Warrior Aggro Issues

hooden said:
As a cleric, I never had an issue with getting aggro even throwing up quicks. I really don't think many people have an issue in today's SOD with heal aggro. Even on mobs where you cannot land gloves, I've yet to see healers overaggro. As far as fast aggro goes, at least on some fights nothing is faster than AE taunt.
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For quickheals possibly. I at least haven't ever really pulled aggro with xavu even off my pet with quicks (until of course around half the fight is over and there's multiple mobs on him, ala lab). Throwing regular heals with a cleric, yeah it happens. Usually it tends to happen in the first say 15 seconds of the fight from what I've seen if it happens at all. The biggest culprit so far as I've seen being hots. Though occasionally I see blissful or relic light pull something off the warrior. I haven't ever seen it happen with an sk tanking, and see it far less with a pally (that with a warrior to clarify).
 
GuiardoTuneweaver said:
Proc would be pointless, unless it proc'd constantly which would be overpowering. Whatever the solution is, it has to be a clickie. Warriors need snap aggro on incoming. If it can't be triggered on incoming, it would not at all change the need for the Cmal3 gloves.

AE taunt is great, but the recast is too long to make it a viable alternative. How many of the high-end warriors who choose to keep Cmal3 gloves over more stats are there that do not have AE taunt? (answer=0)
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word. when i agreed with saphar, iwas thinking clickie, not proc.

CLICKIE AUG PLEASE.
 
Indeed, a healer should be able to pull agro if he/she overdoes it... but casting a hot when warrior is at 80 shouldn't be overdoing it. Without cmal gloves, vs some mobs that was the case. Specially vs runed adversaries. A gloveless warrior has to break rune before getting some real agro on those mobs, and a single heal = agro on healer. This doesn't happen with paladins or SK, just with warrior. Taking in consideration that a warrior is basically a tank (and they need agro to work like one) forcing them to camp a single ultra rare item is quite unfair.

And yes, I wasn't whining about healers.... shit happens, and, if I overheal, is my damned fault... my point is that overhealing can never be considered first LoE. And, without Cmal 3 gloves, or agro pants, 1 loe's agro >>>> warrior agro.
 
GuiardoTuneweaver said:
Warriors need snap aggro on incoming. If it can't be triggered on incoming, it would not at all change the need for the Cmal3 gloves.

AE taunt is great, but the recast is too long to make it a viable alternative. How many of the high-end warriors who choose to keep Cmal3 gloves over more stats are there that do not have AE taunt? (answer=0)
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If warriors had snap aggro why would you EVER bring a knight? Do I think that something needs to be done so that warriors aren't defined by whether or not they have cmal3 gloves? Absolutely. But that is one of the tradeoffs you make when comparing knights and warriors. Better aggro vs better mitigation. The quested aug sounds like a viable suggestion since the recast on clickies is easily adjusted.
 
Garluk said:
If warriors had snap aggro why would you EVER bring a knight?
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thing is, on a lot of mobs, my question ends up being, with warriors not having snap aggro, why would i EVER bring a warrior?
 
Aaubert said:
thing is, on a lot of mobs, my question ends up being, with warriors not having snap aggro, why would i EVER bring a warrior?
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Superior tanking abilities?
 
rab said:
Superior tanking abilities?
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given that most warriors use their cmal gloves instead of raid-loot gloves, your argument sucks.

obv, aggro > slightly better tankability.
 
Kaledorm said:
Not if the mob's hitting someone else...
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Ill have to agree with that. I would rather heal one person alot than a whole group alot, as would most other clerics I would think.
 
I think it's always been accepted that at certain points in their lives warriors are inferior group tanks, just because they don't provide the same utility as knights. They are, of course, the superior raid tank.

(Don't be a warrior if you don't want to raid)

A final edit: I'm not sure what I'm even arguing against, but the warrior is the superior tank by far, so that's why you would want to use a warrior over a knight. In regards to not having gloves, Vargg didn't have gloves for a long time, and Ruin did fine.
 
Aaubert said:
given that most warriors use their cmal gloves instead of raid-loot gloves, your argument sucks.
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The idea is generally to land the gloves then switch to a better pair, at least thats what I would do, especially since 2.0 when most warriors are single clienting, tanking with a warrior is pretty boring, watch your hps go up and down, press resilience, warcry, and bash/slam every once in a while, so why not open your inventory and switch to mani gauntlets or whatever after you have landed cmal gloves on the mob?

I'm not really trying to say anything other than that, something needs to be done about warrior aggro, and I think there are several good points and suggestions in this thread.
 
I really have never seen an issue with warrior agro on raid mobs, and this isn't based soley on experience with linken. When we used kathor in venerate, after we lost coltaine, and before he had any agro weapon or cmal gloves, it didnt stop us from raiding. The raid learned to manage their agro and you took precautions to ensure that the mob would stay on the warrior. Eventually the guild worked to get the tank agro aa's and helped camp cmal1 and eventually cmal3 gloves. It sounds to me that people want to be able to get the results without putting in the work.
 
having leveled and aa'd 2 wars now lol...I find that <65 the war is doing subpar dps and has no agro elements except his offhand to maintain agro. Now in the raid game you are in the same boat but have greater access to better offhand, mainhands, aa's and snap agro clickies such as the malo doll and the infamous cmal3 gloves. Imo new clickies are only a patch to the problem and offer no scalability in solving this problem. You need to increase the agro from dps by increasing overall dps or imho changing the way agro is tabulated for warriors so that you do not tinker with class dps balance and the itemization. perhaps base+5%?

another solution is to change perhaps bandage mastery to ranks of agro and the advanced anatomy aa to some form of mitigation with 2 ranks.
 
In my opinion warriors agro is just overpowered, Paladins/Shadow knights should be the king of agro, but yet, an Warrior with cmal gloves 3, can grab agro from SK pretty easly, and still tank way better, the SK to hold the agro off a warrior, he would have to try really hard, using a lot of mana...

As far as i understand , warriors should be the best tank, but shouldnt be the best agro in game. And if he doesnt have the best agro in game, with all these tools (cmal gloves, AA's, etc), he definetly is very near the best agro holder...

Flame on, but i dont think warriors taunt should be bumped up, id say a nerf, or let it the way it is... /shrugs.
 
rab said:
I think it's always been accepted that at certain points in their lives warriors are inferior group tanks, just because they don't provide the same utility as knights. They are, of course, the superior raid tank.

(Don't be a warrior if you don't want to raid)

A final edit: I'm not sure what I'm even arguing against, but the warrior is the superior tank by far, so that's why you would want to use a warrior over a knight. In regards to not having gloves, Vargg didn't have gloves for a long time, and Ruin did fine.
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:toot:
 
guyvertoo said:
I really have never seen an issue with warrior agro on raid mobs, and this isn't based soley on experience with linken. When we used kathor in venerate, after we lost coltaine, and before he had any agro weapon or cmal gloves, it didnt stop us from raiding. The raid learned to manage their agro and you took precautions to ensure that the mob would stay on the warrior. Eventually the guild worked to get the tank agro aa's and helped camp cmal1 and eventually cmal3 gloves. It sounds to me that people want to be able to get the results without putting in the work.
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Agree with that. As far as I can recall we died more often from letting Kathy die than overaggroing.
 
volvov2 said:
The idea is generally to land the gloves then switch to a better pair, at least thats what I would do, especially since 2.0 when most warriors are single clienting, tanking with a warrior is pretty boring, watch your hps go up and down, press resilience, warcry, and bash/slam every once in a while, so why not open your inventory and switch to mani gauntlets or whatever after you have landed cmal gloves on the mob?

I'm not really trying to say anything other than that, something needs to be done about warrior aggro, and I think there are several good points and suggestions in this thread.
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i totally agree that its possible, but consta-switching still sucks, and i know from my personal experience, after a while, if i can tank a mob w/o switching, i just don't care enough to switch, and i know i'm not unique in this. i understand thats laziness... but switching one item slot again and again is something that got so annoying on live, they made the bandolier.

can anyone say what problems there would be with the implementation of a mob that would switch gloves for an aug w/ the same clickie? Its a pain, i know, and eventually, other classes would whine until their cmal clickies were put into augs...

If there was a mob in starfall who would trade you cmal3 gloves for an aug with the clickie, that'd be amazing. It would also balance out, because for the added bonus of having that clickie on your gloves, you would not be able to aug them with a stat aug.

Any obvious problems I'm missing here? Like, is there some incapability with the tools we have for SoD to put a clickie on an aug?
 
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