Class Rankings

cornelweezy said:
Do you end game guys even raid with warriors? The amount of material on these forums and on the wiki explaining how to play warriors effectively is like 1/100th what's available for knights. I'm convinced you guys don't raid with Beastlords at all, which is why that class has fallen on such hard times. Correct me if i'm wrong.
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If I had things my way in my perfect raid world I dont think I would raid with a Warrior, Beastlord, or a Druid but I am not the guy who decides that and is generally an unrealistic thing because of lack of dudes
 
Rotating dampening, double curses, more boons. Two enchanters carry their weight and if there were two competent enchanters showing up to raids I'd much rather have them over some other dps. But that doesn't happen to often sadly.
 
Moraelintz said:
I would have a warrior and a druid but definitely no beastlords.
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A single bst to cast cunning is worth the raid slot. A druid offers nothing additional you cant prebuff before raid other than archiac. You only need 3 clerics and a shaman to heal any fight beaten so druid is wasting a slot. Pally/sk duo tanks is by far my most favorite tank lineup for current content. Nothing hits hard enough to require a warrior to tank it so the almost limitless amount of ways for a pally/sk to self heal instead of die is much more favorable imo.
 
Lleoc said:
You only need 3 clerics and a shaman to heal any fight beaten so druid is wasting a slot.
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You could also beat everything with no clerics... but what you want is the setup that gives the best chance at winning, and for that I'm gonna include a druid for most things. On fights where there is consistent group damage, druid group hots can definitely allow the class to carry their weight.

I agree that I would rather just have Pally/SK on most the content you don't need 3 tanks for. (which is 95% of content) That is more specific to T13 though, where fights are more about adds/AE/magic damage, instead of just massive meele rounds.. For things like Corefire, or Saitha, doing it on tier, I would much rather have a warrior tanking over a knight.
 
A second shaman is a stronger healer than a druid. No current content needs ghots and if you want them so badly just have the pally ghot 2 groups and the tank group wont need one. This is how we raided in handlebar and it is much much easier to tank heal with 2 shamans and I've finished fights with like 80m due to clickies + shamans in group lol.
 
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Hooray, someone revisited the old Cinn thread. Though a little less truthiness.

Dinadass makes a good point (go figure) about how much classes vary over the tiers. Making note of how much mages change but not other classes is misleading. At least a super end game list and pre-that list would be a lot more informative to new players.

Having SK and Paladins on the same tier is just crazy talk. CRAZY TALK! Even the descriptions in the OP make that really obvious. The utility, self healing, and better all around aggro/mitigation/pulling/existing that a SK does makes putting those two next to each other crazy talk.

You should mention under Druid that you cannot throw a stick without hitting two of them. That certainly doesn't help with making the class appealing.

Stick Cleric on God tier. You know it's the truth. Even if druids can substitute out for them sort of sometimes Clerics are just so amazingly awesome at what they do. Everybody loves them, always and forever. SK can go with them too since being next to Paladins is crazy talk.

I think Shamans might be undervalued too. Other than debuffs/slows being meh that description sounds like a high tier class because they are.
 
donfolstar3 said:
Having SK and Paladins on the same tier is just crazy talk. CRAZY TALK! Even the descriptions in the OP make that really obvious. The utility, self healing, and better all around aggro/mitigation/pulling/existing that a SK does makes putting those two next to each other crazy talk.
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a high tier paladin is over powered, especially for 6 mans. they have better agro than an sk aside from veil, if played properly. also sks do not have more mitigation than paladins, that's only said because they have a shitty stance that no one ever uses that gives them more mitigation. so I would not jump the gun at saying putting paladins and sks in the same tier is crazy talk
 
Yeah... its all really subjective and varies a lot per tier and specific content.

Right now, I feel like Paladins are stronger than SKs. We are in the age of 1 cleric healing 6 man content, and the paladin POTL and Hots make that sooo much smoother. There are at least two fights where a paladin is almost required. And just on general raiding, paladins are amazing tanks, and then they get to keep a group hotted, WITH SPELL MITIGATION. That saves so much cleric mana, which massively outstrips any mitigation or self healing SKs have. SKs bring some dps to the table, which is nice, but in most situations I would rather have the pally hots and potl.


