darksabbath
Dalayan Master
As he said:
Or, choose somebody to run in and eat the charm. Did Maggot a few times back in the day, never had a monk tank him at all. Just used twin tanks, or sent somebody in first to eat the charm.
We All Love Monks, Here
- Thread starter Slaariel
- Start date
donfolstar3
Dalayan Master
Questions from reading the patch notes without logging on to test:
What does H2H mod do now?
How exactly is discipline generated?
Are Beastlords effected by these changes?
Are skill procs 100%? What does the AA Skill of Hand do now?
Did AA Discipline of Body change? Increasing base damage always seemed weaksauce, worse now.
How will Ethereal work? It seems like exhaustion would really throw a monkey wrench in this new system AND that ethereal would last next to no time at all unless you have already generated discipline.
What does H2H mod do now?
How exactly is discipline generated?
Are Beastlords effected by these changes?
Are skill procs 100%? What does the AA Skill of Hand do now?
Did AA Discipline of Body change? Increasing base damage always seemed weaksauce, worse now.
How will Ethereal work? It seems like exhaustion would really throw a monkey wrench in this new system AND that ethereal would last next to no time at all unless you have already generated discipline.
frogdogy684
Dalayan Beginner
Okay, 1st off Mnk stance 10, I'm not sure how that will effect Mnk pulling but just a thought for some to think on.
2nd, the Stam generation is a bit slow, but I haven't had time to parse so I can't say what that does to the DPS yet, but this 1 is also just for thoughts.
3rd, a possibility, is anyone else gettign the feeling their flyign kick aa (ripo Flying kicks) is using stam when in aggressive? Is it kickin in for non-activated kicks and then doing like normal dmg? anyways,
4th, whats the scaling's with the Dex/Str? and where does it end. 305 str/dex? This I would like to know
5th the Lifetap enough? I dont want serious sustain, but 100 pts for that much stam is a bit much depending on situations. If im lifetapping in aggressive it means someone else is tankin and im takin dmg from whatever, 100 pt heal is kinda like a spit in the bucket. again not complaining just not sure the stam usage fits the amount, but ill update that idea as I do. I want all the other mnks opinion on this 1.
Also 2 questions. Are mnks stunnable from the back? if not will that come or was that idea scrapped?
2nd The fury of Fist Style or whatever, Is that coming soon as well or was that Idea scrapped as well? i kinda liked the idea of a burst Style, but I'm mainly just curious
also, the stam regen tome stance still appears but doesnt work, (you keeping that for some Dev coding reason?) and what does this tome provide us? and the Exhaustion tome.
and one last thing, The whole "Your kick SHATTERS your opponents defenses!" emote. whats that exactly? the aux thing?
(I am hearing a possibility of Kick lifetap is scaling with Kick skill. if so my thoughts on Kick lifetap may change.
2nd, the Stam generation is a bit slow, but I haven't had time to parse so I can't say what that does to the DPS yet, but this 1 is also just for thoughts.
3rd, a possibility, is anyone else gettign the feeling their flyign kick aa (ripo Flying kicks) is using stam when in aggressive? Is it kickin in for non-activated kicks and then doing like normal dmg? anyways,
4th, whats the scaling's with the Dex/Str? and where does it end. 305 str/dex? This I would like to know
5th the Lifetap enough? I dont want serious sustain, but 100 pts for that much stam is a bit much depending on situations. If im lifetapping in aggressive it means someone else is tankin and im takin dmg from whatever, 100 pt heal is kinda like a spit in the bucket. again not complaining just not sure the stam usage fits the amount, but ill update that idea as I do. I want all the other mnks opinion on this 1.
Also 2 questions. Are mnks stunnable from the back? if not will that come or was that idea scrapped?
2nd The fury of Fist Style or whatever, Is that coming soon as well or was that Idea scrapped as well? i kinda liked the idea of a burst Style, but I'm mainly just curious
also, the stam regen tome stance still appears but doesnt work, (you keeping that for some Dev coding reason?) and what does this tome provide us? and the Exhaustion tome.
and one last thing, The whole "Your kick SHATTERS your opponents defenses!" emote. whats that exactly? the aux thing?
(I am hearing a possibility of Kick lifetap is scaling with Kick skill. if so my thoughts on Kick lifetap may change.
Last edited:
Dinadass
Dalayan Pious Diety
So a monk who is offtanking or soloing/boxing now needs to either stay in s2 and lifetap or be in s3 and hope the mob can be stunned? How about a self heal or something in s3 instead of the knockback+root? The lifetap is a very large decrease in self sustain compared to the combo, plus we used to be able to lifetap while in s3 or s15.
Is s2 and using flying kick supposed to be a dps improvement over the old dps combo and s2/s15?
This restriction to s2 and s3 doesn't make much sense given that each stance uses different attacks anyway.
Is s2 and using flying kick supposed to be a dps improvement over the old dps combo and s2/s15?
This restriction to s2 and s3 doesn't make much sense given that each stance uses different attacks anyway.
Dinadass
Dalayan Pious Diety
So uh stance 2 and spamming flying kick is like a 40-50% DPS loss compared to old s2 and dps combo according to several different monks I know that have been parsing, across a variety of tiers.
I think whatever the flying kick effect is supposed to be is not actually doing anything.
I think whatever the flying kick effect is supposed to be is not actually doing anything.
frogdogy684
Dalayan Beginner
Do those mnks have Force of body done? cause im not noticing a huge DPS loss "yet"
I must agree with everyone though, Nerfing all teh classes to up Mnks is a bad idea. I would go as far as to say Unnerf the items and leave Mnk h2h with nothing till u come up with a better system. Cause ALL classes suffer for 1 class. Ain't Right. I'd say, go with either 1 stat to minimize the nerf OR find a better solution.
Someone mentioned Armor on gloves for the modifier. I find this a good idea. every 10 AC is like 1pt of dmg or whatever you do with h2h now. Seems like a fair and balanced way to work things as most armor on gloves is not OP. Lets take Lleoc's gloves for instance. right then and there thats 50 armor with AC aug. if u did 1 pt of dmg per 10 AC and Lleoc is finally back where h2h was with 25 skill.
I must agree with everyone though, Nerfing all teh classes to up Mnks is a bad idea. I would go as far as to say Unnerf the items and leave Mnk h2h with nothing till u come up with a better system. Cause ALL classes suffer for 1 class. Ain't Right. I'd say, go with either 1 stat to minimize the nerf OR find a better solution.
Someone mentioned Armor on gloves for the modifier. I find this a good idea. every 10 AC is like 1pt of dmg or whatever you do with h2h now. Seems like a fair and balanced way to work things as most armor on gloves is not OP. Lets take Lleoc's gloves for instance. right then and there thats 50 armor with AC aug. if u did 1 pt of dmg per 10 AC and Lleoc is finally back where h2h was with 25 skill.
