Class Rankings

Silosobi said:
I've always personally liked the idea of warriors doing more dps. Give them a dps stance, that is like -50%AC, +25% Overhaste, +Tripple Attacks maybe. If they could dps at the lower range of real dps classes while NOT tanking, but retain the ability to switch stances and take over tanking when needed, it would be a lot easier fitting them into raids.

As things are now, on 95% of content I'd prefer a Pally+SK as my raid tanks. Most content only requires 1-2 tanks, and when you only need one tank, the Pally can go healer mode and be a really effective healer. The SK can help FD pulling, do decent dps, give group mana regen, etc. The warrior's only role is tanking, so if you don't have mobs dishing out massive amounts of meele damage, the knights are just better.

With all this said, warriors are not weak IMO. They just aren't as desirable as knights on most content. Hell, they could be vastly improved by just changing a few of their abilities. Turn NOW into a caster version of Finish Him, Up the heal % on Bloodlust, and remove its cooldown/maybe make it stack on itself, so if a warrior wants to focus on self healing they can just mash that over and over and ignore other abilities, add some innate dps bonuses and more -tanking to aggressive stance so they can become like 75% of a dps, and warriors would be on-par with knights IMO.

They can never have as much utility as the knights, because they DO mitigate damage better, and that's a big deal on certain fights, but they could use some more utility, and dps/self healing, to make them more viable in a 6man or offtank situations.
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I think warrior dps is fine where it is. I think some of the abilities could use minor tweaks maybe reduce some of the cooldowns. I really like the now as is. It is great when you know a heal is being cast but will not land in time. It is also really good for caster curse. I think bloodlust would be a pretty cool tome line. at tome 4 make it 100% innate and then have the abiity double the effectiveness of it or something cool.
 
Moraelintz said:
I think warrior dps is fine where it is. I think some of the abilities could use minor tweaks maybe reduce some of the cooldowns. I really like the now as is. It is great when you know a heal is being cast but will not land in time. It is also really good for caster curse. I think bloodlust would be a pretty cool tome line. at tome 4 make it 100% innate and then have the abiity double the effectiveness of it or something cool.
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NOW is neat... but very few spells are long enough cast time to really attempt to coordinate with it. I also just think the cost and cooldown are really oddly high for an ability that doesn't seem that powerful... I havn't raided with warriors a ton, but when I did, I don't think I ever saw this ability used... Reduce it to a more average cost, with maybe a 30s cooldown, and it would be useful. It is neat as an oh-shit button, when the warrior is at <10%hp, but a heal needs to be casting, and the other knights have instant large self heals that don't rely on anyone else.

I do agree warriors could be brought up to a better place with some relatively small tweaks to the cool system they already have. When it was first implimented, it was probably too good. I remember a warrior tanking and doing like 1300 dps, but since all the changes and nerfs to a certain weapon, I have not seen a warrior over 500dps, when SKs can do 800, and Clerics can do 400. I think an end game warrior would be more appropriate in the ~500 range tanking, but up towards 800 when just dpsing (these numbers are for T13 raid characters, obviously it would scale down at lower tiers).
 
Once i played a stryda on sorrow and we killed it and then i said never again. After that we have used a knight everytime.
 
The Mystical Order guildchat was pretty clear with me the other day that warriors are great and I am in fact terrible at this game so obviously warriors are fine
 
I very lazily copied the OP and moved a few things around, corrected some glaring errors, and dropped a few truth bombs.

Shit tier:

Monk: You are broken in 2.5 and suck the worst.
Paladin: I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries.

Low Tier:

Druid: The nature-loving heal class brings a ton of solo/questing utility to the table, and has some potent and efficient healing, but they are the lowest dps of the healers, and the 6 second tic system their HOTs rely on results in a lot of wasted heals, especially in the raid game... [if only there was some mechanic for HOT overheals]

Rogue: I feel a bit weird putting rogues here, since they are one of best dps classes in the game, but they are also probably the most one dimensional class in the game, and get shut down by fight mechanics more often than others. There is tons of content where rogues excel, but even then they don't bring anything to the table other than dps.

