Why does Dimmi's life tap mastery tome matter at all? Because he has at least 4 life-tap based procs (plus one clicky) that go off ALL THE DAMN TIME and it has an honest effect on DPS and survivability. These things are important. I saw no mention of worn acumen (even if it's a tie, it's worth mentioning) or proc-analysis focus effects. Having an elemental or undead based proc item in your ammo slot doesn't carry NEAR the wieght even a sraen banner does. Haste pretty much doesn't matter at this point, and tbh i'd give more wieght to an item like caretaker's will because of the high damage having less chance of being mitigated to 0 by DR or AC.
Draeos ur too eager, and it's still too close to call a win imo. Wait for crushing defeat and then skyrocket. Or at least include actual pertinent information and make a solid case for yourself.
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Kasreyn
The Nice GM
focii
His level of STR doesn't do anything with the STR tomes he has done, if i did level 1 of it id get a small bonus, He has no DEX tomes done giving me 30 more dex to add to accuracy, and with my +5 Piercing and +20 1hs he lacks and my +25 backstab to his +15, My accuracy blows his away hard, I have 11% Focus to magic witch effects the proc on galeforce along with affliction enhancement 7 that also effects it, ( 100 point DD, 45 a tic 3 tic, 20% slow -20 MR debuff PBAE), The affliction enhancement also stacks with render, Lets also factor in he is lacking insidious stab both 1 and 2, Giving me a 4% chance over him to land a x4 backstab, Sinister revenge 1 whitch lets me live for 15 seconds after death and increases my dps scaled based on how much of the tome is done up to double? something like that.
As for the attack win sure, but hes not even capped on str to get use of that tome so that's completely moot.
Bit more on Galeforce vs will, PBAE proc that doesn't hurt me in the process, dose mad dps, and slows groups of mobs at a time well magic debuffing them for real slow, and at a 6% proc rate that i have 2 various focus effects that enhance this proc. Suppose i should say something about MR being the most easily debuffed resist on a mob and to include in that that hurricane stacks with everything for more debuffing.
Sure caretaker's will has the same ratio Galeforce does if not resisted and .05 less if resisted, but this is where all my focus for the higher proc rate the better proc my higher haste my 1hs mods and my higher accuracy and str come into play making this about near a wash then you can factor in the stuff below. Digging a bit harder for more numbers, Hurricane is hitting for 219 on the DD and 91 per tic, For a total of 492 damage pre crits and no bard focus/cunning, Threw sai in, siphon life was hitting for 152, and it will do less on him with DI8 at 24% and 6% magic for 30% mod vs my DI7 + 11% for 31%, so you can do the rest of the math but you wanted me to pick it apart so i did.
As for resists, at the tier we are both on tier for (Sanctum and Spires/Abyss) Everything is either unresistable,melee, or stack one resist so retardedly high you would have to either swap or reaug all your main gear that resist to resist it, Making my much higher HP/AC that much more of an asset over his resists, Sure if we ware both still raiding Generals and High chief with a little bit of yclist action id agree but we are not.
On to the ammo proc, When 70% ish of Raid content and 90% of 6man content is flagged Elemental and you have an extra proc that only procs on elementals and is further enhanced by your bane enhancement, yes that tromps a long cooldown clickie.
On to haste, It's not the biggest deal in the world but definitely doesn't help his case to be 3% haste behind me.
I guess yes i didn't mention acumen we both have it so tie, he has +1 more worn bane to humanoid then i do so win him in Tur/Citadel.
Last edit: And my 15% chance to dodge special melee attacks, (Ramp, Flurry, PS, WW, DB) vs his (wild guess hes at 60% into 1) 8%, for even more added survivability. The damage on will vs galeforce has nothing to do with DR/AC and everything to do with the mobs MR.
tl;dr, My focus effects stack better with my wpns/procs, I have higher survivability at our tier, His accuracy doesn't touch mine, and i crush him simply on the fact that i have insidious stab done he does not and my backstab mod is maxxed, then you can add in the rest of it for a clear win.
As for the attack win sure, but hes not even capped on str to get use of that tome so that's completely moot.
