Class Rankings
- Thread starter Silosobi
- Start date
Pecannius
Dalayan Elder
Uhhh /s 11 is pretty strong and makes up for the spell mitigation a lot imo, as well as adding utility to the whole raid. It's really hard to test this spell since there's no buff/song icon but in limited testing it works great. When people are grouped up, it's essentially 2% better than the paladin spell mitigation aspect of runic 1 (maybe stacks?), but for the whole raid. Maybe removing the cooldown on /s 11 and increasing the stamina usage could help warriors out?
Otcho
Dalayan Pious Diety
As a filthy knight player who played knights before they were good please issue an apology to my amigos and me. Also like you said outside of the big broke scythe what items are actually designed for warriors instead of some weird balance between them and all the other melee damage outputters. Knights definitely get item favoritism. Never forget when warriors were on equal footing because Divus was good.
sabuti
Dalayan Elder
cornelweezy
Dalayan Elder
What does that even mean, though? I never see warriors even down here in scrub tier. Monks and beastlord needs were/are pretty obvious...how could warriors be buffed besides dps/hate tweaks on their abilities?
A strong groupwide aura that does something might help. Maybe one that is strongly regenerative or mitigates spell & melee damage to the group. Bonus if all that damage gets stored in the warriors sword and unleashed as a terrible blow or something.
edit: also the ability to turn into a really awesome skull, perhaps on fire.
edit: also the ability to turn into a really awesome skull, perhaps on fire.
Otcho
Dalayan Pious Diety
Did warriors ever get riposte problems fixed? I always thought it would be cool if they had bonuses to riposte damage, or chance reduction of it happening to them by the big bad evil guy based on offensive stats or some shit. Hit dragon really hard cus fuck dragon. I cannot remember if the chance to be riposted got normalized or not anymore.
I know every class got shit on by the change to ripostes/proc interaction and have no idea if that actually got fixed either, which would really suck if it didn't.
Also warriors should be able to shape shift into spirit animals specifically sharks and mimic chests. Nothing is better than turning into a shark and unleashing a extra-critical riposte which guarantees a combat proc. please devs.
I know every class got shit on by the change to ripostes/proc interaction and have no idea if that actually got fixed either, which would really suck if it didn't.
Also warriors should be able to shape shift into spirit animals specifically sharks and mimic chests. Nothing is better than turning into a shark and unleashing a extra-critical riposte which guarantees a combat proc. please devs.
sabuti
Dalayan Elder
it means warriors do not have enough hp or mitigation to justify bringing them over a knight to anything. knights have so many oh shit buttons and paladins have such crazy group utility, bringing a warrior to any 6 man is basically carrying them, and nothing even requires a warrior on raids. they're helpless little beings who just take damage a little better. sks can stance life tap with deflux, sublimate soul and spears for like 4k heals, and leech touch. paladins have a ghot way better than clerics, amazing self heals, lay hands and piety if the clr gets behind. warriors have the worst agro (inb4 people saying no way!!!! wars #1!!!!) and cannot do anything on fights that involve moving for the time that they are moving (ie. 4.3 last phase, sks can pull 800 dps and paladins can help heal, whilst warriors run in circles for 2 minutes)
warriors are only the best for exp groups and although they have cool little stances they are the most lackluster tank class.
Moraelintz
Dalayan Elder
You have a very limited viewpoint as to whom you have played with and what relation they are/have been amongst others.
Warriors are pretty amazing overall. They have the best mitigation and they too have some oh shit buttons, see enrage, ae taunt, resil, insta cast spells button, mellee dodge, etc. they are not tied to mana issues so longer fights are better for them.
Also not all sks push good dps only the top end ones. Sk dps is highly dependent on spells. So more magic focus and damage increment the more dos a dude can do.
I think the bigger issue is that later I the game content went away from this mob hits hard and fast and does an ae every xx seconds, to strategy type fights where the mobs don't hit as hard so a warrior is not as needed. Combine this with having the other classes being top end and farming 99% of all current content you can use a 'weaker' tank and it's not as big of an issue because the healers have more mana/crit/ft and the dps is higher than when originally doing and learning most fights.
Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
I remember solo healing Forest Gloom with Cella & Conduit. That ruled.
Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
Also Zurkka is, and forever will be, on a tier of his own (on top of troll mountain).