Magician*: Magicians are the pet masters. They do some solid spell dps as well, and most raids will be happy to have one magician along for their DS and mod rods. They end up with a lower rank for a similar reason to rogues, in that their dps is shut down by more mechanics than most other classes, and their pet(s) can die in AE situations. Rains are locked into a single location, take forever to cast, and damage the mage if they are forced on top of them. This renders the mage quite low dps on some fights.


Mid Tier:

Warrior: The pure meele tank class, that received a very cool new ability system, is not to be underestimated, their mitigation is the best in the game and their abilities allow for some dynamic play, but when you compare them to the other two tank classes, they just don't bring as much to the table in most situations.

Wizard: The king of magical burst damage has a lot of growing pains, with lower sustained damage than others(until high tiers/mana pool), and suffers greatly on content with elemental resistances. Wizards used to be much stronger, but changes to the vah back, channeling, and AOD impacted wizards significantly more than any other class. Wizards tend to be benefit more from gear/exp more than most others, and a super maxed out high end wizard might slip into the High Tier, but more generally they are mid tier right now.

Shaman: Shamans are a solid class throughout the game. They have absurd mana regen, and can put out solid single target healing, single target dps, or both. They are a premier 6 man member through most of the game for their ability to heal a tank for days on end. They also have some of the best debuffs in the game, although these are no where near as important as they were on live.

[Beastlord? Probably. Sure, you're mid tier now.]

High Tier:

Necromancer: The evil/undead caster class. They lost festering curse a while ago, and gained significant damage and efficiency to some of their DOTs. This freed them from being cooldown and single target reliant, and allowed them to remain a top tier dps at all stages of the game. They have huge mana regen, can put out the most efficient caster dps in the game, using spells with massive resist adjusts leaving them viable on content other casters just fail. On top of all this, necromancers having amazing utility, with the second best mez in the game, as well as FD and rez for wipe recovery, and to top it all off they have lifetaps, granting more survivability than pretty much any other dps.

Ranger: Masters of the bow, rangers consistently parse among the top, and their dps is shut down probably less often than any other class. They do meele damage from longer range than any caster can nuke. On top of this they share the throne with monks for "best off tank". The best track in the game never hurts. Rangers dont bring nearly the same utility as the other top tier dps classes, but their ability to tank on top of being a top level ranged dps earns them a spot. [probably deserve your own tier, demi-god tier of something]

Bard: This song singing, flute playing, not-so-tanky plate class is the king of utility among dps classes. They get to pick any two from a large variety of highly useful and situational buffs, and apply them (in most cases) to the entire raid. They also get nice damage/debuff songs, duel wield weapons, the highest damage nuke in the game (and bonus damage to targets below 15%, when most "burn phases" are). Did I forget to mention they have a meele immune stance for when a tank falls over, and mez spells? When most people are talking about an "ideal raid setup" bard is the class most people would want two of over anyone else. Most of their abilities don't even stack, they just have so much powerful/useful stuff, that its always nice to have two of them around.

Shadow Knight: For a long time Shadow Knights were the king of tanks, but Pally agro changes allowed them to contest that title, and at this point it really just depends on what content you are doing as to which tank is best. SKs retain the fastest and strongest single target agro in the game, and their Runic: Veil can allow them to gain easy and immediate agro on any number of mobs that the rest of the group/raid is fighting. [like, way better than Paladin AoE if you do it right which is supposed to be their shtick the poor jerks] Surprisingly, SKs can actually rival pally self healing through their life taps, and stances. Shadow knights are the best dps among tanks, which is largely spell/range based, and fast casting, so it can be used while kiting. On top of all this, SKs have some nice utility, with FD, sublimate soul, pet sacrifices, and other mechanics.