Combined: Warchief Rujik Moktar on 3/29/2015 in 456sec

Total
--- DMG: 6419469 (100%) @ 14078 dps (14078 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 2074584 @4590dps

Solosolki + pets
--- DMG: 703233 (10.95%) @ 1566 dps (1542 sdps)

Aiesha
--- DMG: 678073 (10.56%) @ 1517 dps (1487 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 89263 @261dps

Moraelin
--- DMG: 350969 (5.47%) @ 775 dps (770 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 142940 @339dps

I will post this little piece of a parse, which shows myself, and Moarelin being pretty badass, but this is a very speicific fight, that offers a buff to two players dps. Also this is an enchanter, who has to mez a bunch of mobs for 30% of the fight, dampening, curse, etc and did NOT get the super dps buff Moraelin and Solosolki did. This is why they are the God-Mode class.
 
Paladin bad assedness is highly dependent on tier and tomes. Low tier sees SKs in a much better position imo. My paladin is just starting to get to a point that he is getting powerful. Runic 1 is strong and tomes make a huge difference l.
 
sabuti said:
a high tier paladin is over powered, especially for 6 mans. they have better agro than an sk aside from veil, if played properly.
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This is really only true once they have a Jyre... Runic 2 doubles the hate that thing generates, so of course they make retarded aggro using that. Take any other 2 comparable SK or PLD and the SK will 100% hold better aggro.
 
Silosobi said:
Aiesha
--- DMG: 678073 (10.56%) @ 1517 dps (1487 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 89263 @261dps
Also this is an enchanter, who has to mez a bunch of mobs for 30% of the fight, dampening, curse, etc and did NOT get the super dps buff Moraelin and Solosolki did. This is why they are the God-Mode class.
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only 1500 DPS when you have 14k raid dps? who is this shitter?
 
Swiftur said:
This is really only true once they have a Jyre... Runic 2 doubles the hate that thing generates, so of course they make retarded aggro using that. Take any other 2 comparable SK or PLD and the SK will 100% hold better aggro.
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It is not true to require a jyre. It just makes it much easier. It is the runic 2 which makes them viable for aggro generation with any weapon.
 
Bangs tanked every boss that's been killed before a jyre with no aggro problems. Dps just cannot go balls out from the start.
 
Moraelintz said:
Bangs tanked every boss that's been killed before a jyre with no aggro problems. Dps just cannot go balls out from the start.
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bango also did this without that one patch that buffed paladin aggro crazy hard, and at one point, with a weapon that procced a concuss
 
why didn't you put zurkka in high tier. Do you dislike zurkka you shitbag. There are also only two actual paladins in this game and everybody else is a fraudulent yet glorified warrior so they should just be removed from the list entirely.
 
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Warriors are in a weird spot balancing wise vs. the paladin and the SK. The paladin and SK both have many serious situational advantages, and don't give up much for them. In the early days of live EQ (perhaps a strange comparison but bear with me), Paladins and Shadowknights had to choose between tanking gear and casting gear, weighing the advantages and disadvantages of both. SoD has 1 size fits all armor, with big int/wis on it. Essentially, the knights get the same gear as warriors but it also has huge casting stats. Couple that with the generally stronger-than-tier items that are knight only, and you have basically thrown away what disadvantages knights could have. Warriors do lots of cool stuff and have the intangible "it" factor, but knights are basically a 95% warrior 40% cleric (paladin) or 95% warrior 55% awesome (sk). Paladin healing is too strong in general as a mechanic on both 6 man fights and in raids, and the same for SK taps/aggro/utility.


tl, dr: other than having to live forever with the shameful, gross embarrassment of being a knight, knights are too strong when compared to the warrior class.
 
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I actually really like warriors, and they have their place In the game. The biggest thing holding warriors back at the current high tiers is that very few fights are balanced around meele damage. Warriors are still the king of mitigation, but most of the games harder fights focus around spell damage, kiting, etc. if a mob has killer meele damage, it limits how many other damage sources or mechanics you can have, since all the healers are focused on tank damage. Older EQ, and even earlier shards raid tiers had simpler fights, where often the biggest challenge was healing the tank, and in those cases warriors strengths are really noticed. When you reduce tank meele hits in trade for group damage and kiting and stuff, the weakness of Knights is eliminated, and there isn't much reason to use a warrior instead.
 
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