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
Yeah, half the warrior issue is just the content moving away from tank and spank raid mobs. Doing Corefire or Saitha on tier, you really do notice warrior's strengths (assuming you have equally geared warriors and Knights available).
I could see warriors giving a flat 6% mitigation to everything to group members, and/or a stance that lets them heal for 30-50% of the damage they deal to make them more desirable in the situations they are currently weak, but I don't know how likely that is since they still have a niche, even if it's pretty limited.
Those two changes would bring them on par with other tanks though IMO.
I could see warriors giving a flat 6% mitigation to everything to group members, and/or a stance that lets them heal for 30-50% of the damage they deal to make them more desirable in the situations they are currently weak, but I don't know how likely that is since they still have a niche, even if it's pretty limited.
Those two changes would bring them on par with other tanks though IMO.
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
bloodlust should be an innate thing for warriors then they should be able to spend stamina to double that. currently using bloodlust is just a "hit on cooldown" thing for more aggro/self healing that really has 0 thought into using it. compare this to SK lifetaps (dont want to cast when a heal is landing, or when you need to move, mana cost etc) and same w/ paladin heals. Another issue is that overgeared warriors will always require more healing than overgeared knights due to their inferior self healing. Warriors shine on specific raid mobs throughout the tiers, but they just dont have the tools the other tanks do.
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
10% for 6 seconds, or 8% for 24 seconds with a HoT component. IDK what the /s 11 cooldown is, but unless it is 0 it is a pretty safe bet to say the paladin r1 is superior in a majority of situations
Pecannius
Dalayan Elder
The warrior one is for the whole raid compared to the paladin which is just group (which isn't relevant for 6-mans obviously) but it's still something in a raid setting. Obviously the paladin one is still better, that's why I was suggesting lowering the cooldown to give warriors some utility comparable to a paladin.
Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
Make warriors do significantly more DPS when tanking via riposte overhaul, problem solved. You'd still want a Paladin for all the nice Paladin things but all the SKs can go #SADIDA now. Everyone is happy.
Otcho
Dalayan Pious Diety
Wow please credit me idea thief.
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
I've always personally liked the idea of warriors doing more dps. Give them a dps stance, that is like -50%AC, +25% Overhaste, +Tripple Attacks maybe. If they could dps at the lower range of real dps classes while NOT tanking, but retain the ability to switch stances and take over tanking when needed, it would be a lot easier fitting them into raids.
As things are now, on 95% of content I'd prefer a Pally+SK as my raid tanks. Most content only requires 1-2 tanks, and when you only need one tank, the Pally can go healer mode and be a really effective healer. The SK can help FD pulling, do decent dps, give group mana regen, etc. The warrior's only role is tanking, so if you don't have mobs dishing out massive amounts of meele damage, the knights are just better.
With all this said, warriors are not weak IMO. They just aren't as desirable as knights on most content. Hell, they could be vastly improved by just changing a few of their abilities. Turn NOW into a caster version of Finish Him, Up the heal % on Bloodlust, and remove its cooldown/maybe make it stack on itself, so if a warrior wants to focus on self healing they can just mash that over and over and ignore other abilities, add some innate dps bonuses and more -tanking to aggressive stance so they can become like 75% of a dps, and warriors would be on-par with knights IMO.
They can never have as much utility as the knights, because they DO mitigate damage better, and that's a big deal on certain fights, but they could use some more utility, and dps/self healing, to make them more viable in a 6man or offtank situations.
As things are now, on 95% of content I'd prefer a Pally+SK as my raid tanks. Most content only requires 1-2 tanks, and when you only need one tank, the Pally can go healer mode and be a really effective healer. The SK can help FD pulling, do decent dps, give group mana regen, etc. The warrior's only role is tanking, so if you don't have mobs dishing out massive amounts of meele damage, the knights are just better.
With all this said, warriors are not weak IMO. They just aren't as desirable as knights on most content. Hell, they could be vastly improved by just changing a few of their abilities. Turn NOW into a caster version of Finish Him, Up the heal % on Bloodlust, and remove its cooldown/maybe make it stack on itself, so if a warrior wants to focus on self healing they can just mash that over and over and ignore other abilities, add some innate dps bonuses and more -tanking to aggressive stance so they can become like 75% of a dps, and warriors would be on-par with knights IMO.
They can never have as much utility as the knights, because they DO mitigate damage better, and that's a big deal on certain fights, but they could use some more utility, and dps/self healing, to make them more viable in a 6man or offtank situations.