God Tier:

Enchanter: Enchanters are in a bit of a weird spot. They are generally mediocre or bad at soloing, duoing, exping, and even doing 6 man content(unless you tailor the group around them), but holy shit, does this class excel at raids. Their stacking is worse than almost any other class, yet its still usually worth bringing two on a raid. A single enchanter though, provides far more utility than anyone else, and they can add huge dps as well. This effect is most obvious at higher tiers, when mana pools are large, and casters all have archaics/runics. They have the best mana regen buff in the game, the best haste buff in the game, the best mez in the game, awesome slow/debuffs, dampening to reduce raid wide spell damage taken, curses to massively boost dps during burn phases, and boon/somatic/AOD which can be cast on other players to copy some of their dps. They also get charm, which has limited uses, but in certain situations, if an enchanter is diligent, a charmed pet can provide huge dps (and occasionally tanking too). Enchanters aren't *always* super powerful, but in the right situations, a good enchanter is bringing as much value to the raid as 2-3+ other characters combined.

Cleric: No surprise here, clerics are the king of healing classes. It isn't even a contest. Seriously, try to imagine if tanks were as imbalanced as healers how much 100% legitimate bitching you would hear. If you want to be a healer and don't roll a cleric you're doing it wrong.
 
donfolstar3 said:
I very lazily copied the OP and moved a few things around, corrected some glaring errors, and dropped a few truth bombs.

Shit tier:

Monk: You are broken in 2.5 and suck the worst.
Paladin: I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries.

Low Tier:

Druid: The nature-loving heal class brings a ton of solo/questing utility to the table, and has some potent and efficient healing, but they are the lowest dps of the healers, and the 6 second tic system their HOTs rely on results in a lot of wasted heals, especially in the raid game... [if only there was some mechanic for HOT overheals]

Rogue: I feel a bit weird putting rogues here, since they are one of best dps classes in the game, but they are also probably the most one dimensional class in the game, and get shut down by fight mechanics more often than others. There is tons of content where rogues excel, but even then they don't bring anything to the table other than dps.

Magician*: Magicians are the pet masters. They do some solid spell dps as well, and most raids will be happy to have one magician along for their DS and mod rods. They end up with a lower rank for a similar reason to rogues, in that their dps is shut down by more mechanics than most other classes, and their pet(s) can die in AE situations. Rains are locked into a single location, take forever to cast, and damage the mage if they are forced on top of them. This renders the mage quite low dps on some fights.


Mid Tier:

Warrior: The pure meele tank class, that received a very cool new ability system, is not to be underestimated, their mitigation is the best in the game and their abilities allow for some dynamic play, but when you compare them to the other two tank classes, they just don't bring as much to the table in most situations.

Wizard: The king of magical burst damage has a lot of growing pains, with lower sustained damage than others(until high tiers/mana pool), and suffers greatly on content with elemental resistances. Wizards used to be much stronger, but changes to the vah back, channeling, and AOD impacted wizards significantly more than any other class. Wizards tend to be benefit more from gear/exp more than most others, and a super maxed out high end wizard might slip into the High Tier, but more generally they are mid tier right now.

Shaman: Shamans are a solid class throughout the game. They have absurd mana regen, and can put out solid single target healing, single target dps, or both. They are a premier 6 man member through most of the game for their ability to heal a tank for days on end. They also have some of the best debuffs in the game, although these are no where near as important as they were on live.

[Beastlord? Probably. Sure, you're mid tier now.]

High Tier:

Necromancer: The evil/undead caster class. They lost festering curse a while ago, and gained significant damage and efficiency to some of their DOTs. This freed them from being cooldown and single target reliant, and allowed them to remain a top tier dps at all stages of the game. They have huge mana regen, can put out the most efficient caster dps in the game, using spells with massive resist adjusts leaving them viable on content other casters just fail. On top of all this, necromancers having amazing utility, with the second best mez in the game, as well as FD and rez for wipe recovery, and to top it all off they have lifetaps, granting more survivability than pretty much any other dps.