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Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
2 parses
Parse 1, bare fist, +5 h2h, 445 STR/477DEX (fomelo). Combine BP, GoE, Rfocus, SV, Both shaman stats, and pitch dark vial buff
White con mob from front on 12/1/2014 in 2249sec
Total
--- DMG: 1074614 (100%) @ 478 dps (478 sdps)
Lowako
--- DMG: 1074614 (100%) @ 478 dps (478 sdps)
Special: 7: 7th yr vet G: Glyph K: Kiss S: Staunch X: Slain $: Saved by DI
Produced by GamParse v1.0.3
Accuracy: Punch:70% vs miss, 62.7% vs evade+miss
Kick: 79.8% vs miss, 71.3% vs evade+miss
Parse 2, Same buffs, Horok MH/Barefist OH, 470 STR, 502 DEX(from horok) still +5 h2h
White con mob from front on 12/1/2014 in 2245sec
Total
--- DMG: 1074672 (100%) @ 479 dps (479 sdps)
Lowako
--- DMG: 1074672 (100%) @ 479 dps (479 sdps)
Special: 7: 7th yr vet G: Glyph K: Kiss S: Staunch X: Slain $: Saved by DI
Produced by GamParse v1.0.3
Accuracy: Crush:72% vs miss, 64.4% vs evade+miss
Punch:70.5% vs miss, vs evade+miss 63.3%
Kick:80.1% vs miss, vs evade+miss 71.2%
Parse 1, bare fist, +5 h2h, 445 STR/477DEX (fomelo). Combine BP, GoE, Rfocus, SV, Both shaman stats, and pitch dark vial buff
White con mob from front on 12/1/2014 in 2249sec
Total
--- DMG: 1074614 (100%) @ 478 dps (478 sdps)
Lowako
--- DMG: 1074614 (100%) @ 478 dps (478 sdps)
Special: 7: 7th yr vet G: Glyph K: Kiss S: Staunch X: Slain $: Saved by DI
Produced by GamParse v1.0.3
Accuracy: Punch:70% vs miss, 62.7% vs evade+miss
Kick: 79.8% vs miss, 71.3% vs evade+miss
Parse 2, Same buffs, Horok MH/Barefist OH, 470 STR, 502 DEX(from horok) still +5 h2h
White con mob from front on 12/1/2014 in 2245sec
Total
--- DMG: 1074672 (100%) @ 479 dps (479 sdps)
Lowako
--- DMG: 1074672 (100%) @ 479 dps (479 sdps)
Special: 7: 7th yr vet G: Glyph K: Kiss S: Staunch X: Slain $: Saved by DI
Produced by GamParse v1.0.3
Accuracy: Crush:72% vs miss, 64.4% vs evade+miss
Punch:70.5% vs miss, vs evade+miss 63.3%
Kick:80.1% vs miss, vs evade+miss 71.2%
-every single skill needs to SCALE somehow with stats-
I am doing tremendously less dps, I would post parses but someone else who cares more will. I think I am taking more damage also but who knows maybe that is intended. I am definitely doing significantly less dps, like half? maybe less than that? less dps bare handed, less dps with weapons, less dps in agressive stance less dps while using flying kick. I am getting destroyed by mobs that I used to destroy. I have soloed ladys room in elds probably 100 times and I couldn't even kill the advisor spawn, like couldn't kill the first mob(advisor) before having to feign.
-every single skill needs to SCALE somehow with stats-
Whatever flying kick is supposed to do either it's not happening or it's not doing nearly enough
If it is "gains a large DMG bonus" then it would have to make it thousands of percent better because flying kick does jack all dps on it's own for a t13 monk it is like 2% of your dmg? maybe???
-every single skill needs to SCALE somehow with stats-
100 point lifetap is fucking awesome at level 52. Flying kick is super cool when you hit for 20's
/s 15 is devastating to lose,
/s 14 is unusable without stamina.
life-tap needs to be moved over into defensive tree and stun needs to be moved to aggressive.
All of the kicks need to stay in the aggressive tree for boots procs.
-every single skill needs to SCALE somehow with stats-
I am doing tremendously less dps, I would post parses but someone else who cares more will. I think I am taking more damage also but who knows maybe that is intended. I am definitely doing significantly less dps, like half? maybe less than that? less dps bare handed, less dps with weapons, less dps in agressive stance less dps while using flying kick. I am getting destroyed by mobs that I used to destroy. I have soloed ladys room in elds probably 100 times and I couldn't even kill the advisor spawn, like couldn't kill the first mob(advisor) before having to feign.
-every single skill needs to SCALE somehow with stats-
Whatever flying kick is supposed to do either it's not happening or it's not doing nearly enough
If it is "gains a large DMG bonus" then it would have to make it thousands of percent better because flying kick does jack all dps on it's own for a t13 monk it is like 2% of your dmg? maybe???
-every single skill needs to SCALE somehow with stats-
100 point lifetap is fucking awesome at level 52. Flying kick is super cool when you hit for 20's
/s 15 is devastating to lose,
/s 14 is unusable without stamina.
life-tap needs to be moved over into defensive tree and stun needs to be moved to aggressive.
All of the kicks need to stay in the aggressive tree for boots procs.
