What's up with no mana regen after death/rez?

Imagine the possibilities, if each person would camp out a series 2 charcs at the raid point (or grind point for that matter) and play 2 charcs, when and if anything adverse happend, they could just wash rinse repeat logging on their alternates en masse. (I am sure there are guilds doing this).

Disposable charcs! Because its not the level 65 Warrior tanking a mob, its the kid behind the monitor, right? It isnt a cleric medding up mana, its the single mom, right?

People forget, EQ got a bad name just like D&D did, because people took it too serious, the battle of casual vs. professional (I use to use hardcore but that sensationalizes the difference between healthy and not).

Some changes are implemented to counteract those of you who play this game at abnormal levels who attempt to circumvent intended game mechanics. Everyone, just like irl, seems to essentially want everything, easier, quicker like right now. Gotta be lvl 65, with 500 aa, with all the bestest of the best equip, unlocked the hardest dungeon every imagined, ubar! Well, things are done to attempt to undo those who abuse and sometimes innocents are caught in the melee. I think that what made more sense about that attitude was that it was against a corporation (Verant/Sony), the man! Fight the man. Down with them and their vision (tm). Well here, there is essentially no man, its seemingly a few people who took time to build a fantastic knock off of the best online roleplaying game ever and are attempting to make it pure and fun. I do not think they intended this place for some of the evils that have came into light that have corrupted the enviroment, it spreads like a malignant plague. It does, greed is horrible like that. So now, some of the everyday people might be caught in the mix and it is considered a caculated loss of civilian casualties.

Maybe this is what it was like in the Garden of Eden after Eve tricked Adam into eatting the foribidden fruit, our garden is tainted and now God is laying down some smack the best way he knows how.
















**If you were offended by the truth stated here then instead of trying to come up with something witty, improve your personal and/or professional lives or even maybe donate your energy to help at the animal shelter or spend time at an elderly care center.
 
No, I mean, I have no idea what your post says. What the hell are "disposable charcs". What do single moms and collateral damage have to do with fighting the man. And eden? What the hell?
 
Okay.


"Disposable charcs" (player characters that dont mean much and are essentially bots. Means just like anything that is disposable in the sense that you can toss it to the side and use something else in replace of the original.) Some people do not work on their reputation of one charc and instead, just level up multiple charcs without 'souls'.

"Single mom" is an example that was used just like the kid, who are you, me and those who also play SoD. Meaning, is it the charc, like my Dwarf Cleric healing the tank or is it me the man who is sitting behind the monitor. The purpose of this example was to establish that a person such as yourself or myself plays 1 charc and then there are those who play multi charcs to get to their objective. For me, I play one charc and when I do anything for that charc it is with that charc and then there are those who have to operate multiple charcs to achieve satisfaction, positive results or whatever they are looking for.

"Collateral Damage" was use to coin the situation that when Admins have to change things that were intented to stop an exploit or a method of abuse with game mechanics that innocent people may suffer from changes. This is something that is considered when anything is changed adversely within the population.

"The Man" is usually the side the working man or the underdog fights against. When dealing with a corporation that you pay money to, generally the majority will agree that anything that they can gain, by either taking advantage of something or look at it as they had it coming to them because they are disadvantaged.

"Eden" is what I would of considered this place, being solace to those who come for pure excitement of what an online roleplay game is suppose to be. Unfortunately over time, grievers, disrespectful, whiny, souless people show their face and taint things. Which end results are what are some of the things we are seeing. Ofcourse not all changes are made as a defense mechanism, I am sure some changes are there to help shape what Admins want to see.
 
Geez, just play the game, it's a lot more fun when you don't try to make it into some sociology project.
 
Lyte said:
For another game, as soon as aggro is lost on bind-rushable mobs, the mobs either instantly regenerated full HP, or had 10,000% regeneration. Simply put, if you lost, then you lost. There was no way to get back into the fight after death. Also, no mobs should have very slow HP regen. This makes it so that even far to reach mobs become bind-rushable.

This is a good alternative fix and should focus on mobs that have bind points nearby, and/or mobs that are easily reachable by some other means after a death.

For most raid bosses and regular dungeon play where bind-rushing is an invalid tactic (since it is too far to run to the boss to bind-rush), this change greatly increases the downtime required to get back to gaming--and downtime isn't fun :)

This change also discourages raids from trying new strategies on bosses, because let's say a boss takes 5 attempts as you try 5 different strategies... the new changes just added 50 minutes to that process--and that's 50 minutes of doing nothing but sitting there watching res effects. It does encourage raids to begin camping a cleric bot for the sole purpose of res'ing people after a try. ;P

Of course... it makes Lifeward all the more invaluable. :D
Click to expand...

