Bard Relics

[Pharaun]

The three bard relics, Lceas Lament, Hymn of the Savior, and Warcry of Tarhyl should be looked at and modified so that they have more usefullness in the raid game.

First let's look at Lceas Lament. With mana regen from spells capped, almost everyone will be at max FT just from JB,WoN, beast crack, etc, so there is no need at all to sing Lceas Lament. The way I understand it, Relic spells drop from raids, for raids, so for this spell to have no use on raids sucks. Raising the mana cap or anything like that would probably be overpowering, but mabye making it that the HP regen portion is more powerful would be a viable solution.

Next is Hymn of the Savior. The only time I have ever seen this sung on a raid is when we had 3 bards and the third needed something to sing. While it is an interesting song, it's pretty much useless when you only have 1 or 2 bards on the raid. One suggestion would be a relic mez for bards. Level 64 max for 3-5 ticks, or AE 63 max witih no recast. Another suggestion would be a raidwide upgrade to Song of the Mindflayer.

Last is Warcry of Tarhyl. It would be nice if the haste component was added back to this, or if a proc was added, so that it's not worthless when you have a beastlord around. It kind of sucks when a beastlords non relic buff makes a bards relic buff useless.

 

[Wiz]

I could give Lcea's a minimum + mana regen that is unaffected by the cap, say 5. That wouldn't be too horribly unbalancing and would give it a real use again.

And yeah, something needs to be done about the beastlord vs bard + spell damage. I'm thinking about taking the current power of the beastlord buff and dividing it between beastlords and bards (ie, bards provide 10%, beastlords provide 10%)

 

[Pharaun]

That would be pretty awesome, I don't think I've used the spell in over a year.

 

[Julon]

Thanks Wiz. It'll be great to use lceas again besides kites.

As far as the death save song goes, I'd love love love for new mez to replace it. I don't think it would take too much from enchanters for bards to have the ability to mez level 64 mobs. But if a relic mez was introduced, it would be nice to have it be very reliable and effective. The longer duration would be a life saver and a resist mod would truly make it a relic.

I've used the death save song twice: once when i first got it and it was shiny and new and once on an alt ndhk raid for giggles. A relic mez that could be realiable and effective would be used all the time.

A raid wide mindflayer would be pretty neat too, but I think an offensive song is preferable to just another buff song that goes into the melody.

 

[Latten]

How about make a upgrade for ancient mezz to the relic mezz . like dreams of marrlow gets a rewamp so it dont get resisted so much.

 

[Allielyn]

Im not sure I like the idea of an ancient being replaced by a relic. Do any other classes' ancients become useless upon receipt of a relic?

 

[hooden]

Im not sure I like the idea of an ancient being replaced by a relic. Do any other classes' ancients become useless upon receipt of a relic?

I don't any classes replace ancients. That doesn't mean I don't think a lot of people would change their ancients for an upgrade to a nice spell (or a worthwhile one, clerics ).

 

[Pharaun]

And yeah, something needs to be done about the beastlord vs bard + spell damage. I'm thinking about taking the current power of the beastlord buff and dividing it between beastlords and bards (ie, bards provide 10%, beastlords provide 10%)

Each spell does what, 20% spell damage right now? I don't think that halving both spells so that they have to be used together to obtain the full effect that they have right now is the way to go. I think that they should both be left 20% so that we aren't taking any utility away from beastlords, but we are able to still provide the same amount of spell focus if there is not one on the raid. Adding the haste component back to it, or a proc to it, would be the best way to go in my opinion. It doesnt take anything away from either class, but makes the Fiery warcry of tarhyl feel more like a relic spell rather than just a beastlord buff that doesnt take up a spell slot.

 

[volvov2]

The Lcea change sounds decent, but i'm still not sure that it would be as useful as other relics.

I would love to see a change to the useless AE deathsave relic, adding a raidwide rbow stackable 100 DD proc or so to it would be awesome, that way we still get the deathsave chance, and a little extra DPS to the raid as well.

