I think I'm gonna steal this quote and just start posting it in every thread I don't like, lol....
(Maybe just quit clicking on it if things didn't go your way?)
Brainstorming
- Thread starter ynnear
- Start date
I think I'm gonna steal this quote and just start posting it in every thread I don't like, lol....
(Maybe just quit clicking on it if things didn't go your way?)
@vistachiri - Come on now, how can you play SoD and NOT get some nostalgic feelings? (Unless you never played EQ pre-PoP, then I can understand)
Best idea and easy to implement - Double (or bonus) exp weekend with a social media driven account drive. It worked really well before - like a year ago? I remember we had quite the spike in population.
More newbie-targeted stuff - A new zone (like cesspits), Option to skip the tutorial and get straight into the game, LFG window so you can find a group easier, some kind of message in Dalayan Beginners guild that tells us when a new player just logged in (old MUD's used to do this and then everyone would say hi or welcome that person to the game / answer questions), and yea, like earlier post said - some newbie events, or GM-driven events to make the game more dynamic.
Best idea and easy to implement - Double (or bonus) exp weekend with a social media driven account drive. It worked really well before - like a year ago? I remember we had quite the spike in population.
More newbie-targeted stuff - A new zone (like cesspits), Option to skip the tutorial and get straight into the game, LFG window so you can find a group easier, some kind of message in Dalayan Beginners guild that tells us when a new player just logged in (old MUD's used to do this and then everyone would say hi or welcome that person to the game / answer questions), and yea, like earlier post said - some newbie events, or GM-driven events to make the game more dynamic.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
I didn't, and I'm by no means unique in that respect. I wouldn't be surprised if half the server hadn't played original EQ.
? Only in a casual group is that even remotely possible. But the point of this thread was raids, and on raids, if someone is AFK or needs to med or whatever, then you have to wait for them. And it's an issue with soloing too.
What are you talking about there? It was kinda like that in WoW, from what I can remember, but it's not like that in SoD at all, and it's not like that in GW2 either, and they are the only two games mentioned in this thread I think.
GW2 is about as far from single player as it gets.
Something Old Something New...
So where to even start...
Ok, I am one of those very old-time EQ1 players.
-- Corpse Runs! I remember these well! When you really blew it and a CR happened...things got Really Real, quickly. Some folks would simply log out right there. Others would roll up their sleves.. CR Gear had a meaning for those of us who were Pack Rats
You had to always be thinking about "Backup Gear"... Am I suggesting CR's again? Hell I don't know! But one thing for sure, if you wiped deep down in the hole you really puckered up...
-- Clerics! My main was a cleric on live. Probably the dullest, most screwed over class in all of EQ-dom. There is a reason Live had less and less Real Clerics, even after Vow of Valor spell lines. I must admit the Vow line of spells DID help me get more into playing my cleric again. Especially when boxing my alt warrior. Clerics need some love for sure as a class. The thing is, that can be fairly hard to balance in. IMO put in Vow of Valor series spells, then revamp / add to their ability to DPS on undead. These two things would help Solo, Group, and Raid clerics by making them a good bit more Inter Active and Fun to play. Am I suggesting you make them Utterly Kick ass? No. Mainly they just need to have more ability from down low up to 65 basic to Solo / Duo - Group and have some actual fun while doing so!
-- Druids ... my initial / main toon here on SoD is a Druid.. Coolish class. Sort of. You need to add a lot more into their Ports System to make the "Taxi Service" really "Pay Off" Having thought about it quite a lot, perhaps druids could have their Charm Lines be altered so where that Animals are strictly short term (in a fight) charms, while Plant Mobs could be more like a Dire Charm, and NOT 65+++++ Only Make it interesting all the way up from 1 to 65! Kind of semi like Necros...sorta...only not really!
-- Necro: Mana Pump needs to be back in and be added-to, to truly PISS OFF raid necros I joke...sort of. A necro should be capable of Real Healing *IF* the player is truly a kick ass individual, kind of like it once sorta was a very long time ago. A necro also needs to be able to DPS like nobodies business in a raid setup... assuming Raid Leader did not just "tap" the necro for Pump Duty... The thing I used to like about my necro on live was where he could go, and what he could do. Nearly endless possibilities. Now, when I say DPS I do not mean to make them even more uber than they once were. I will be the first to say out loud ... balancing out a necro for what it once *WAS* would take some real head scratching when adjusting / adding spell lines and adjusting PETS / Dire Pets... A necro should have to Think Damn Hard about what pet to have up, for what set of cirsumstances. "Do I summon my uber Hit Point Pet so I can "Steal His Life to Heal party members" while also Tapping the Mob etc..? Do I get my Rogue up so I can solo Kite for a good DPS add in? Just ideas, feel free to flame the pee-water out of me!