Bit more on Galeforce vs will, PBAE proc that doesn't hurt me in the process, dose mad dps, and slows groups of mobs at a time well magic debuffing them for real slow, and at a 6% proc rate that i have 2 various focus effects that enhance this proc. Suppose i should say something about MR being the most easily debuffed resist on a mob and to include in that that hurricane stacks with everything for more debuffing.
Sure caretaker's will has the same ratio Galeforce does if not resisted and .05 less if resisted, but this is where all my focus for the higher proc rate the better proc my higher haste my 1hs mods and my higher accuracy and str come into play making this about near a wash then you can factor in the stuff below. Digging a bit harder for more numbers, Hurricane is hitting for 219 on the DD and 91 per tic, For a total of 492 damage pre crits and no bard focus/cunning, Threw sai in, siphon life was hitting for 152, and it will do less on him with DI8 at 24% and 6% magic for 30% mod vs my DI7 + 11% for 31%, so you can do the rest of the math but you wanted me to pick it apart so i did.
As for resists, at the tier we are both on tier for (Sanctum and Spires/Abyss) Everything is either unresistable,melee, or stack one resist so retardedly high you would have to either swap or reaug all your main gear that resist to resist it, Making my much higher HP/AC that much more of an asset over his resists, Sure if we ware both still raiding Generals and High chief with a little bit of yclist action id agree but we are not.
On to the ammo proc, When 70% ish of Raid content and 90% of 6man content is flagged Elemental and you have an extra proc that only procs on elementals and is further enhanced by your bane enhancement, yes that tromps a long cooldown clickie.
On to haste, It's not the biggest deal in the world but definitely doesn't help his case to be 3% haste behind me.
I guess yes i didn't mention acumen we both have it so tie, he has +1 more worn bane to humanoid then i do so win him in Tur/Citadel.
Last edit: And my 15% chance to dodge special melee attacks, (Ramp, Flurry, PS, WW, DB) vs his (wild guess hes at 60% into 1) 8%, for even more added survivability. The damage on will vs galeforce has nothing to do with DR/AC and everything to do with the mobs MR.
tl;dr, My focus effects stack better with my wpns/procs, I have higher survivability at our tier, His accuracy doesn't touch mine, and i crush him simply on the fact that i have insidious stab done he does not and my backstab mod is maxxed, then you can add in the rest of it for a clear win.
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Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
The biggest thing you are missing is that he has
+100hp
+100AGI
+100DEX
AND WORN RUNSPEED THAT WORKS EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME
Runspeed is invaluable and while I do agree that in general your character is slightly stronger, the runspeed alone would negate it until you have a cleaner dps/survivability pass.
IDK how you are figuring galeforce beats caretakers, I don't know all the numbers on caretakers, but when you get that buff, which is pretty often, you proc lifetap all the time.
Banji also has the clicky on his cloak, which isnt huge, but its a dps bonus you are missing, and can be particularly nice on those events where you have to do a ton of dps in a very smell time.
Bane humanoid is a pretty big deal.
Is that even all his normal gear? Seems weird that he would have bs augs and not cap, but maybe its legit
+100hp
+100AGI
+100DEX
AND WORN RUNSPEED THAT WORKS EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME
Runspeed is invaluable and while I do agree that in general your character is slightly stronger, the runspeed alone would negate it until you have a cleaner dps/survivability pass.
IDK how you are figuring galeforce beats caretakers, I don't know all the numbers on caretakers, but when you get that buff, which is pretty often, you proc lifetap all the time.
Banji also has the clicky on his cloak, which isnt huge, but its a dps bonus you are missing, and can be particularly nice on those events where you have to do a ton of dps in a very smell time.
Bane humanoid is a pretty big deal.
Is that even all his normal gear? Seems weird that he would have bs augs and not cap, but maybe its legit
Not saying galeforce beats will just making a comparison like dimmi had asked for, but that the rest of it more then makes up for it with my survivability, and the whole x4 backstab hes missing is kinda HUGE, didn't we talk about how insidious stabs change my parses from 800-900 to over 1k like earlier today?