Massive HP regen or instantly healing to full only accounts for complete wipes. There are situations where you could kill a mob by trickling people in over time as they die and res up(which this helps to counteract).
 
Wiz said:
Just Silence isn't enough, people can keep a mob choked by throwing melees on it until all casters have lost death effects.

You just have to deal with 4 minutes extra downtime, considering how much med change lowered downtime I think you can live with it.
Click to expand...

Actually, I was not speaking about the attack penalty at all, but only the zero mana until rez effects are gone. That particular sugggestion should have been worded this way...

Leave the attack penalty as it is, but change the caster penalty to disallow casting, but allow mana regen. I think this would effectively eliminate zerging, but allow casters to be FM when rez effects faded instead of zero mana. Essentially, melee can't attack and casters cant cast, but everyone will be full hp and full mana once res effects fade.

Just a suggestion to try to eliminate some of the delays caused by a wipe, but still make zerging impossible (or nearly so). I am not convinced it is the best idea, but just tossing it out there (along with the other ideas) to generate discussion and see if we can collectively come up with a less painful solution to the zerg problem.
 
Lytec and Aarielly's suggestions both offer realistic solutions. I'm rather partial to Lytec's since trickling people into most mobs in the raid game is not even an option where 1v1 the best characters are totally ineffective without ample supplemental damage and proper heals so... I still think the fear of being banned is a sufficient deterrent. Lay down the law and they will comply (when I say "they" I mean atleast the majority of the population - esp. high levels). I guarentee it. Honestly, half (I'm being generous) of high level players value their characters progression more than most real life objectives, lol. Only idiots with nothing to lose would risk using a zerg strat KNOWING its a bannable offense.
 
I'd love to know who's actually sucessfully used this strategy. Mobs simply regen way too fast for this, not to mention the melee's you would throw at it wouldnt be doing any damage for 2 minutes...and would go down a hell of a lot faster than that. Possible sure, but it would have to be timed just right, throwing one after another, and you'd have to have at least 5 or so to throw at the thing in the meantime (mostly because of loading times on death, even 10 seconds w/out aggro is enough for a mob to heal up quite a bit from what I've seen.). Not to mention you'd need an mt, w/out fatigue ready for when the casters are to keep aggro. I would wager anyone that has that many people and that much organization to run it, probably has more than enough to take the mob regularly. Which kind of defeats the purpose. Also downtime for casters is going to be alot higher than just the 2 minutes it takes for df to wear. Not to mention pet classes, who will have to wait the 2 minutes, wait about another 1, cast pet, wait a few more seconds, cast petbuffs, wait another minute and a half or so to med to full. Not to mention it will take way way longer if anyone in their group is still fighting, assuming of course the proximity aggro still has not changed or the casting lowmed change is still in.
 
Xeldan said:
Massive HP regen or instantly healing to full only accounts for complete wipes. There are situations where you could kill a mob by trickling people in over time as they die and res up(which this helps to counteract).
Click to expand...

Hmm, the mobs I was aware of where bind-rushing was possible, the fix I proposed would have solved the situation.

There must be mobs capable of using the strategy you suggested of trickling people in as they die and res up that I am unaware of; therefore, isn't it more ideal to focus on these few encounters of the game, rather than a change that affects the mechanics of the entire game? If there are 5 encounters where trickling is possible--for example--then these 5 encounters could be adjusted to mitigate that strategy?

As it stands, I can't really understand the justification of increasing downtime for regular exp groups and most raid groups, just because of a few groups abusing a handful of encounters.
 
You could make bind rushing to beat a raid encounter against the rules just like it is against the rules to TP after stacking your DOTs to kill other raid encounters.

That way only people who are effected are those who would be doing it instead of the entire server.
 
i don't see how bind rushing would work seriously. you would have to plan it out perfectly in the perfect place. names aren't usually at the beginning of a zone. plus raiding at 65, i'm a rogue mind you, i can only last maybe 4 seconds max WITH buffs. and from closest bind then to zoning in to the zone(s) to get to the named zone, then hoping no respawns are up that are in the way to named mob (for non-rogues obviously, sneak/hide ftw.) to not train your clerics/casters that are waiting to med. i think that honestly takes too much coordination and especially time to pull off than to just start over and try it again and perfect your strat down.

i wouldn't be worried about it, unless yeah, it is infact a problem. and if that actually does become a problem...wow, yeah i wanna know who does this.

to be honest, i never liked the idea that a wizard/mage/etc could med, nuke, dish out dmg to mob immediately after dieing (assuming they weren't in combat) while i could hit once, press backstab once. and then wait until rez effects wore off. didn't think it was too fair for the meleers even if it did benefit the group as a whole.
 