-- In truth I have quite a few ideas on Class... But actually sitting down and doing them is Damnably hard! For those of you who have never "dev'd" your own EMU...trust me there are *GOOD* reasons EQ1 had so many Knee-Jerk "Class Nerfs / re-balances"! It is damn hard to wrap your head around the finer points! Easy as hell to just "say" = "Make It So".
One Emu I was on had an NPC who would set your level back to where ever you "needed" to be. This is interesting because certain quests required what would other wise be "green kills" or impossible kills. Vox / Nagafen for instance. Instead of having to go back and do greens, you would de-level and go do it. This required Back Up / ALT Gear! So, you were always thinking very hard on how to "twink yourself" when a de-level was needed. You could go exp with new friends as well this way, while still playing your main. It added in a dimension of play that made you think, but in good ways.
Ok, so flame away! I have my Gnomex on...
So where to even start...
Ok, I am one of those very old-time EQ1 players.
-- Corpse Runs! I remember these well! When you really blew it and a CR happened...things got Really Real, quickly. Some folks would simply log out right there. Others would roll up their sleves.. CR Gear had a meaning for those of us who were Pack Rats
You had to always be thinking about "Backup Gear"... Am I suggesting CR's again? Hell I don't know! But one thing for sure, if you wiped deep down in the hole you really puckered up...-- Clerics! My main was a cleric on live. Probably the dullest, most screwed over class in all of EQ-dom. There is a reason Live had less and less Real Clerics, even after Vow of Valor spell lines. I must admit the Vow line of spells DID help me get more into playing my cleric again. Especially when boxing my alt warrior. Clerics need some love for sure as a class. The thing is, that can be fairly hard to balance in. IMO put in Vow of Valor series spells, then revamp / add to their ability to DPS on undead. These two things would help Solo, Group, and Raid clerics by making them a good bit more Inter Active and Fun to play. Am I suggesting you make them Utterly Kick ass? No. Mainly they just need to have more ability from down low up to 65 basic to Solo / Duo - Group and have some actual fun while doing so!
-- Druids ... my initial / main toon here on SoD is a Druid..
Coolish class. Sort of. You need to add a lot more into their Ports System to make the "Taxi Service" really "Pay Off" Having thought about it quite a lot, perhaps druids could have their Charm Lines be altered so where that Animals are strictly short term (in a fight) charms, while Plant Mobs could be more like a Dire Charm, and NOT 65+++++ Only Make it interesting all the way up from 1 to 65! Kind of semi like Necros...sorta...only not really! -- Necro: Mana Pump needs to be back in and be added-to, to truly PISS OFF raid necros
I joke...sort of. A necro should be capable of Real Healing *IF* the player is truly a kick ass individual, kind of like it once sorta was a very long time ago. A necro also needs to be able to DPS like nobodies business in a raid setup... assuming Raid Leader did not just "tap" the necro for Pump Duty... The thing I used to like about my necro on live was where he could go, and what he could do. Nearly endless possibilities. Now, when I say DPS I do not mean to make them even more uber than they once were. I will be the first to say out loud ... balancing out a necro for what it once *WAS* would take some real head scratching when adjusting / adding spell lines and adjusting PETS / Dire Pets... A necro should have to Think Damn Hard about what pet to have up, for what set of cirsumstances. "Do I summon my uber Hit Point Pet so I can "Steal His Life to Heal party members" while also Tapping the Mob etc..? Do I get my Rogue up so I can solo Kite for a good DPS add in? Just ideas, feel free to flame the pee-water out of me!-- In truth I have quite a few ideas on Class... But actually sitting down and doing them is Damnably hard! For those of you who have never "dev'd" your own EMU...trust me there are *GOOD* reasons EQ1 had so many Knee-Jerk "Class Nerfs / re-balances"! It is damn hard to wrap your head around the finer points! Easy as hell to just "say" = "Make It So".
One Emu I was on had an NPC who would set your level back to where ever you "needed" to be. This is interesting because certain quests required what would other wise be "green kills" or impossible kills. Vox / Nagafen for instance. Instead of having to go back and do greens, you would de-level and go do it. This required Back Up / ALT Gear!
So, you were always thinking very hard on how to "twink yourself" when a de-level was needed. You could go exp with new friends as well this way, while still playing your main. It added in a dimension of play that made you think, but in good ways.Ok, so flame away! I have my Gnomex on...
lithiumbat
Dalayan Beginner
So where to even start...
Ok, I am one of those very old-time EQ1 players.
-- Corpse Runs! I remember these well! When you really blew it and a CR happened...things got Really Real, quickly. Some folks would simply log out right there. Others would roll up their sleves.. CR Gear had a meaning for those of us who were Pack Rats
I am not a fan of CR's, but at the same time it did add a certain level of fun to the game... even if it was an irritating kind of fun.