Dimmi
Dalayan Elder
over 1k parses was almost commonplace over a year ago with render and caretaker's, even with sihk's hidden hand and caretaker's (shameless marza plug, best weapon combo ever imo just b/c slapping things with 2 40 delay weapons made me feel macho) without any dps oriented rogue class tomes. The thing about rogue top 5 is: rogues DPS, and that's pretty much it, so to advance you need clear advantages. If I took a REALLY CLOSE look it might be a pass, but not by much....but I don't run the top 5 so my opinion really isn't worth all that much.
Rogues aren't really all that reliant on a lot of things to change their DPS. It's pretty much a matter of weapons and their delays and procs, and certain tomes are HUGE (codex of power #1). As for Dimmi comparisons, I haven't logged him in personally in like a year or something, idr. His gear looks about where it should be aside from having either render or sihk's in primary and caretaker's in secondary and a searfire in his shoulders b/c i'm a baller like that. Not gonna log him in and change it to keep a top 5 spot on a toon that hasn't been active in over a year so yeah gz 1st guy to pass him!
Also yeah it's wierd Banji doesn't have his +Backstab capped atm, but that's so easy to fix at this point it really isn't even relevant. I mean it IS b/c it's not ON fomelo but yeah. Plus that ring of idk what it does that isn't augged (and it may have been this way for some time)
A side note on caretaker's, the proc is amazing, is up pretty much every fight all all fight long, and idr what the proc rate is on the lifetaps but it's crazy and the weapon's awesome and it's basically +40 or 45 (idr how much) atk banji has access to that draeos doesn't yet.
tl;dr I'd still say draeos COULD be a pass based on hp maybe or something like that, but his saves are absolute ass to more than make up for it (+15 to a resist is worth WAY WAY WAY more than +15 hp any day). doing some more DPS related tomes would make it a much easier decision, but i'm going to poop on the chest of his DPS arguement. Caretaker's will is vastly superior to galeforce DPS wise, nobody brings rogues for utility (tried that arguement to get myself a tash eye, didn't work!)
REALLY tl;dr b/c i'm bad at this: At best their DPS is equal right now so it's draeos's 322 hp vs banji's 54.4 overall average resists. something very small would make a clear, definate win. i'd probly say sure draeos is a pass based on tomes at this point idk. i'm really hungover right now and wouldn't even be out of bed if my cousin hadn't woke me up with a text message where he took a picture of some retarded goddamn spider he found on his desk doing homework or some crap.
Rogues aren't really all that reliant on a lot of things to change their DPS. It's pretty much a matter of weapons and their delays and procs, and certain tomes are HUGE (codex of power #1). As for Dimmi comparisons, I haven't logged him in personally in like a year or something, idr. His gear looks about where it should be aside from having either render or sihk's in primary and caretaker's in secondary and a searfire in his shoulders b/c i'm a baller like that. Not gonna log him in and change it to keep a top 5 spot on a toon that hasn't been active in over a year so yeah gz 1st guy to pass him!
Also yeah it's wierd Banji doesn't have his +Backstab capped atm, but that's so easy to fix at this point it really isn't even relevant. I mean it IS b/c it's not ON fomelo but yeah. Plus that ring of idk what it does that isn't augged (and it may have been this way for some time)
A side note on caretaker's, the proc is amazing, is up pretty much every fight all all fight long, and idr what the proc rate is on the lifetaps but it's crazy and the weapon's awesome and it's basically +40 or 45 (idr how much) atk banji has access to that draeos doesn't yet.
tl;dr I'd still say draeos COULD be a pass based on hp maybe or something like that, but his saves are absolute ass to more than make up for it (+15 to a resist is worth WAY WAY WAY more than +15 hp any day). doing some more DPS related tomes would make it a much easier decision, but i'm going to poop on the chest of his DPS arguement. Caretaker's will is vastly superior to galeforce DPS wise, nobody brings rogues for utility (tried that arguement to get myself a tash eye, didn't work!)
REALLY tl;dr b/c i'm bad at this: At best their DPS is equal right now so it's draeos's 322 hp vs banji's 54.4 overall average resists. something very small would make a clear, definate win. i'd probly say sure draeos is a pass based on tomes at this point idk. i'm really hungover right now and wouldn't even be out of bed if my cousin hadn't woke me up with a text message where he took a picture of some retarded goddamn spider he found on his desk doing homework or some crap.
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