We All Love Monks, Here

I would much rather tie it to an aggregate stat like Strength.. that way the power increase still goes up by tier but it is not tied to one slot and requires, as most power upgrades do, a comprehensive set of higher tier gear to take advantage of it all. I think 500 strength is reasonable for bleeding-edge Monkery or I could make it a different stat.

Anyway here is what is coded in currently as an update:

- Monks have a discipline system where their 6 combat moves have extra abilities under certain circumstances:

-- NORMAL STANCE
-- No moves have power-forms (pure discipline generation)

-- AGGRESSIVE STANCE:
-- Kick now has the small lifetap
-- Round kick will now do an AE attack
-- Flying kick has a large increase to base damage

-- DEFENSIVE STANCE:
-- Tiger claw will generate extra aggro
-- Eagle strike will stun or interrupt
-- Dragon punch / tail thing will kb/root

-- MOST OTHER STANCES:
-- Removed (I am looking for how to squeeze Ethereal back in here... I will probably just put it on a timer unrelated to discipline).

- A mob is never behind a Monk, ever. (PERMANENT /s 6).
- Flat Hand-to-hand bonus removed and looking for a way to integrate reasonably with gear progression.

- Monk Aux-Tanking Suite:
-- A Monk aux-tanking a mob raises the aux cap for that mob slightly.
-- A Monk has slightly increased aux contribution.
-- If armed, a Monk takes less damage from a mob it is aux-tanking.
-- If armed, a Monk innately dodges more attacks from a mob it is aux-tanking.

This is getting closer to my vision of a more durable fighter with a small amount of interactivity in combat choices and the possibility of adding utility along with the damage and tankiness one expects of a Monk. Also, permanent /s 6 solidifies their role as pullers without stepping on anything else in the raid game.
 
I like all of that.

STR could work well as a scaling stat, although some gear might need to be looked over again. Marza gear just plain has less stats on it than previous stuff, so a t11-12 monk actually has a lot more than a T13 monk. (Compare Cinn and Lleoc)
 
I don't know if this would work for a monk, but crazy idea here, what about mana being the scaled thing? Alot of their gear gets mana from being gear that is shared with beastlords, and it would widen the pool of things to gear with for a monk. It shows up on fomelo but I dunno if its accessible in game due to client/class restrictions. If your going to look at the gear for the melee classes soon, that might get looked at at the same time. Mana is typically based on strength of mind, so their discipline/chi/strength of mind/wthvr could be added to by the mind enhancing effects of the gear. Again, just shooting from the hip here, but this way there are not getting double duty from stacking STR or HP or something and adding something new to the table.
 
The problem with this is it makes all gear with 0 mana essentially 'bad' for monks. This is the main reason I suggested HP - it is that stat that most consistently, and evenly increases with tier.
 
Strength would work to scale fists with, just keep in mind that high end gear has less overall than like t10-11 and that you also wouldn't have any Str from weapons since this is for bare fisting. Raxton is the only top 5 monk with a lot of strength, and that's mostly because he doesn't have Taesh boots or belt (which are easily the best in slot items for monk, and both have 0 strength).

HP or AC are like the only stats that actually continue to scale all the way up to t13 unless some Marza items get looked at and have their stats bumped. The other effects the stats provide at the high end are so minuscule that I don't think overall balance changes much one way or another.
 
can I hijack this thread.. Reading the previous posts bards do rly need some help tanking.. Not that they can't tank and do it well.. Its just were a plate wearing class and all is there anyway we could get a tank stance better than \s 3 seems like everyothe class gets one even chain wearing rangers get a ballin parry stance

SLAAR SEZ: WAIT YOUR TURN, BARDS
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If the gear is going to be changed, don't worry about how the items are now... and there is always going to be trade-offs with gear, double-dipping some of these stats doesn't seem to fit, imo.
 
AngryCow said:
If the gear is going to be changed, don't worry about how the items are now... and there is always going to be trade-offs with gear, double-dipping some of these stats doesn't seem to fit, imo.
Click to expand...
Well that's the thing... Most t13 gear was balanced around having unique/powerful effects and had lower resists and stats to somewhat balance them. But now with procs and clickies nerfed, channeling nerfed, hp/AC decreased, etc they are not really "double dipping" at this point.
 
While I agree that some gear will need a looking-at, a quick query reveals that MANY T12+ Monk non-weapon items (in fact, about 150 total across ALL tiers) have 20 or more STR which is enough to hit 500 or at least close enough to suggest 500 as the 'reach goal' for the future (blame Sanctum for severely over-statting here, sorry!). I'll probably, for instance, throw some STR on Spires bracer though and things like that where it is obvious. By the way, the number of Monk-usable, non-weapon items with >= 20 DEX is nearly the same number, so I could swap to DEX and not even touch the BoPP. And if, in one or two slots, a Monk might have to choose between a great proc and 10 more punch-stat, I think we are mature enough to handle that decision.