Ranger: Masters of the bow, rangers consistently parse among the top, and their dps is shut down probably less often than any other class. They do meele damage from longer range than any caster can nuke. On top of this they share the throne with monks for "best off tank". The best track in the game never hurts. Rangers dont bring nearly the same utility as the other top tier dps classes, but their ability to tank on top of being a top level ranged dps earns them a spot. [probably deserve your own tier, demi-god tier of something]

Bard: This song singing, flute playing, not-so-tanky plate class is the king of utility among dps classes. They get to pick any two from a large variety of highly useful and situational buffs, and apply them (in most cases) to the entire raid. They also get nice damage/debuff songs, duel wield weapons, the highest damage nuke in the game (and bonus damage to targets below 15%, when most "burn phases" are). Did I forget to mention they have a meele immune stance for when a tank falls over, and mez spells? When most people are talking about an "ideal raid setup" bard is the class most people would want two of over anyone else. Most of their abilities don't even stack, they just have so much powerful/useful stuff, that its always nice to have two of them around.

Shadow Knight: For a long time Shadow Knights were the king of tanks, but Pally agro changes allowed them to contest that title, and at this point it really just depends on what content you are doing as to which tank is best. SKs retain the fastest and strongest single target agro in the game, and their Runic: Veil can allow them to gain easy and immediate agro on any number of mobs that the rest of the group/raid is fighting. [like, way better than Paladin AoE if you do it right which is supposed to be their shtick the poor jerks] Surprisingly, SKs can actually rival pally self healing through their life taps, and stances. Shadow knights are the best dps among tanks, which is largely spell/range based, and fast casting, so it can be used while kiting. On top of all this, SKs have some nice utility, with FD, sublimate soul, pet sacrifices, and other mechanics.

God Tier:

Enchanter: Enchanters are in a bit of a weird spot. They are generally mediocre or bad at soloing, duoing, exping, and even doing 6 man content(unless you tailor the group around them), but holy shit, does this class excel at raids. Their stacking is worse than almost any other class, yet its still usually worth bringing two on a raid. A single enchanter though, provides far more utility than anyone else, and they can add huge dps as well. This effect is most obvious at higher tiers, when mana pools are large, and casters all have archaics/runics. They have the best mana regen buff in the game, the best haste buff in the game, the best mez in the game, awesome slow/debuffs, dampening to reduce raid wide spell damage taken, curses to massively boost dps during burn phases, and boon/somatic/AOD which can be cast on other players to copy some of their dps. They also get charm, which has limited uses, but in certain situations, if an enchanter is diligent, a charmed pet can provide huge dps (and occasionally tanking too). Enchanters aren't *always* super powerful, but in the right situations, a good enchanter is bringing as much value to the raid as 2-3+ other characters combined.

Cleric: No surprise here, clerics are the king of healing classes. It isn't even a contest. Seriously, try to imagine if tanks were as imbalanced as healers how much 100% legitimate bitching you would hear. If you want to be a healer and don't roll a cleric you're doing it wrong.
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Delete this biast post
 
Haenir said:
Don't feel weird, the class could definitely need some love.
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I think with rogues all the pieces are there for the class to thrive, but the game/world itself needs to accommodate them.
More locked doors and meaningful traps for a start. To keep rogues from becoming mandatory maybe Bard skill caps could raise and Mages (in need of love) could get a few ranks of "Summon Key of Opening" that have a few charges of unlock.
Poison making being an ammo slot thing and some of the more basic poisons being useable by other pure melees (also arguably in need of love) to boost overall utility for all three.

Makes targeted AOEs smart like the paladin AOE stun to help out mages/druids and throw in some kind of Druid HOT overheal mechanic* and the three fairly widely agreed on low tier classes would be midtier classes... which I guess would become the new lowtier. Progress!
 
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