The Vow line of spells was definitely a cool addition, and certainly more useful at soloing and small groups. SoD you do get the Ancient Hammer of the Gods and combined with the Divine Rage AA and Spell Casting Fury AA's you can get some mad critical DD procs. Though it doesn't help the rise to 65 since it requires alot of prereq AAs and an ancient spell scroll.
I agree though, overall clerics are at the moment not designed for any manner of soloing which given the difficulty in finding groups in general on SoD this makes the class less than desirable to have as a main. I up vote the addition of Vow line of spells, also why was Mana regen taken out of the high level Yaulp line of spells? It seems like the tradeoff of increased attack speed for mana regen isn't useful in most group setting situations. Combined with the absence of complete heal, the extra mana regen would be more useful.
-- Druids ... my initial / main toon here on SoD is a Druid..
It was never clear why charm spells in general were nerfed at high level on SoD. Enchanters are really gimped in terms of their charm spells for higher level content. No dire charm and a single charm spell that lasts only half the duration of the recast timer for level 59+ creatures really takes away from one of the coolest aspects of playing an enchanter... massive pet DPS. I understand the desire to keep them from being overpowered (though charming a creature that can rip you apart in a few hits does require skill to stay alive), but why make it so it really isn't even useful at level 65?
-- Necro: Mana Pump needs to be back in and be added-to, to truly PISS OFF raid necros
+1000 for reinstatement of twitch. I played a necro on live for some time, and it was always a source of pride that I could not only cast every DoT that would stack on the mob to give more dps than you, but also had enough mana regen left over to supplement your feeble VoQ buff.
In truth though, removing this is as equally confusing as the removal of mana regen from Yaulp. Yes necros often played the role of mana battery on tough raids, but that was generally because all clerics were doing was chain casting CH, and breaking that chain often resulted in less than desirable consequences. However on SoD you don't have CH (which is fine in my opinion) but the catch is that you have to pickup the slack with more heals and hence have a much higher mana consumption rate. As has been mentioned several times in this thread already, raid downtime is an issue in general, even more so since clerics/healers have such an important role that being without a reasonably full mana bar does nothing but serve to make people wait. At least with twitch you could reduce this time, and honestly any necro worth their salt can twitch and still serve high dps under most circumstances.
One Emu I was on had an NPC who would set your level back to where ever you "needed" to be. This is interesting because certain quests required what would other wise be "green kills" or impossible kills. Vox / Nagafen for instance. Instead of having to go back and do greens, you would de-level and go do it. This required Back Up / ALT Gear!
This is an interesting idea... having never played that emu I am not sure what it is like to actually use. Did you have to re-level after being taken down to the level of quest? I am not sure I am a fan of that (unless there was some adept that had an item you REALLY wanted). If it would later restore you to your previous level that might kind of cool.
quote Iithiumbat:
"I agree though, overall clerics are at the moment not designed for any manner of soloing"
This is just lol,they are among the best soloers,get some DS clickies,(relic) mage DS buff and DS potions and goto work.
quote Iithiumbat:
"The Vow line of spells was definitely a cool addition"
No it wasnt,made solo'ing much too easy.After introduction of VoW my solo abilities jumped from 400 (undead!)hitters in Veksar to 800 (non-undead!)hitters in Plane of Fire.
Overall I dont know why we are talking about solo'ing Clerics at all,I certainly dont main a Cleric to solo.
quote Iithiumbat:
"also why was Mana regen taken out of the high level Yaulp line of spells? It seems like the tradeoff of increased attack speed for mana regen isn't useful in most group setting situations."
With that I agree for a change.
Though on SoD Druid mana regeneration buffs stack with Cleric self buff line which wasnt the case on live,iirc,so it isnt that bad.
"I agree though, overall clerics are at the moment not designed for any manner of soloing"
This is just lol,they are among the best soloers,get some DS clickies,(relic) mage DS buff and DS potions and goto work.
quote Iithiumbat:
"The Vow line of spells was definitely a cool addition"
No it wasnt,made solo'ing much too easy.After introduction of VoW my solo abilities jumped from 400 (undead!)hitters in Veksar to 800 (non-undead!)hitters in Plane of Fire.
Overall I dont know why we are talking about solo'ing Clerics at all,I certainly dont main a Cleric to solo.
quote Iithiumbat:
"also why was Mana regen taken out of the high level Yaulp line of spells? It seems like the tradeoff of increased attack speed for mana regen isn't useful in most group setting situations."
With that I agree for a change.
Though on SoD Druid mana regeneration buffs stack with Cleric self buff line which wasnt the case on live,iirc,so it isnt that bad.
lithiumbat
Dalayan Beginner
With all that sure, but to the point... they are not so buff at lower levels or low tier. All of those things require some way of acquiring them. If you are a new player to the server choosing to be a cleric, money and clickies are not trivial to attain. So it comes down to being able to find a group, which if you end up spending hours looking for one without making much progress on your level, is not an attractive aspect to playing the class. The key statement was they are not designed to solo, that doesn't mean they can't in the end game. Hell my necro could tank inner HoH trash on live better than many of the actual tanks in my guild.