I am a little relieved to see the possibility of stats being relevant again on the horizon. Maybe I'll save DEX for the Rogue fixer-upper.
 
Wouldn't scaling off of AGI make more sense for monks than STR/DEX?

Slaariel said:
-Rogues and Monks are both quick melee fighters. BUT Rogues are opportunistic and sneaky where monks are disciplined and careful. Where a Rogue would stealth up behind someone to avoid counterattack, a Monk approaches from the front and relies on his reflexes and training to avoid any counterattack.

- Monk are agile duellists, not tanks or "stop falling over randomly mid-fight".
Click to expand...
 
Best haste: 0 str
Best bracers (spires, undying): 0 str, 1 str
Best belt: 0 str
Best boots: 0 str
Best cloak: 10 str
Both t13 rings: 5 str
Best arms: 0 str

Being forced to use under-tier items to maximize H2H mod is a dumb situation that we're currently in, please don't make the new system have the exact same problem. If you're dead-set on using 500str, I sure hope more items than the monk spires wrist are adjusted accordingly.
 
Last edited:
Agility would actually make more sense as Monks are "agile" fighters. Even flows with the original 19 lbs. weight restriction we use to have. Speaking as a Mnk though I must agree that if Str is gonna be the stat I would like top tier gear to have some of it. Imho if you want to balance out barefist give weapons a special feature/trade off and you will instantly create a situation where the mnk has to consider which bonus he wants. DPS or Block? DPS or HP? DPS or Stats? DPS or survivability. Ideas like that. You can even create said situation with 2hb and give mnks a reason for all three.

  • I suggest 2hb have good aggro as anything you hit with a big stick is gonna be mad.
  • For H2H more Discipline generation which causes more DPS with special attacks.
  • and with one-handers increased block maybe? not sure on this one.
Also Fist of Fury can be like Enrage and Resilient defense. All you have to do is just apply a timer to it so you can't just say, "must fist of fury!" For h2h mod (i am just shooting this idea to see if anyone else can pick-up on a better idea from it) a small haste attached to it? like at 25 its only like 3% or something? Of course only applied if using bare-fist.

Anyways that is my take on said situation. Some of it kinda loops back to Tevinter's ideas about different reasons to use different weapons, and the reason I bring it up again is cause it is a good reason. For Knights 2hander means DPS and 1hander/shield mean tank. Rangers 1handers mean Tank 2handers mean Tanky DPS and Bow means DPS. Warriors also abide by the whole 2hander DPS and 1handers Tanky DPS (till they get scythe anyways). Again this is just my opinion from being a mnk for many years.
 
Will the 2.5 ui allow players to see total stats over the cap?

How will this system scale h2h damage for tier 14+ if everyone at t13 or (12,11,10) are already 500str?
 
You can see your overcap stats on Fomelo, anyway, regardless of how the newer client handles this (I don't actually know how much changes). Anyway, like I said, I'd happily move to DEX which would have the opposite problem since all Sanctum Monk gear has like 40-50 DEX... I dunno, I understand where you are coming from, but it's really okay if one or two pieces of gear are great for reasons other than higher hand-to-hand damage. Remember that this doesn't affect weapon damage really at all! It is something that will be looked at, and seriously, but there exist items like Signet of the Bruiser that are appropriately high-tier and contribute 2+ slots worth of STR each while something like Fel'Talla is a dynamite item even without STR attached. Just looking at those two items, on their own, one appears to have 'too much' STR for a single slot, and the other 'too little' but the combination would be very effective under the new stats idea. Now repeat for the remaining 18 slots and you can get a more complete picture of reward diversity and item coordination that I don't think is a bad thing.
 
Is there some reason I am unaware of that tier 13 monks shouldn't be easily stat capped for whatever stat is chosen? are we adding more tiers?
 
Several things to clear up in 1 line that's good and efficient:

1) Many stats for all classes are already hard-capped.
2) The future of the game is wide-open.
3) I never mentioned a 'cap' for STR at all in any post.
 
I don't care what stat is picked as long as I don't have to go get under tiered items that were previously awful but are all of a sudden nearly required.

You know, exactly what happened with the H2H overcap system that everyone agrees was bad and should not be repeated.
 
Harkening back to the old DnD days, what about WIS? Monks get all sorts of bonuses for having a decent WIS mod in our tabletop forefather, with much the same lore/logic that I think we are looking for in here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom