Bard Relics
- Thread starter Pharaun
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Mythryn
Dalayan Master
When Ginam and Wiz talked about it in IRC when Priest Archaics were first made public, neither of them could think of a good bard archaic, because they already have some of the best buffs out there. I've personally tried to think of one, and there were a few discussions in #forsaken about it as well to no result.Allielyn said:
Rouean_Onrielas
Dalayan Beginner
I dont Think an Archaic Mez would be overpowered or take away from Enchanters. Archaics are extremely difficult to get and should be amazing. I do however think that adding a raidwide blademaster with upgraded or added components would be a bit too much. Although simply a raid wide version of the existing Blademaster wouldn't be too bad.
That said, I appreciate the bard changes that you made Wiz. Thank you
That said, I appreciate the bard changes that you made Wiz. Thank you
Allielyn
*Pony*
I'm not a fan of archaic mez because I don't feel it would be raid-useful by the time you get the archaic.
I don't think a raidwide upgraded blademaster with additional components would be overpowered due to the following:
1 - All the stats gained from Blademaster pretty much count for very little (IE all melees at that level will be at or near max stats by then already, and be well over the cap with buffs; so any stat buffs would be counted at 1/3 (or less))
2 - The haste given by Blademaster does not stack with Enchie haste. It would be completely useless unless the raid did not have an enchanter present.
3 - The DS provided by Blademaster would for the most part only be useful on one person - the tank.
4 - The + ATK ends up being the only big boost the raid gets.
Therefore, adding in say a proc (like from mindflayer) which would boost all melee dps, and a rune and/or AC component which would only (for the most part) affect the MT, doesn't sound too overpowering to me at all.
I don't think a raidwide upgraded blademaster with additional components would be overpowered due to the following:
1 - All the stats gained from Blademaster pretty much count for very little (IE all melees at that level will be at or near max stats by then already, and be well over the cap with buffs; so any stat buffs would be counted at 1/3 (or less))
2 - The haste given by Blademaster does not stack with Enchie haste. It would be completely useless unless the raid did not have an enchanter present.
3 - The DS provided by Blademaster would for the most part only be useful on one person - the tank.
4 - The + ATK ends up being the only big boost the raid gets.
Therefore, adding in say a proc (like from mindflayer) which would boost all melee dps, and a rune and/or AC component which would only (for the most part) affect the MT, doesn't sound too overpowering to me at all.
I agree with Allielyn here when she mentions that Song of the Blade master needs some sort of upgrade (A.k.a brought into an archaic) Something that could effect raidwide. While I don't agree with mindflayer since it's just a dex debuff proc, but make it a low end proc (like 80 DD, and a small ~2% spell crit chance) So it will help casters as well as melee dps. The extra atk + proc would be welcomed by all melee classes and extra small crit chance would make it helpful to casters as long as it stacks with previous crit chance spells/songs.Allielyn said:
I don't know if it's possible, but making the extra stats gained to Dex, Str etc.. is it possible to make it not added onto the cap of current stats, but effect in a hidden strength sort of way (like +30 HS stats if current stat is capped) So that it would make it still worth using for stats as well, _possibly_ even all stats across the board (I think that might be pushing it too far though). I think that would make it quite worth the title Archiac.
syduck:
shanara99
Dalayan Beginner
What about using, for archaich song, one line of clerics spells from EQLthat never made it here cause it's alittle overpowering?
I'm talking aboutthe melee damage reductors. Archaichsaresupposed to be ultrapowerful, anda song that reducesmelee damage by 10 % soundsjustthat powerful to me. Specially, since it's an adition after aux tanks, damage absortion, styles, dot weakening.
The melee reduction would assure it being sing almost 100 % of time... pretty muchlike shamans using their slow,orclerics using their buff.
I'm talking aboutthe melee damage reductors. Archaichsaresupposed to be ultrapowerful, anda song that reducesmelee damage by 10 % soundsjustthat powerful to me. Specially, since it's an adition after aux tanks, damage absortion, styles, dot weakening.
The melee reduction would assure it being sing almost 100 % of time... pretty muchlike shamans using their slow,orclerics using their buff.
shanara99
Dalayan Beginner
I disagree on it being useless. A tank suffering 10 % less damage means healers having more effective mana, which makes you able to engage longer fights, or even with less healers. If the damage reduction was big enough, this could justify druids nuking instead healing after engage. So... even if only MT directly benefits from the song, whole raid takes advantage from it. Not to mention that it would also help ripostes, WW, rampage, phantom strikes, secundary tanks if adds.... Think about it again, iaeolan, damage reduction raidwide can help many more people than you seem to consider, be that directly or indirectly.
Allielyn
*Pony*
One other thing I forgot to mention is that the melee songs i've been referring to are currently group only - so often you'll see the raid split up into melee group, caster group, tank group. Making these songs (or a version of it) raidwide would only have an added effect on 2-4 melees, for a "normal" raid setup.
ANOTHER IDEA:
Archaic DoT. Can be Fire, Cold, or Fire/Cold, and have a debuff component.
It doesn't remove utility from any current Relic spells, it gives us another detrimental spell (which we have fewer of anyhow), and upgrades utility from the current Fire/Cold DoTs now used (level 38/46 songs).
Could do Fire- or Cold-based DoT that does same damage and resist debuff as relic, or Frostflame DoT that does same fire+cold combined damage and debuff as relic.
Other ideas: instead of (or in addition to) a debuff, the DoT could add a bard-only, groupwide, or raidwide recourse that could: Buff resists, add to crit strike, add a proc, add to spell crit chance.
ANOTHER IDEA:
Archaic DoT. Can be Fire, Cold, or Fire/Cold, and have a debuff component.
It doesn't remove utility from any current Relic spells, it gives us another detrimental spell (which we have fewer of anyhow), and upgrades utility from the current Fire/Cold DoTs now used (level 38/46 songs).
Could do Fire- or Cold-based DoT that does same damage and resist debuff as relic, or Frostflame DoT that does same fire+cold combined damage and debuff as relic.
Other ideas: instead of (or in addition to) a debuff, the DoT could add a bard-only, groupwide, or raidwide recourse that could: Buff resists, add to crit strike, add a proc, add to spell crit chance.
iaeolan said:
10 % mitigation is insane...If a mitigation song was to be put in it would have to be like 1-3 % , maybe 4-5 % at MOST. If a mob hits for 1k + the song itself would take 100 hp / swing not to mention AA's, stances, aux tanks, AC and Damage reduction. That would be way too overpowering and trivialize many encounters.