Warrior Aggro Issues

[Slippers1]

Now, I'm not a warrior- that's true. So maybe I have no business in this suggestiong, but there is a glaring hole in warrior's ability to keep aggro without the use of cmal gloves. And honestly, at 65, I figure aggro generation is a much, much bigger deal than bandage mastery. I understand that retroactively adding AA skills is generally unacceptable, but I figured that in this case an exception might be made.

I propose a change of the Warrior's Class AA ability "Bandage Master" to some form of hate generation-on-hit ability.

I couldn't argue numbers, because all I know is that without cmal gloves warrior aggro is spotty, at best. I also recognize many people probably have better ideas on how to fix it. But I figured that the topic should at least be brought into discussion.

 

[Eredhel]

You might want to look at Advanced anatomy which requires a ton of bandage aa's to get. It's an agro machine.

 

[Interstate]

You might want to look at Advanced anatomy which requires a ton of bandage aa's to get. It's an agro machine.

Advanced anatomy generates agro yes, but it's far from being an agro machine.

 

[BenGordon]

there is a glaring hole in warrior's ability to keep aggro without the use of cmal gloves.

This is so true. The cmal1 gloves are a crapshoot with there 30 second or whatever recast and cmal3 gloves are ungodly rare. I always felt like the whole cmal gloves things for warriors was the biggest problem with the class itself. It is simply a neccesity for any and all high end warriors...I really cant think of another class that has an item like this that you absolutely need to obtain in order to progress.

 

[Waldoff]

This is so true. The cmal1 gloves are a crapshoot with there 30 second or whatever recast and cmal3 gloves are ungodly rare. I always felt like the whole cmal gloves things for warriors was the biggest problem with the class itself. It is simply a neccesity for any and all high end warriors...I really cant think of another class that has an item like this that you absolutely need to obtain in order to progress.

I agree with this. Always thought that it wouldnt be a bad idea to add more hate guantlets for warriors throughout the game to spread the idea further.

Lets say your a DHK warrior. Well here are your DHK tier warrior click gloves. Oh your in Sepulcher now? Here are your sepulcher tier warrior gloves.

You basically have a new class of item that drops in raid and exp zones that gives warriors more choice than cmal 1 or cmal 3. Either this or do away with the damn things altogether

 

[BenGordon]

They eventually become a liability as well. For example in the case of Sald who still has them equipped 100% of the time he could easily add 30 ac and 150 HP with some thaz or mani tier gloves but its a pain in the butt to swap them out every single encounter. Over the course of a raid maybe 50-60 times you might have to swap them out this is really not ideal so instead of replacing them Sald just deals with them.

I know wiz doesn't want to change the cmal drop rates but some suggestions I have are maybe making a couple of the named encounters in cmal3 drop a random class' gauntlets in their loot table every time. Maybe even a quested aug that would have the same clicky effect. Have the quest be similar in difficulty to the Ytraz or something. Even reducing the cmal1/2 glove recast to 0 and just have a higher resist check than the cmal3 gloves would go a long way.

I know this has been discussed a thousand times but I still think it needs to be looked at. In my quest for these gloves I did manage to obtain both the cleric and warrior cmal3 BP as well as the greaves and I never saw gaunts for either class drop.

 

[Brimztone]

I'll probably get jumped all over for asking this, but the only direct aggro generation procs are on offhand weapons, correct? Why exactly is it like this?

It is kind of silly to have a class revolving around one or two pieces of loot(Cmal 1 and 3 gloves) and that item being very, very rare. Thats just my point of view.

 

[diolas]

I thought the biggest boon to playing a hybrid tank is for the ungodly agro control. I don't think it's really fair to hybrids if you gave warriors a similar luxury. I see cmal3 gaunts as a warrior luxury, giving them advanced agro control that they shouldn't normally get. Painful to get? Sure, but I really dont' think warriors have much to complain about since their already the tank class of choice and don't have many issues with agro as it is.

 

[Allielyn]

don't have many issues with agro as it is.

Without cmal 3 gloves, they have lots of issues with aggro. Cmal3 gloves are basically class defining for Warriors. Few other classes, if any, are so dependent upon one piece gear the way warriors are for cmal3 gaunts.

 

[BenGordon]

I thought the biggest boon to playing a hybrid tank is for the ungodly agro control. I don't think it's really fair to hybrids if you gave warriors a similar luxury. I see cmal3 gaunts as a warrior luxury, giving them advanced agro control that they shouldn't normally get. Painful to get? Sure, but I really dont' think warriors have much to complain about since their already the tank class of choice and don't have many issues with agro as it is.

How many hyrbid tanks besides SK's have ungodly agro control anyways? I think you missed the point. A luxury no...lets put it this way - if cmal3 gloves were removed from the game warriors would become obsolete on raids and Jose and Volkov would rule the high end tanking game. I think this example alone is reason to fix this lingering problem.

 

[Crayak]

I completely agree with the lack of a better way to gain aggro other then thru gloves for wars. Playing as a 65 war with not too many AAs and lack of cmal gloves I have personally noticed that at the current state if you switched my war's class to sk he would tank a lot better during xp grinds and such then currently. My war has a moth eaten tree switch 5a 10d with a proc and a hammer of light that procs flash of light and has trouble holding aggro all the time. I switch to the stance diving attacks and it barely holds as well and drains stamina quite easily.

 

[vistachiri]

Yep war's are pretty crap without the gloves as far as aggro goes. As far as how to fix it, I like waldoff's idea of a different piece of loot from each tier that has a clicky, but I think Behn's suggestion of putting in a quested aug for warrior gloves kicks alot of ass(or perhaps simply replace all the cmal gloves with a class appropriate typed aug drop? Would be crazy easier, could even keep same droprate, ala searfire neck =>searfire aug) but then again I <3 quests.

 

[penfold]

i vaguely remember knight (perhaps it was a warrior?) classes bringing up the idea of having the focus effect, furious bash, on shields to grab aggro on bashing. this was a while ago and would probably convert most warriors from dual wielding to primary/shield combo since shield stats are pretty darn nice!

an ongoing warrior quest that involved killing boss mobs, scavenging for items (maybe something more innovative) that starts when a warrior is young and works up to well into the 65s would work. at certain shield upgrades furious bash would be upgraded to a new point giving extra aggro, but also not too overpowering on the stats. would benefit for those warriors without aggro procing weapons. but i don't know what would become of weapons like wailfury/ragebringer/etc...

i can't remember what happened to that post about the bashing shields, but this was just a suggestion!

 

[Aaubert]

at some point on live, (after the tuturial was introduced), warriors got the "throw stone" ability, which was a casted nuke for 1 or 2 damage or something. It had like 10 range, and was only really there for pulling. Giving this ability to warriors with an added hate component would make it so warriors were more powerful based on getting an AA, instead of permacamping some zone and pulling every group you can into there.

 

[Brimztone]

at some point on live, (after the tuturial was introduced), warriors got the "throw stone" ability, which was a casted nuke for 1 or 2 damage or something. It had like 10 range, and was only really there for pulling. Giving this ability to warriors with an added hate component would make it so warriors were more powerful based on getting an AA, instead of permacamping some zone and pulling every group you can into there.

That came when Discs came.

 

[Mean Gorilla]

Well, I've played a warrior since day 1 on this server and I've got to say, I've never had a huge issue with aggro. Even in the infancy stages of a warrior, you can still manage aggro effectively.

What I think many people fail to realize, is that the dps classes needs to adjust accordingly to the warrior's aggro generation (If your warrior doesn't have gloves, don't nuke the same as if he had gloves). As for my warrior, during the time before he had gloves, I participated in a lot of traekoth raids (giving the early raid scene without gloves). Now on those raids I had no other aggro generation besides attack and procs, but I still managed to hold aggro on those fights because the casters adjusted their dps accordingly. As for grind groups, you're just going to have to give the tank more time to generate aggro, maybe try using rains with the casters, or getting -aggression items on the casters.

This server offers a variety of ways to improve warrior aggro and some are available to early tanks. I see no reason why more need to be added, but I'm not opposed to it if they decide to add another alternative . Here is a general list:

Weapon Procs: Variety of weapons that generate pure aggro or a decent nuke/dot/debuff (Blacksmiths make some too)

Spell Procs: Given by bards and wizards (DDs that proc off your attacks) / Melwin's Idol of joy from MielechC (Werefrog: 80-100ish lifetap) (55-65ish group) (Can be bought with fame points as well iirc)

Warrior Starfalls: 2-hander(not ideal but procs a dd) / Boots (PROC AGGRO)

Clickies: A large variety of them with different effects (Sandjaw 30ish adept has a blind ring / Parcelean has root/stun/fear rings / Snow leopard adept in frosthorn drops an instant clicky malise)

Aggression enhancing items: Collar of the Fluxator(+4 and bought easily) / Newport Quest ring (+3 55ish quest) / AWT mask(+2?) / T-map Quest item for tanks(+3) / probably plenty more, but those are the ones in my head.

Cmal gloves: Cmal 1 gloves (can bring groups here around 55) Cmal 3 gloves (65 with a 40ish AA's I'd say) Both a luxury to have, but not a requirement to hold good aggro imo (sure they are nice to have, but don't blame having bad aggro on not having these gloves).

Warrior's Advanced Anatomy AA: Generates aggro on every hit thus improving overall aggro. Now you can say why not make it easier to obtain, but it just goes with what this game is built on. You get AA's on any class and you get better at what you do...Wizards nuke harder, rogues dps better , clerics heal for more , WARRIORS GET BETTER AGGRO, etc, etc.

Clearly, on some fights, you can't rely on a proc for aggro, so I would suggest looking at the aggression items for a steady improvement on aggro issues.

As for the original poster for this thread, I hope I've given you more than enough options for your dilemma. Like I said before, DPS classes need to adjust to whatever tank they are using. Clearly, every tank is different and you just need to get a feel for where the line is drawn between where your warrior is tanking and where the mob is on the loose killing the casters. In general, a decent warrior should have a feel on where his aggro lies and should let you know where he stands!

-Braxx ~Aeternus~ :hmph:

 

[Harziel]

I miss Incite on warriors =/
but thats an entirely different system altogether.
The quested aug/clicky sounds like a good idea.
Not sure how feasible it would be but perhaps an inventory clicky item that a warrior can click every so often (10-15 second recast). Maybe call it a Glimmering red stone and it begins as a questing tier item for warriors as newbies ( scaling each level set from 10, 30, 45, 60 and 65).
It wouldn't necessarily be a hand out as the warriors would have to still have to run the quests but it would defeat the extreme bottleneck of camping cmal constantly (not just against other warriors but against anyone else that runs cmal).
Maybe its just me but I prefer a quest of gathering smaller more common items as opposed to camping an item with an extreme random chance.

Taunt only puts the taunter at the top of hate list but any other hate generated must come from the warriors procs or dps (which can be overcome easily by dps classes trailing behind the tank).

Cmal gloves. Luxury ? Yes. Requirement? No.
Should a class really be defined by their luxury items though? I hope not but people seem to do it anyways.

 

[Waldoff]

Braxx, I think its less about warrior aggro being too low. I could kjeep aggro fairly well at lower levels as well.

The thing that bothers me personally is there is an item in the game that a warrior can get that ups their aggro to a HUGE degree. This item is never replaceable and carries through your entire career at the higher lvls. If you are a raiding warrior and you dont have your cmal3 gloves you are to a very large degree less effective. The snap aggro the gloves gives is pretty much a requirment anywhere past Sepulcher/OP.

This seems like a lot of reliance on a single item. What I would like to see is some way to either make the item no longer a must have and balance the aggro it gives in other places or to have more similiar things to the item put in so you have more choice than "Cmal3 gloves or Cmal 3 gloves."

 

[Mean Gorilla]

Braxx, I think its less about warrior aggro being too low. I could kjeep aggro fairly well at lower levels as well.

The thing that bothers me personally is there is an item in the game that a warrior can get that ups their aggro to a HUGE degree. This item is never replaceable and carries through your entire career at the higher lvls. If you are a raiding warrior and you dont have your cmal3 gloves you are to a very large degree less effective. The snap aggro the gloves gives is pretty much a requirment anywhere past Sepulcher/OP.

This seems like a lot of reliance on a single item. What I would like to see is some way to either make the item no longer a must have and balance the aggro it gives in other places or to have more similiar things to the item put in so you have more choice than "Cmal3 gloves or Cmal 3 gloves."

As far as the post goes, I felt it based more towards aggro in general given he gave two different examples on the issue.

As for cmal 3 gloves, I'm not at all opposed to the creation of a tier based assortment of gloves to build up to cmal3 gloves and passed them. I have seen many of the gloves passed cmal 3 gloves and understand that you take a decent hit to stats by wearing cmal 3 gloves. I see cmal 3 gloves in the same light as haste items( you lose a little, but you gain a lot). As you level up you tend to have to sacrifice a little bit of stats for a haste item which may be lacking in stats, but you gain the benefits of that haste. In the end game, I see a lot less sacrifice in order to maintain a haste item, so I see no reason for an argument against a higher end glove with similiar aggro perks.

 

[vistachiri]

Another possible solution to the hits one takes b/c of the gloves is simply make them an inventory clicky, just keep an empty slot and wham, there's your gloves, ready to go. I like the quest/other ideas alot more though