Fair enough.
Fine, but again the point here was more about providing clerics with a way of leveling without spending hours lfg. If the server had a more uniform distribution of players across levels/tiers then it likely wouldn't be a topic of discussion.
"also why was Mana regen taken out of the high level Yaulp line of spells? It seems like the tradeoff of increased attack speed for mana regen isn't useful in most group setting situations."
With that I agree for a change.
Though on SoD Druid mana regeneration buffs stack with Cleric self buff line which wasnt the case on live,iirc,so it isnt that bad.
This is true, the cleric self buff armor did not stack with BoN spell line. So this is a valid point, though BoN + Yaulp gave like 20 mana regen whereas relic cleric armor + WoN gives around 18. Not enough to be upset about...
Clerics do have the probably-overpowered super efficient low-level scaling melee-range healing nuke things I added a while back starting at level 14.
Also, at least 1/3 of the classes are fairly poor if not totally incapable soloers. Which is why many of them box healers to duo/form their own groups. And vice versa for clerics.
Suddenly very live-centric thread...
Also, at least 1/3 of the classes are fairly poor if not totally incapable soloers. Which is why many of them box healers to duo/form their own groups. And vice versa for clerics.
Suddenly very live-centric thread...
@Zaela Yes I did see the combat intants! Those are cool!
@Ulandx, You did not read sir. I said from 1 to 65 basic, not from Thaz on up... I know Thaz++ clerics are damn tough. But from 1 to 65 is a bitch. VoV would help them have some fun while in group, it would also help them when Solo, when they HAD TO. Add to that they need some fairly serious Undead Dots / DD's, not these sissy ass ones. That way they can carefully choose zones like Veksar and go SOLO / Duo ...AGAIN When They MUST!!! From 1 to 65 needs to be more fun for them, not easy peasy, but More Fun. "oh Gee, here I sit On My ASS ...oohhhh CAST CAST CAST...! Yeah ...on my ass again..."
/sigh...get it?
@Zaela,
I agree witth the 1/3 rule. I did say Solo, but I also said Duo / Group!! If a cleric can add in "SOME" dps and have "SOME" fun in a group..they become more animated, they talk more, and they Add In more to the Group ambiance.
@lithiumbat,
The EMU was stormhaven, and you could drop levels and regain them at an NPC at will. It was as simple as dropping all your gear in the bank, Re-Equipping, then talking to the NPC...then Reverse of previous All in all it was cool because you usually had in the back of your mind.."how can I make my Alt-Level gear better"....
I am not for over endowing any class, most especially the cleric. VoV line of spells would truly add to Duo / Grouping...and semi raiding but only semi... Yes, it helped some with Solo... up to level 85... but not really. Now once you hit 85 and got 2000 AA and the gear to go with those AA...then Oh My F'N GOD!!! .... BOO YAAA!!!!!! but then that is not what we are talking about... from 1 to 65... 1 to 65.... can you grasp this concept Ulandx? I have raided in the highest end of EQ... been there done that... but I also had friends who wanted me to group, thus I ran low level toons too.
There is no good reason why casual cannot be catered to. Raid = ZOMG taken care of Casual seems beyond an after thought, and this is why WoW and company strived. Thing is, BOTH can survive!! You need Dev's who can grasp 1 to 65, and you need Dev's who can graps 65++++++++++++++++++++.....!!! You have the upper end dev's! Now try to graps "The Climb Up!" Make it really fun to climb from 1 to 65...and the "never going to raid" folks can make 6 accounts all full of 1 to 65 toons... Hey, why not? What do we have against Low Levels having fun? I have Raided 10++ Hours on Inny in Time ...dying and dying untill we figured out how to hammer him. Then moved on to Rallos in time...another several hours... ect... don't even get me started on Quarm...he was an assssss till we figured it out! Go to work 8-10 hours, then come play EQ1 12++ hours...rinse and repeat. Yes, I have done that!!! No excuse to purposely piss on 1 to 65's fun parade! Some folks will never designate the time / focus to RAID...deal with it!
All in all, I really love SoD! What I truly hope for is Seeds Client as it will help cure quite a lot of disparate problems. The No Bounce = Helps the server side networking! The updated client itself helps the Nvidida Ships Problem, and the ATI No target ring problem. There is also added functionality in the overall combat abilities, and Raid Client Fixes!! Seeds is not evil... Vale might be...but not seeds, nor Underfoot! Though UF was a pisser for what they left out of the steam client, that I had to add back in ....
Gary
@Ulandx, You did not read sir. I said from 1 to 65 basic, not from Thaz on up... I know Thaz++ clerics are damn tough. But from 1 to 65 is a bitch. VoV would help them have some fun while in group, it would also help them when Solo, when they HAD TO. Add to that they need some fairly serious Undead Dots / DD's, not these sissy ass ones. That way they can carefully choose zones like Veksar and go SOLO / Duo ...AGAIN When They MUST!!! From 1 to 65 needs to be more fun for them, not easy peasy, but More Fun. "oh Gee, here I sit On My ASS ...oohhhh CAST CAST CAST...! Yeah ...on my ass again..."
/sigh...get it?
@Zaela,
I agree witth the 1/3 rule. I did say Solo, but I also said Duo / Group!! If a cleric can add in "SOME" dps and have "SOME" fun in a group..they become more animated, they talk more, and they Add In more to the Group ambiance.
@lithiumbat,
The EMU was stormhaven, and you could drop levels and regain them at an NPC at will. It was as simple as dropping all your gear in the bank, Re-Equipping, then talking to the NPC...then Reverse of previous
All in all it was cool because you usually had in the back of your mind.."how can I make my Alt-Level gear better".... I am not for over endowing any class, most especially the cleric. VoV line of spells would truly add to Duo / Grouping...and semi raiding but only semi...
Yes, it helped some with Solo... up to level 85... but not really. Now once you hit 85 and got 2000 AA and the gear to go with those AA...then Oh My F'N GOD!!! .... BOO YAAA!!!!!! but then that is not what we are talking about... from 1 to 65... 1 to 65.... can you grasp this concept Ulandx? I have raided in the highest end of EQ... been there done that... but I also had friends who wanted me to group, thus I ran low level toons too. There is no good reason why casual cannot be catered to. Raid = ZOMG taken care of
Casual seems beyond an after thought, and this is why WoW and company strived. Thing is, BOTH can survive!! You need Dev's who can grasp 1 to 65, and you need Dev's who can graps 65++++++++++++++++++++.....!!! You have the upper end dev's! Now try to graps "The Climb Up!" Make it really fun to climb from 1 to 65...and the "never going to raid" folks can make 6 accounts all full of 1 to 65 toons... Hey, why not? What do we have against Low Levels having fun? I have Raided 10++ Hours on Inny in Time ...dying and dying untill we figured out how to hammer him. Then moved on to Rallos in time...another several hours... ect... don't even get me started on Quarm...he was an assssss till we figured it out! Go to work 8-10 hours, then come play EQ1 12++ hours...rinse and repeat. Yes, I have done that!!! No excuse to purposely piss on 1 to 65's fun parade! Some folks will never designate the time / focus to RAID...deal with it! All in all, I really love SoD! What I truly hope for is Seeds Client as it will help cure quite a lot of disparate problems. The No Bounce = Helps the server side networking! The updated client itself helps the Nvidida Ships Problem, and the ATI No target ring problem. There is also added functionality in the overall combat abilities, and Raid Client Fixes!! Seeds is not evil...
Vale might be...but not seeds, nor Underfoot! Though UF was a pisser for what they left out of the steam client, that I had to add back in .... Gary
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To expand on the VoV for clerics, if memory serves on Live we got VoV at 71, way late in eq progression expansion wise. Once we got VoV, and a the better summoned hammers, we could duo with our Warrior etc considerably better. We could even go to Infected Paw and Duo the elementals... What I propose is at about lvl 9 you get your first VoV line spell...then about every 10 levels or so you get an upgrade to it up till about level 59-ish. At that point the heavy 65 Thaz++ gear will pretty much take over. I admit, the 59 VoV will probably have to be ....well thought out...in order to not make the top end clerics too over powered But then Gster was a friend of mine...and he seriously kicked ass. Then again, he was WELL EQUIPED and Well AA'd... Gee.... I am talking about from Level 1 to Level 65 BASE!!!!!
What I propose is at about lvl 9 you get your first VoV line spell...then about every 10 levels or so you get an upgrade to it up till about level 59-ish. At that point the heavy 65 Thaz++ gear will pretty much take over. I admit, the 59 VoV will probably have to be ....well thought out...in order to not make the top end clerics too over powered But then Gster was a friend of mine...and he seriously kicked ass. Then again, he was WELL EQUIPED and Well AA'd... Gee.... I am talking about from Level 1 to Level 65 BASE!!!!!
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Much Love @ you Zaela
The feeling is not mutual, thus far.
5 posts shilling these Vow spells and no one has even hinted at what a Vow spell is yet. 71 wasn't a level when most of the developers last played live.
At least 6 other classes are 100% like this. Clerics are the best melees out of all the casterly-types, really, so...
I'm not sure how disappointed to be when fun is apparently directly related to damage dealt. But I guess that's the game we have. Maybe I should just force every healing spell to be one of those damage-via-healing things I've been wanting to cram in somewhere...
In any case, I promise that Clerics will be able to solo in zones that don't exist on this server by the time I'm done.