 

[Allielyn]

Or perhaps a significant + proc chance increase might be useful.

 

[soba]

I'm thinking about taking the current power of the beastlord buff and dividing it between beastlords and bards (ie, bards provide 10%, beastlords provide 10%)

I'd really hate to have utility taken away from Beastlords when there are other options available, if this has to be done could Cunning get a -aggro boost, or just changed completely from a caster buff to a melee buff, +melee crit and -aggro? I suppose it could also remain a caster buff but be -aggro and add to spell crit instead of adding to base spell damage.

 

[Wiz]

Each spell does what, 20% spell damage right now? I don't think that halving both spells so that they have to be used together to obtain the full effect that they have right now is the way to go. I think that they should both be left 20% so that we aren't taking any utility away from beastlords, but we are able to still provide the same amount of spell focus if there is not one on the raid. Adding the haste component back to it, or a proc to it, would be the best way to go in my opinion. It doesnt take anything away from either class, but makes the Fiery warcry of tarhyl feel more like a relic spell rather than just a beastlord buff that doesnt take up a spell slot.

Actually, you're kind of right here, adding haste would free up a song slot too, for hymn or whatever. Consider it done.

 

[iaeolan]

Hurray for doing away with dps group and people crying because they aren't in it

 

[articbre]

If the consideration for the relic mez to replace hymn of the savoiur, I would consider it proper for the mez to use up 150-300 mana. That way it doesn't take anything away from enchanters, and it won't make it over powered for the bard as in they couldn't keep the mob mezzed indefinitely. I like the ideas to Fiery warcry though.

 

[marid2k2]

Or perhaps a significant + proc chance increase might be useful.

i agree with Allie on this one, having a raid wide weapon proc rate increase would be nice, and not overly overpowering since proc dps is on the low side anyways.

 

[volvov2]

What about adding Psalm of the Four resists to hymn of the savior? Death save and resists seem to go hand in hand, I think it would make sense for there to be a resist buff relic.

 

[Allielyn]

While the idea is intriguing, I would also not like to see other 65 spells completely replaced by relics. Is this common among other classes?

 

[volvov2]

talisman of the panther -> essence of the wild

 

[iaeolan]

What about adding Psalm of the Four resists to hymn of the savior? Death save and resists seem to go hand in hand, I think it would make sense for there to be a resist buff relic.

I don't know. Pot4 is pretty powerful in itself, pretty much as relic as you can get. Didn't the resists on it already get nerfed as well as the instrument mods on all-instrument items?

It's the rarest and most sought after 65 bard song and could be easily skipped if this were replaced by a relic.



How about keep deathsave, add healing crits/focus?

 

[Allielyn]

I'd just love to see more utility all around. That's what the bard is about: utility. While we do have a few lines that get upgrades (hp/mana regen, mez, haste) many many of our songs merely add more utility, while the lower level versions gain in effectiveness as we level, so nothing is lost.

For this reason, the deathsave and the spell dmg reducer are welcome additions to the spell lineup. Unfortunately, for extremely difficult-to-get relics and when compared to other bard relics, the deathsave is just not used.

One could up the deathsave %. AT 30% chance to deathsave and +30% hp when it goes off it would be a welcome addition to any raid.

Another song lineup that doesn't get recent upgraded versions includes the charm line (the last version of which caps out at level 54). While I would LOVE a higher level mez, I'd not like to see my ancient replaced.

Or for something completely different, I do like the idea of a + proc chance increase, even 100% increase (this sounds like a lot, until you realize that +100% on 5% of melee dps (which is a high estimate for most melees' procs) is a mere 5% increase in overall melee dps. It adds utility,

Any other ideas for Unique bard songs, or ones that don't get recent upgrades, would be great.

P.S. I still would rather not see upgrades to recent spells like the mez line and pot4, as this is not in general keeping with bard songs in general, and it limits the use of other hard-to-get spells.