Maybe make it so only detrimental spells cannot be cast with death effects/rez effects on but allow people to med and buff back up
 
Tryfaen said:
Maybe make it so only detrimental spells cannot be cast with death effects/rez effects on but allow people to med and buff back up
Click to expand...

That would definitely be good too.
 
My point is from this situation..

Raid dies..
Clerics cant bind in raid zone and therefore either have to run atleast 2 zones or port back to raid zone. (ie Darkwoods or most dungeons for 60ish chars)
Wizards/Druids have to wait full death fatigue to port clerics back to rez.
Once clerics get back they have to rez everyone.
After rez they will presumably rez themselves..
Raid waits full death fatigue again.
Raid buffs..
Raid waits for full mana again.
Raid proceeds..and if they die, Rinse and repeat.

I play the game because i find it fun.. I do realize that its just a game.. I realize this is just to avoid people abusing the quick recovery after death. But for those who are just getting
level 60ish and starting out these new dragons and learning their behavoir and the stragety to kill them, this makes raiding quite painful... I can see how this change doesnt bother those who have
already learned the strageties and don't die as much, but for the newcomers it certainly feels like a big waste of time.

Before the changes it took half the time, if not more, to recover from a raid wipe.. When your dealing with casual gamers, an extra 2 hours for a raid is a tough thing to ask..
So I guess my hope is that maybe we can come up with some way to ease this problem for the casual players who still want to raid and do some of the end material. For most
of us we already feel we spent way to much time on the original everquest.. We saw SoD as a less time demanding everquest. When i started i saw Translocators, no running to
my corpse, faster exp, etc. as a dream come true..

I already had a tough time dealing with portals and the extra time required to run to a portal zone, gather all the portals, etc.

All I really want is for the admins to see that there are people that enjoy the somewhat ease of SoD compared to live. I keep seeing all these people posting about how they want
more time sinks etc. and I wanted to post how some of my friends and I feel.

Thanks,
Bagok 57 SHD
Knosis 57 SHM
 
Dwal said:
Imagine the possibilities, if each person would camp out a series 2 charcs at the raid point (or grind point for that matter) and play 2 charcs, when and if anything adverse happend, they could just wash rinse repeat logging on their alternates en masse. (I am sure there are guilds doing this).

Disposable charcs! Because its not the level 65 Warrior tanking a mob, its the kid behind the monitor, right? It isnt a cleric medding up mana, its the single mom, right?

People forget, EQ got a bad name just like D&D did, because people took it too serious, the battle of casual vs. professional (I use to use hardcore but that sensationalizes the difference between healthy and not).

Some changes are implemented to counteract those of you who play this game at abnormal levels who attempt to circumvent intended game mechanics. Everyone, just like irl, seems to essentially want everything, easier, quicker like right now. Gotta be lvl 65, with 500 aa, with all the bestest of the best equip, unlocked the hardest dungeon every imagined, ubar! Well, things are done to attempt to undo those who abuse and sometimes innocents are caught in the melee. I think that what made more sense about that attitude was that it was against a corporation (Verant/Company), the man! Fight the man. Down with them and their vision (tm). Well here, there is essentially no man, its seemingly a few people who took time to build a fantastic knock off of the best online roleplaying game ever and are attempting to make it pure and fun. I do not think they intended this place for some of the evils that have came into light that have corrupted the enviroment, it spreads like a malignant plague. It does, greed is horrible like that. So now, some of the everyday people might be caught in the mix and it is considered a caculated loss of civilian casualties.

Maybe this is what it was like in the Garden of Eden after Eve tricked Adam into eatting the foribidden fruit, our garden is tainted and now God is laying down some smack the best way he knows how.

**If you were offended by the truth stated here then instead of trying to come up with something witty, improve your personal and/or professional lives or even maybe donate your energy to help at the animal shelter or spend time at an elderly care center.
Click to expand...

What are you saying?

If I understand correctly, you should be against the changes, but you in fact are for them. You contradict yourself in the same post.
 
I've seen some decent solutions offered in this thread. In my opinion, this has to be changed soon because right now this new rez effects are terrible for even the normal grind. It takes a situation that already sucks (wiping) and makes it way worse. For the small minority of kids that are doing this zerg tactic, you are making the entire server suffer unnecessary downtime. Just the other day I had two wipes in a grind session and blew about 30 minutes between ports back and res effects to get back on track(so wasteful imo). I really hope someone gets a solution approved.
 
First two paragraphs are moreso sarcasim and not the way I would like it to be. I am against the changes and enjoy things better with less downtime. I am sure things will get figured out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom