Bard Relics

You're right about the whole relics replacing ancients thing. I didn't even think of that when dreaming about my relic mez. Good bye sweet prince, my relic mez.

But I still think that the deathsave song isn't worthwhile to be a relic and really doesn't add to our utility.

Some ideas that could upgrade the bard without putting the class outside its existing role:

1) An upgrade to Shield of Songs (lvl 49) making it a rune of (i'm pulling numbers out of my ass) 200 and spellshield of 200 with an AC buff (30?).

2) As Allielyn mentioned before, relic charm up to level 60. Maybe make it last a certain amount of time before it poofs randomly like the other charms.

3) An ae song that will give a chance to relect spells (Dark Echo)

4) A counterpart to the pot4 resist buff: a debuff that hits all the resists, lowering them by 50 or whatever.
 
Those are good ideas, but a resist debuff might be a bit useless, as a NPCs resists can only be debuffed so far, and a reflect spell might be a tad overpowered unless some NPC spells were coded to bypass it, which would make it useless :[ A group update to Shield of Songs would be really awesome though.
 
What about changing it to increase healing by 5%, increase spell/melee crits by 5%, and decrease mana cost by 5%? I remember seeing a song like this about 3 years ago in mongrels spell database, but never did see it in game, and I've always thought that it was a cool idea. Possibly limit it to group instead of AE to prevent it from being to overpowering
 
Pharaun said:
What about changing it to increase healing by 5%, increase spell/melee crits by 5%, and decrease mana cost by 5%? I remember seeing a song like this about 3 years ago in mongrels spell database, but never did see it in game, and I've always thought that it was a cool idea. Possibly limit it to group instead of AE to prevent it from being to overpowering
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that would defeat the whole purpose of calling it a relic, relics are raid obtained to be benefited by raid enviroment. That is a nice idea tho, adds a unique utility.
 
I think that song would still greatly help the raid. Stick the bard in a group strong on healing = $$.

Heck, Warcry was group only for a long time.

I think the description you're thinking of was for Melody of the Shield, Phar. The mirror poker proc has a similar description and does a similiar thing.
 
I've been talking with Allielyn, and we think that a good replacement would be 10% to all healing spells. As it stands now, Fiery Warcry of Tarhyl is geared towards inteligent casters, increasing how much damage they deal. So why not a priest counterpart to increase how much they can heal for?
 
I like the idea of making it an upgrade to Occlusion of Sound.

Wouldnt make it overpowered but would make it very helpful.
 
I disagree. With the resist debuff cap, and the additional classes that also get resist debuff spells, it wouldn't be as useful. In addition, all our chants come with a resist debuff component, so we've already got that covered.
 
Waldoff said:
I like the idea of making it an upgrade to Occlusion of Sound.

Wouldnt make it overpowered but would make it very helpful.
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Allielyn said:
I disagree. With the resist debuff cap, and the additional classes that also get resist debuff spells, it wouldn't be as useful. In addition, all our chants come with a resist debuff component, so we've already got that covered.
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I'm gonna have to agree with Allie on this

Pharaun said:
What about changing it to increase healing by 5%, increase spell/melee crits by 5%, and decrease mana cost by 5%? I remember seeing a song like this about 3 years ago in mongrels spell database, but never did see it in game, and I've always thought that it was a cool idea. Possibly limit it to group instead of AE to prevent it from being to overpowering
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I like this Idea although instead of a 5% to crits it could have an AC buff. It could be a extremely important song and the actual numbers could be juggled around to keep it from being overpowered. Another way to keep it in check would maybe be to remove one of the three components alltogether. Changing the plus crit to AC would keep the song defensive in nature as not to increase dps.

EDIT: As to the song being raidwide or group, I'd say raidwide but that'd have to be something that would undergo a few test runs to see if it really adds too much in a raid situation
 
I prefer the idea of a single powerful boost than several minor ones. It seems more in line with utility and bard songs in general.

An AC boost wouldn't be terribly useful because if everything goes well, only one (or maybe two) people are getting hit. In that case, if a boost is needed, just play Niv's harmonic.

Looking at it from a perspective of utility, here's what I see for the current relics and most commonly played raid songs (disclaimer: Some of these aren't commonly played, but they show possible utility for situational use). If I've missed any, feel free to help fill me in:

Beneficial

Relic Warcry: Benefits int casters and melees. Increases raw damage output.
Relic L'ceas: Benefits all casters and melees. Increases mana regen by 5, and hp regen (variable)
Relic Spellshield: Defensinve song for DD AEs.
Psalm of the Four: Major buff to all resists, also AC and DS component.
Song of the Blademaster: Major buff to DEX, STR, and ATK. Also contains a DS component. Group only.
Niv's Harmonic: AC buff. Group only.
Ancient Song of the Mindflayer: adds a DD hp and mana proc. Group only.
Relic Hymn of the Savoiur: Bestows al chance of deathsave.

Detrimental

Relic Chant: DoT DPS. Contains a significant -Magic resist debuff.
Chant of Flame/Frost/Venom/Plague: DoT DPS + significant -Fire/Cold/Poison/Disease resist debuff.
Brusco's line: DD DPS. Significant mana cost.
Ervaj's Lost Composition: Mana drain.
Ancient Lullabye of shadows and Dreams of Marlow: Mezmerize. Max level 63.
Song of Dawn: Jolt.


Given the current spread of utility, I see that debuffs, DoTs, and even some DDs are covered for detrimental. I'd love to see more utility in the detrimental list but I'm not sure where I'd put it. While an upgraded charm sounds fun, it doesn't feel like a "raid" song to me, as relics are designed to be.

Looking over the beneficial songs, I see ones designed to help the raid as a whole (PoT4, Spellshield, Lceas), and ones designed to help int casters and melees (Warcry, Blademaster, Mindflayer, Niv's), but there is a noticeable lack of songs that would help priest casters specifically. This analysis is what prompted me to agree with Pharaun that a bonus to healing would be a useful addition.

The only other utility that I'm not seeing here is a + to proc chance, which I've advocated earlier. It would add more utility, but it is true that there are already many songs designed around melee dps.

While I'm here writing a novel, let me suggest the possibility of a bard archaic: I would love to see the group only melee boosts combined into a single raidwide archaic song which encompasses the benefits of blademaster, niv's, and mindflayer.
 
Add

Beneficial
Song of shields the Rune song

Detrimental
Song of dawn ( jolt )



And Archanic like a 30% overhaste song with ac and procc raid wide song would be sweet
 
He was telling me to add them to the list of raid songs we use. Done.

I don't really want to do away with any current Relic utility, which is why I recommended for the archaic to combine the Ancient Mindflayer, Niv's Harmonic, and Blademaster; and make it raidwide. I Meant for overhaste to stay on warcry only, but of course it's all debatable at this point.
 
4% healing slapped onto hymn, and hymn's deathsave has also been improved to 8%. That's really the last buffs I'm willing to give bards for now.
 
From what I know second hand, Bard's do not have an archaic because there is really nothing else that we need. It was suggested to be an upgrade to blademaster, but that would be extremely overpowered.

Fine by me, having a full songbook already = win
 
Heh, from what I heard secondhand, there wasn't a bard archaic because the powers that be couldn't think of a good one. =P

I suppose we should just ask, rather than relying on what we've heard secondhand.

Can someone in-the-know explain why there hasn't been a bard archaic implemented yet?
 
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