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quote Zaela:
"5 posts shilling these Vow spells and no one has even hinted at what a Vow spell is yet. "
Self only buff,made you proc a HoT on yourself,lenght of HoT depending on gear/AAs was up to
7 ticks,healed ~800 per tick,think the heals could even crit.
Proc rate was so high,practically you had it running constantly while meleeing.
I remember solo'ing level 74 mobs with that when my Cleric was 71(with certainly more AAs than the average Cleric,but no or outdated raid gear),but that was extreme and on the edge,leaving meoom when fight was over.
Overall - way overpowered as I said before.
Sorry for de-railing the thread,I shut up now until I have something constructive to contribute.
"5 posts shilling these Vow spells and no one has even hinted at what a Vow spell is yet. "
Self only buff,made you proc a HoT on yourself,lenght of HoT depending on gear/AAs was up to
7 ticks,healed ~800 per tick,think the heals could even crit.
Proc rate was so high,practically you had it running constantly while meleeing.
I remember solo'ing level 74 mobs with that when my Cleric was 71(with certainly more AAs than the average Cleric,but no or outdated raid gear),but that was extreme and on the edge,leaving meoom when fight was over.
Overall - way overpowered as I said before.
Sorry for de-railing the thread,I shut up now until I have something constructive to contribute.
@Zaela,
I appologize for assuming you knew what the Vow of Valor line was. As Ulandx said, it is not really a DPS type spell. It keeps you alive. It allows you to do something other than cast and sit. As I re-read my postings I can see where you are coming from. Sorry if I came off sounding poorly. I have played most classes up to fairly high levels, and each have their "own thing going on" to be sure.
@Ulandx,
Sir your gear and AA are showing again in that post When fully AA'd and Well Geared, yes Vow of Valor as on live was over the top. As with any spell line on any class it needs to be balanced. On live on my ALT cleric I used to go play with my casual RL friends, he was not well AA'd or well Geared and I can say for sure Vow of Valor in that case made for a nice spell to have running. Now my main Cleric on live was over powered using that spells upgrade. Then again by that point in live if you had good gear and 2000-3000AA you were pretty brutal anyhow. VoV was made for the casual gamers who needed that edge just to be able to engage yard trash to exp.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=9764
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=14255
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=18276
Up above I proposed from lvl 9, that is a miss type, I would think lvl 29 to 49 now that I consider it more at length. Obviously not as over powered as they set it up on live.
Again, sorry for how things came out sounding. Cleric was my main so long I guess I assumed everyone knew what I knew, and that is just wrong headed of me. I was one of the few who played at the very top of the game, but also played with RL friends on the very casual side too. So my perspective on some spell lines is a bit different than a lot of folks.
@Ulandx If I have assumed your gear and AA are higher than they were, correct me sir. My ALT cleric ran out of mana in a heart beat trying to heal our casual Warrior. That was with a Wizard who ran OOM pretty quick (and died alot ...), and a Ranger who was also casual. We had a shaman and a druid in our casual group as well. It was "fun" to go places like Loping Plains and fight one fight then have to med Where as my personal Necro could easily hammer 2-3 of those at a time. For that matter My necro could even tank the lesser named in LP, but then different class, 2700AA and good gear.... My personal warrior only had about 800 AA and he had to really work to tank the nameds there Not our group warrior who was only about 300ish AA and much lesser geared
I love SoD, I have played it and greatly enjoyed it. You dev's have done great things here. Better EQ than EQ by far! Please do not take my comments as disparaging!
Gary
I appologize for assuming you knew what the Vow of Valor line was. As Ulandx said, it is not really a DPS type spell. It keeps you alive. It allows you to do something other than cast and sit. As I re-read my postings I can see where you are coming from. Sorry if I came off sounding poorly. I have played most classes up to fairly high levels, and each have their "own thing going on" to be sure.
@Ulandx,
Sir your gear and AA are showing again in that post
When fully AA'd and Well Geared, yes Vow of Valor as on live was over the top. As with any spell line on any class it needs to be balanced. On live on my ALT cleric I used to go play with my casual RL friends, he was not well AA'd or well Geared and I can say for sure Vow of Valor in that case made for a nice spell to have running. Now my main Cleric on live was over powered using that spells upgrade. Then again by that point in live if you had good gear and 2000-3000AA you were pretty brutal anyhow. VoV was made for the casual gamers who needed that edge just to be able to engage yard trash to exp.http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=9764
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=14255
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=18276
Up above I proposed from lvl 9, that is a miss type, I would think lvl 29 to 49 now that I consider it more at length. Obviously not as over powered as they set it up on live.
Again, sorry for how things came out sounding. Cleric was my main so long I guess I assumed everyone knew what I knew, and that is just wrong headed of me. I was one of the few who played at the very top of the game, but also played with RL friends on the very casual side too. So my perspective on some spell lines is a bit different than a lot of folks.
@Ulandx If I have assumed your gear and AA are higher than they were, correct me sir. My ALT cleric ran out of mana in a heart beat trying to heal our casual Warrior. That was with a Wizard who ran OOM pretty quick (and died alot ...), and a Ranger who was also casual. We had a shaman and a druid in our casual group as well. It was "fun" to go places like Loping Plains and fight one fight then have to med
Where as my personal Necro could easily hammer 2-3 of those at a time. For that matter My necro could even tank the lesser named in LP, but then different class, 2700AA and good gear.... My personal warrior only had about 800 AA and he had to really work to tank the nameds there Not our group warrior who was only about 300ish AA and much lesser geared I love SoD, I have played it and greatly enjoyed it. You dev's have done great things here. Better EQ than EQ by far! Please do not take my comments as disparaging!
Gary
@Zaela,
and the rest of the devs. I just re-read my postings above. They came off sounding terrible, I am very sorry! A cousin and myself setup an EMU and we were developing it. It was a heck of a lot of work. Fix something on the bottom end, and test up top...damn Fix something up top and test down low...damn It is hard to balance casual gaming with the upper end raid content! We eventualy had RL crop up and force us to set it aside. I have a wife and 2 kids now Go figure! hahah He has a busted relationship and 4 kids /boggle...
Again, I am sorry for how that came out up above! Please accept my sincere apologies!
Gary
and the rest of the devs. I just re-read my postings above. They came off sounding terrible, I am very sorry! A cousin and myself setup an EMU and we were developing it. It was a heck of a lot of work. Fix something on the bottom end, and test up top...damn
Fix something up top and test down low...damn It is hard to balance casual gaming with the upper end raid content! We eventualy had RL crop up and force us to set it aside. I have a wife and 2 kids now Go figure! hahah He has a busted relationship and 4 kids /boggle... Again, I am sorry for how that came out up above! Please accept my sincere apologies!
Gary
Hello All,
First, a little about me. I played SoD while in college / after college about 5 years+ ago. I quit SoD to follow friends to another MMO then got carried away with life, job, marriage, etc.
I recently finished diablo 3 inferno, got nostalgic, and started checking out the SoD forums. I even downloaded the client and logged in yesterday. The game is quite different from how I remember it. There were no teirs, no tomes, and just scattered raid bosses / raid zones. I have played several MMOs / Games from EQ, SoD, WoW, Oblivion, etc. The main reasons I see SoD never building a consistent player base again (from my limited perspective of how SoD is now) is the following:
Games now allow you to play faster and enjoy the game with less time spent (EQ took about 3-6 months for me to reach max level, WoW about 1 month, D3 etc. like 1 week). It's not just about downtown. In every game since Everquest, the game just takes less of my time. For those of you guys (and me when I was in college) spending 150+ days played on a character in a virtual game is no biggie. I cannot nor will I ever spend that kind of time on a game ever again. This makes playing SoD very unappealing. I guess my original hope was my lvl 65 shm and shd with 150ish AA's would be able to start up again where I left off and be somewhat close to the end game. With tomes taking months to complete, there's no reason for me to even bother.
How would SoD ever change such that it would appeal to new players? I have a few ideas. Here goes:
1. Lower the time it takes to get 65 with AA's dramatically. Some in the thread argue to reduce downtown. I totally agree but would go so much further to include permanent exp bonus on a large order, significantly increase the drop rate and spawn rate of gear/mobs, and speed up travelling. IMO, getting 65 with 100ish AA's should take a decent player somewhere around 2 weeks of about 4 hours a day. I know this type of change is very unlikely. I can understand people who have already spent the time to do this would be angry to see it belittled by such a change, but this is what it would take to give a dramatic increase to the pbase. I would definitely love trying out other classes, but the time sink is too much for me or for my real life friends who game.
2. Be friendly, helpful, and welcoming to new players. I cannot stress this enough. Invite them to your guild. Give them gear. Hand hold them through quests if necessary. Unlike most new games, you cannot solo effectively (especially as a new player) in EQ. Sure, if you twink yourself up, play a necro or soloing class it's doable, but this isn't appealing to most people and doesn't make you want to stay. This means taking a break from your daily tome / AA grind and helping new players do quests and learn the game. If you play EQ to solo by yourself, you are the few / rare type of players. If a new player has a new group of friends that are willing to help him and play with him, they will stay longer and perhaps bring in their real life friends to join as well. When I logged on, I ooc'd where can I find a decent, easy to obtain chest plate (mine was apparently taken by friends when i retired last), no one even replied. This cannot happen if you wish to keep new players. Especially in a game with out-dated graphics and limited boss encounter creativity compared to newer MMO's.
3. The wiki is a great start, but needs improvement still. With games like diablo 3 and wow literally hand holding you through the progression of the game with questing etc. It would be difficult to appeal these players to try a game that has little to no knowledge of the majority of quests, mobs, etc. This is what my workmates and I refer to as tribal knowledge. In the beginning, players knew enough about EQ to easily pickup SoD and figure things out. The new gamer who hasn't played EQ has no clue or desire to figure out quests like we used to. I'm not suggesting spoil all quests on the wiki, but ease them into them.
4. New content. Plain and simple. New content keeps the old playing and gives the new more things to explore when they get there.
Anyways, these are just my thoughts on the matter.
Regards,
Paul (Bagok)
First, a little about me. I played SoD while in college / after college about 5 years+ ago. I quit SoD to follow friends to another MMO then got carried away with life, job, marriage, etc.
I recently finished diablo 3 inferno, got nostalgic, and started checking out the SoD forums. I even downloaded the client and logged in yesterday. The game is quite different from how I remember it. There were no teirs, no tomes, and just scattered raid bosses / raid zones. I have played several MMOs / Games from EQ, SoD, WoW, Oblivion, etc. The main reasons I see SoD never building a consistent player base again (from my limited perspective of how SoD is now) is the following:
Games now allow you to play faster and enjoy the game with less time spent (EQ took about 3-6 months for me to reach max level, WoW about 1 month, D3 etc. like 1 week). It's not just about downtown. In every game since Everquest, the game just takes less of my time. For those of you guys (and me when I was in college) spending 150+ days played on a character in a virtual game is no biggie. I cannot nor will I ever spend that kind of time on a game ever again. This makes playing SoD very unappealing. I guess my original hope was my lvl 65 shm and shd with 150ish AA's would be able to start up again where I left off and be somewhat close to the end game. With tomes taking months to complete, there's no reason for me to even bother.
How would SoD ever change such that it would appeal to new players? I have a few ideas. Here goes:
1. Lower the time it takes to get 65 with AA's dramatically. Some in the thread argue to reduce downtown. I totally agree but would go so much further to include permanent exp bonus on a large order, significantly increase the drop rate and spawn rate of gear/mobs, and speed up travelling. IMO, getting 65 with 100ish AA's should take a decent player somewhere around 2 weeks of about 4 hours a day. I know this type of change is very unlikely. I can understand people who have already spent the time to do this would be angry to see it belittled by such a change, but this is what it would take to give a dramatic increase to the pbase. I would definitely love trying out other classes, but the time sink is too much for me or for my real life friends who game.
2. Be friendly, helpful, and welcoming to new players. I cannot stress this enough. Invite them to your guild. Give them gear. Hand hold them through quests if necessary. Unlike most new games, you cannot solo effectively (especially as a new player) in EQ. Sure, if you twink yourself up, play a necro or soloing class it's doable, but this isn't appealing to most people and doesn't make you want to stay. This means taking a break from your daily tome / AA grind and helping new players do quests and learn the game. If you play EQ to solo by yourself, you are the few / rare type of players. If a new player has a new group of friends that are willing to help him and play with him, they will stay longer and perhaps bring in their real life friends to join as well. When I logged on, I ooc'd where can I find a decent, easy to obtain chest plate (mine was apparently taken by friends when i retired last), no one even replied. This cannot happen if you wish to keep new players. Especially in a game with out-dated graphics and limited boss encounter creativity compared to newer MMO's.
3. The wiki is a great start, but needs improvement still. With games like diablo 3 and wow literally hand holding you through the progression of the game with questing etc. It would be difficult to appeal these players to try a game that has little to no knowledge of the majority of quests, mobs, etc. This is what my workmates and I refer to as tribal knowledge. In the beginning, players knew enough about EQ to easily pickup SoD and figure things out. The new gamer who hasn't played EQ has no clue or desire to figure out quests like we used to. I'm not suggesting spoil all quests on the wiki, but ease them into them.
4. New content. Plain and simple. New content keeps the old playing and gives the new more things to explore when they get there.
Anyways, these are just my thoughts on the matter.
Regards,
Paul (Bagok)
darkparadox
Dalayan Beginner
Personally I've pretty much quit playing and it is primarily due to the lack of grouping potential at lower levels. I understand duoing is possible, but the ability to three box would be a far greater incentive for me personally.
Regardless I don't play MMOs so I can sit in an empty zone by myself or attempt to find other people to play with. Grouping makes the game much better an meeting new people is half the fun.
Also the population primarily seems to consist of over geared characters being passed around like cheap whores. Everyone's got 20 boxes of some awesome nicely geared character, what's the point for some one new ?
An trying to gear up a tank is brutal.
Which is to bad as I think what has been done with the content at least 1-55 is awesome.
Regardless I don't play MMOs so I can sit in an empty zone by myself or attempt to find other people to play with. Grouping makes the game much better an meeting new people is half the fun.
Also the population primarily seems to consist of over geared characters being passed around like cheap whores. Everyone's got 20 boxes of some awesome nicely geared character, what's the point for some one new ?
An trying to gear up a tank is brutal.
Which is to bad as I think what has been done with the content at least 1-55 is awesome.