-every single skill needs to SCALE somehow with stats-
Dinadass
Dalayan Pious Diety
Just remove the stance restriction, there's no reason for it if the skills aren't being used for multiple effects in different stances anyway.
Sometimes I want to lifetap while I'm DPSing in a group/raid, sometimes I want to lifetap because I'm getting beat on and I'm trying to survive.
I used the dps combo while tanking sometimes even though it's an offensive thing generally.
The gimmicky stun+dd and other combos were wastes and so are some of these new things.
Lifetap combo on Susvain did 900-1000 damage depending on buffs, mob resists, etc every 15 seconds. New lifetap ends up being less than a third overall healing. Plus there's no avoidance+heal combo any more either so that's our only option. If you actually intend for us to be able to help aux tank sometimes, this ain't gonna cut it.
Sometimes I want to lifetap while I'm DPSing in a group/raid, sometimes I want to lifetap because I'm getting beat on and I'm trying to survive.
I used the dps combo while tanking sometimes even though it's an offensive thing generally.
The gimmicky stun+dd and other combos were wastes and so are some of these new things.
Lifetap combo on Susvain did 900-1000 damage depending on buffs, mob resists, etc every 15 seconds. New lifetap ends up being less than a third overall healing. Plus there's no avoidance+heal combo any more either so that's our only option. If you actually intend for us to be able to help aux tank sometimes, this ain't gonna cut it.
As far as i can tell you do not generate enough stamina to actually even use the effect every time it is up.
donfolstar3
Dalayan Master
So other than a huge loss in dps, loss in utility, and a new even more pointless limitation on special attacks what did monks gain here besides some aux tanking stuff? Were monks secretly the best class in the game in need of a gigantic nerf? Or were there too many monks so you wanted people to reroll or quit the server altogether? What is the point of the discipline system and attaching special attacks to stances if there is only one effect per attack?
Was any of this tested or run by someone who actually plays the class prior to the patch? Who stole Santa Troll's outfit? Are monks the new Paladin?
Was any of this tested or run by someone who actually plays the class prior to the patch? Who stole Santa Troll's outfit? Are monks the new Paladin?
sabuti
Dalayan Elder
looks like nothin gained lol. and hey pallies are baller dont h8
Zawnza
Dalayan Adventurer
So far, stamina generation needs to be buffed, the stance restriction does not make sense, flying kick seems like it does nothing, ethereal stance needs to not be tied to stamina and needs a straight cooldown, and also not being able to use ethereal stance while having death fatigue makes pulling on raids a bit slower( was able to use with death fatigue before patch), and also needs to be useable outside of combat because you aren't always counted as being in combat when pulling even though you're about to take damage.
Dinadass
Dalayan Pious Diety
I got to see the attack effects a few months ago and from what I can tell nothing was changed since then.
It really feels like the wrong version of these changes was patched in and instead of the finalized, balanced system we got the original alpha version that hadn't been tested or balanced or bug-checked or something.
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
things that should change:
FKick numbers seem kind of low, same with lifetap, i havent tested the others. Making the lifetap scale w/ str/dex or just being a 125 magic base lifetap would be ideal
Allow monks to not be effected by Dodge/Parry/Riposte, auxing is roughly a 7-8% Accuracy lost (thinking about it this would be great for the flying kick shatters defenses!!1) . Either that or monks do that super awkward circle strafe the entire boss fight.
Make Invuln stance a flat timer, one of its main appeals was using it out of combat and only having 40% stam to do that is pretty weak.
I havent got to test round kick or any of the other ones yet.
Force of body seems like a pretty bad thing for the way fkick dmg will work now and i've always thought the tome was not cool (slaariel has also always seemed to not like the just add more dmg thing). Maybe change this book to give monks a 2/4/6/8% chance( i think those are blademaster numbers) to flurry when using bare fist.
FKick numbers seem kind of low, same with lifetap, i havent tested the others. Making the lifetap scale w/ str/dex or just being a 125 magic base lifetap would be ideal
Allow monks to not be effected by Dodge/Parry/Riposte, auxing is roughly a 7-8% Accuracy lost (thinking about it this would be great for the flying kick shatters defenses!!1) . Either that or monks do that super awkward circle strafe the entire boss fight.
Make Invuln stance a flat timer, one of its main appeals was using it out of combat and only having 40% stam to do that is pretty weak.
I havent got to test round kick or any of the other ones yet.
Force of body seems like a pretty bad thing for the way fkick dmg will work now and i've always thought the tome was not cool (slaariel has also always seemed to not like the just add more dmg thing). Maybe change this book to give monks a 2/4/6/8% chance( i think those are blademaster numbers) to flurry when using bare fist.
Pecannius
Dalayan Elder
PRE PATCH
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Face tanking same BQ mob on http://shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=messerschmitt
Using lifetap kick combos, barefist.
Messerschmitt
--- DMG: 55780 (100%) @ 516 dps (516 sdps)
--- DMG: 55426 (99.32%) @ 495 dps (478 sdps)
--- DMG: 55896 (100%) @ 508 dps (508 sdps)
--- DMG: 57001 (100%) @ 483 dps (467 sdps)
--- DMG: 55728 (100%) @ 507 dps (502 sdps)
Using round kick combos, barefist
--- DMG: 55673 (100%) @ 647 dps (647 sdps)
--- DMG: 51746 (92.95%) @ 602 dps (602 sdps)
--- DMG: 55701 (100%) @ 605 dps (605 sdps)
--- DMG: 52488 (94.23%) @ 571 dps (571 sdps)
--- DMG: 55948 (100%) @ 622 dps (622 sdps)
--- DMG: 52021 (92.98%) @ 578 dps (578 sdps)
--- DMG: 55676 (100%) @ 647 dps (647 sdps)
--- DMG: 50788 (91.22%) @ 627 dps (591 sdps)
POST PATCH
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In aggressive stance, spamming flying kick, barefist.
Messerschmitt
--- DMG: 55881 (100%) @ 327 dps (327 sdps)
--- DMG: 54629 (97.93%) @ 374 dps (364 sdps)
--- DMG: 55820 (100%) @ 360 dps (360 sdps)
--- DMG: 55826 (100%) @ 332 dps (332 sdps)
In aggresive stance, spamming round kick, barefist.
--- DMG: 55895 (100%) @ 343 dps (343 sdps)
--- DMG: 54041 (96.77%) @ 307 dps (307 sdps)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Face tanking same BQ mob on http://shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=messerschmitt
Using lifetap kick combos, barefist.
Messerschmitt
--- DMG: 55780 (100%) @ 516 dps (516 sdps)
--- DMG: 55426 (99.32%) @ 495 dps (478 sdps)
--- DMG: 55896 (100%) @ 508 dps (508 sdps)
--- DMG: 57001 (100%) @ 483 dps (467 sdps)
--- DMG: 55728 (100%) @ 507 dps (502 sdps)
Using round kick combos, barefist
--- DMG: 55673 (100%) @ 647 dps (647 sdps)
--- DMG: 51746 (92.95%) @ 602 dps (602 sdps)
--- DMG: 55701 (100%) @ 605 dps (605 sdps)
--- DMG: 52488 (94.23%) @ 571 dps (571 sdps)
--- DMG: 55948 (100%) @ 622 dps (622 sdps)
--- DMG: 52021 (92.98%) @ 578 dps (578 sdps)
--- DMG: 55676 (100%) @ 647 dps (647 sdps)
--- DMG: 50788 (91.22%) @ 627 dps (591 sdps)
POST PATCH
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In aggressive stance, spamming flying kick, barefist.
Messerschmitt
--- DMG: 55881 (100%) @ 327 dps (327 sdps)
--- DMG: 54629 (97.93%) @ 374 dps (364 sdps)
--- DMG: 55820 (100%) @ 360 dps (360 sdps)
--- DMG: 55826 (100%) @ 332 dps (332 sdps)
In aggresive stance, spamming round kick, barefist.
--- DMG: 55895 (100%) @ 343 dps (343 sdps)
--- DMG: 54041 (96.77%) @ 307 dps (307 sdps)