Vendor System
- Thread starter Wiz
- Start date
Zhak Morris said:
If you are on any mob hate lists, the action fails. It would also serve as a temporary bind to your current location. Using the return command would drop you exactly where you left. Maybe put in a 15 minute timer between uses of the "travel to vendor zone" command. Not that you would have to wait 15 minutes to get back to your group but that you could only leave your group once every 15 minutes. To further prevent exploitation, the "vendor zone" would also need to be a pocket plane, similar to what the donators have access to. You couldn't use it to bail, and then just walk to safety.
How about if we set up a bazaar-type zone, with being able to be weightless, a couple banks, the whole shebang. However, if you put your character in vendor mode, your wares can only be browsed, any selling has to be done through the regular trade. Plus, being able to do this is constrained to certain time-frames each day. This way, folks know that on said day, they can buy/sell wares at such and such a time and plan accordingly. For instance, Mondays from 8 am to noon, Tuesdays from noon to 4 pm, Wednesdays from 4 pm to 8 pm, etc. This way everyone from every time zone and play time should be able to find at least one day out of the week to buy and sell. Broadcasts can be made when the vendors are to be opened and when the vendors are approaching being closed. And the "browseability" can be taken away when it isn't bazaar time (not sure if this can be done, hopefully can). This gives folks the opportunity to plan on selling wares and not be in say, a Lasanth group and unable to sell their items. The only issue I can see with this is that there will be some days that are more popular bazaar times than others and some folks that cannot be there at those times may get upset. However, eventually everyone will see what the popular days/times are and again, can plan accordingly.
This is just a thought, similiar to what is already out there in ideas. However, the time constraint helps with the issue of being in a group and traveling back to sell your wares. This also, if it works, would prevent the need of having a GM attend the event as folks would only be able to show/view wares, plus still keeps the player interaction. Having banks and weightlessness in the zone makes it easier for a tradeskiller to sell their wares. Folks with special tradeskill abilities can also post in forums in trade section about what they have and which day/time they will be selling their wares.
I don't know about other folks, but as a tradeskiller, having a certain time frame that I can commit to in order to sell my abundant goods is very appealing to me. This way I can plan in advance to devote this time to selling and not be disappointed about the loss in xp time, and still make some cash on the many items I craft.
This is just a thought, flame away if you have to...
This is just a thought, similiar to what is already out there in ideas. However, the time constraint helps with the issue of being in a group and traveling back to sell your wares. This also, if it works, would prevent the need of having a GM attend the event as folks would only be able to show/view wares, plus still keeps the player interaction. Having banks and weightlessness in the zone makes it easier for a tradeskiller to sell their wares. Folks with special tradeskill abilities can also post in forums in trade section about what they have and which day/time they will be selling their wares.
I don't know about other folks, but as a tradeskiller, having a certain time frame that I can commit to in order to sell my abundant goods is very appealing to me. This way I can plan in advance to devote this time to selling and not be disappointed about the loss in xp time, and still make some cash on the many items I craft.
This is just a thought, flame away if you have to...
Danku
Dalayan Beginner
Access to zone-I think wherever the trading zone is, it should get a translocator same as NP, Oggok etc but it should also have a postmaster. This makes access easier without being too simple. It also makes getting items to the Free Trade Zone (FTZ). It would have to be accessible to newbies as well as higher level folks. Perhaps drop the 2p charge to TL to the trade zone as most newbies are hard up for plat. Too avoid teleporter abuse maybe they could only TP back to the zone they came from for free.
Trader Satchels-A good idea may be to allow someone to link their satchel in the /auction and when people click this link they are able to look inside the satchel and right click from there. I do not know if that is even doable, just a thought. It does put alot on the person to look inside VS seeing all the seperate items in /auction but it would cut down on spam.
Schedule-Maybe take a poll and see what day would work best for people as well as time. With our people being worldwide it would probably be best to have 2 trade time periods on the day chosen. For example, 4am to 9am and 4pm to 9pm or vice versa. Could have 4pm to 9pm Fri night and then 4am to 9am saturday morning. By seperating the sessions you give the chance for everyone around the world to participate and some enterprising merchants will be at both.
Banks would be a must of course. But so would landmarks. Maybe throw in a few NPC's that are just there for that purpose, but could be given some fun one liners. "Selling XXX by the Troll in the Purple outfit" "XXX for sale by the Ogre in the red hotpants" I would stick to tall races for this VS stunties of course. Heck, throw in some mob models like a shark or dragon.
Just my thoughts. Hope some are helpful.
Trader Satchels-A good idea may be to allow someone to link their satchel in the /auction and when people click this link they are able to look inside the satchel and right click from there. I do not know if that is even doable, just a thought. It does put alot on the person to look inside VS seeing all the seperate items in /auction but it would cut down on spam.
Schedule-Maybe take a poll and see what day would work best for people as well as time. With our people being worldwide it would probably be best to have 2 trade time periods on the day chosen. For example, 4am to 9am and 4pm to 9pm or vice versa. Could have 4pm to 9pm Fri night and then 4am to 9am saturday morning. By seperating the sessions you give the chance for everyone around the world to participate and some enterprising merchants will be at both.
Banks would be a must of course. But so would landmarks. Maybe throw in a few NPC's that are just there for that purpose, but could be given some fun one liners. "Selling XXX by the Troll in the Purple outfit" "XXX for sale by the Ogre in the red hotpants" I would stick to tall races for this VS stunties of course. Heck, throw in some mob models like a shark or dragon.
Just my thoughts. Hope some are helpful.
sodenchantress
Dalayan Beginner
What about using gfay/felwithe for a vendor zone. I know someone had mentioned it earlier, but I basically wanted to second that. Many of us old school folks spent countless hours in Gfay, and to be honest, it's sad as hell to go there and be the only person for hours upon hours. I leveled in Crushbone from 9-15 and was the only person there the entire time. The Gfay setting could be perfect for a market, you could use the guild halls to sell specific wares, IE Armor at Faydarks Champions, and weapons at the rogue guild, etc etc. You could also sell all vendor sold components availiable there so it would become the tradeskillers hangout. I am definitely for the old school way of selling but I also see the point of people like Maimai, she has put god knows how many hours into her craft.
Joudas
Dalayan Adventurer
Having read the thread, it seems the main concerns are:
1) Keeping player interaction in the trade process (no automation)
2) Being able to list a vast quantity of items at once (for tradeskillers particularly)
3) Not taking a lot of time out of someone's day to sell things (time vs profit)
4) Not having it constrained to a certain time / time zone
What if there was a zone set up to be the trade zone, as mentioned, populated by NPCs with whom you could list items, then leave, then someone else could come to that zone, get a list of items for sale (searchable, perhaps - for example, /say Ruby Hilted Longsword and get a list of everyone selling one and their asking price) - then simply /tell that person, or use the already-implemented post system to send them a message that you want that item, arrange a time and place to meet and perform the transaction? The result would be a way around constant spam in the auction channel, and having to go sit in zone x and sell your garbage for hours at a time. People who wanted to do this could, of course, sit in the trade zone and hawk their wares, but those who would rather be doing something productive, could. Perhaps listings last for a week then are removed? This would allow people who were tradeskillers to list items they didn't have in stock, but could make on demand, without taking up inventory space for them, too.
Another nice thing (on a similar note) would be a way to sell items via mail - example, give an item to the postmaster, and say "I wish to sell to soandso for 150 0 0 0 Here's the sword you wanted. <-- Would send a letter saying "here's the sword you wanted", and when the person received the mail, would be told that the item was available, but would cost them 150 platinum, and be prompted to accept or reject... accepting would deduct the money from their character, add it to the person's who sent it (or send it to them via mail? something), so you could trade with someone who's not online during the same times you are.
I know the second thought violates rule #1, but as was mentioned, there's a lot of times when it's just not practical to meet someone face to face to sell an item. For particularly low level gear, for one, that doesn't sell for much.
To be honest, I've never sold an item since I started playing on SoD. Not once, and not because I don't have anything to sell. I've never been able to get a vender, and never wanted to bother sitting somewhere for two hours to make 200pp off a few junky items, when I could go to, say, mielech and kill frogs and make more then that. It's just impractical.
1) Keeping player interaction in the trade process (no automation)
2) Being able to list a vast quantity of items at once (for tradeskillers particularly)
3) Not taking a lot of time out of someone's day to sell things (time vs profit)
4) Not having it constrained to a certain time / time zone
What if there was a zone set up to be the trade zone, as mentioned, populated by NPCs with whom you could list items, then leave, then someone else could come to that zone, get a list of items for sale (searchable, perhaps - for example, /say Ruby Hilted Longsword and get a list of everyone selling one and their asking price) - then simply /tell that person, or use the already-implemented post system to send them a message that you want that item, arrange a time and place to meet and perform the transaction? The result would be a way around constant spam in the auction channel, and having to go sit in zone x and sell your garbage for hours at a time. People who wanted to do this could, of course, sit in the trade zone and hawk their wares, but those who would rather be doing something productive, could. Perhaps listings last for a week then are removed? This would allow people who were tradeskillers to list items they didn't have in stock, but could make on demand, without taking up inventory space for them, too.
Another nice thing (on a similar note) would be a way to sell items via mail - example, give an item to the postmaster, and say "I wish to sell to soandso for 150 0 0 0 Here's the sword you wanted. <-- Would send a letter saying "here's the sword you wanted", and when the person received the mail, would be told that the item was available, but would cost them 150 platinum, and be prompted to accept or reject... accepting would deduct the money from their character, add it to the person's who sent it (or send it to them via mail? something), so you could trade with someone who's not online during the same times you are.
I know the second thought violates rule #1, but as was mentioned, there's a lot of times when it's just not practical to meet someone face to face to sell an item. For particularly low level gear, for one, that doesn't sell for much.
To be honest, I've never sold an item since I started playing on SoD. Not once, and not because I don't have anything to sell. I've never been able to get a vender, and never wanted to bother sitting somewhere for two hours to make 200pp off a few junky items, when I could go to, say, mielech and kill frogs and make more then that. It's just impractical.
GuiardoTuneweaver
Staff Emeritus
Joudas said:
Same here.
I like the idea of using the trader bags to display inventory in the bank. That, combined with the "I wish to sell" post idea, or even better a way to remotely agree to sell an item from your inventory would be a big plus. The interaction is still required to come to terms, but physical co-location isn't. While that does subtract from the realism a bit, it removes one of the barriers that subtracts fun for those who don't like standing around selling (and gameplay trumps realism in some cases, same reason we don't have to sleep, take time to actively eat, etc online).
MystikRavyn1512
Dalayan Beginner
Joudas said:
I have thought of something based on this idea. Is there a way to set it up so for trading you could set up the mail so you could send items while NOT at a postmaster? That way when Dorf_Cleric_01 has an item he is auctioning and is in a group they can type /sendmail Name_01 Item_01 Price_$$P$G
That way high lvls dont have to leave groups and it stays person to person.
JayelleNephilim
"Helpy Helper"
MystikRavyn1512 said:
I have thought of something based on this idea. Is there a way to set it up so for trading you could set up the mail so you could send items while NOT at a postmaster? That way when Dorf_Cleric_01 has an item he is auctioning and is in a group they can type /sendmail Name_01 Item_01 Price_$$P$G
That way high lvls dont have to leave groups and it stays person to person.[/quote]
IMHO this will only encourage those who already choose to kill the green named mobs for their loot, with the sole intention of making phat pp. At least having to put an item on a vendor prohibits them from duplicating lore items at such a quick rate. If they were able to "/sendmail Name_01 Item_01 Price_#P$G" they'd never leave the named spawn point, heh. :sadf:
With that being said, I'd just like to reiterate something that has already been touched on: The old "tunnel rat" atmosphere really added a lot to the game IMHO. There were a lot of people back then that DID stick with the "R", and yes even more that did not. The one point I'd like to make is "R" or not, there was at least interaction. With the current vendor system in place this has become almost extinct (cept say for those that do take the time to sell the 100pp item in /auc rather than just give it away to a nub in Newport -- my personal favorite atm).
My question/suggestion is this: is there a way to write the change into the lore (for example if we did go with a bazaar/flee market day/time)? And if so, what would be some ways that it could be done (this being more of a question to self ... I'll brainstorm and reply again with any ideas I come up with -- having writer's block at the moment -- 2 year old tuggin on my leg
)?Perhaps at the trading zone, and available only for the period of the bazaar, there could be a few Consignment Merchants. Anyone can drop an item on them with a sale price, and it will be show as available for sale on them. When sold, the Consignment Merchant takes 5% of the price as their cut. At the close of the bazaar the unsold items return to your bank account.
The drawback of this for the selling player is that anyone actually in the bazaar can undercut your price instantly. Anyone checking a Consignment Merchant just yells "WTB <X>, CM has it for <Y>." Anyone with the item to sell just names a price slightly less than the CM and makes a swift sale.
The player using the Consignment Merchant gets convenience with the drawback of severely reduced sales. If you're the type that can't be bothered with attending the bazaar and actively selling, it's at least something. They'll have to list their stuff cheaply and will lose 5% from that too, but they'll clear their bank account of stuff that would otherwise just sit there.
The drawback of this for the selling player is that anyone actually in the bazaar can undercut your price instantly. Anyone checking a Consignment Merchant just yells "WTB <X>, CM has it for <Y>." Anyone with the item to sell just names a price slightly less than the CM and makes a swift sale.
The player using the Consignment Merchant gets convenience with the drawback of severely reduced sales. If you're the type that can't be bothered with attending the bazaar and actively selling, it's at least something. They'll have to list their stuff cheaply and will lose 5% from that too, but they'll clear their bank account of stuff that would otherwise just sit there.
MystikRavyn1512
Dalayan Beginner
/gets ready for objects thrown at her.
I know you guys can control a green killed in a group means noone gets exp. Is there a way to do that with loot too. Make it so someone can kill a greenie for nodrop quest items and tradeskill items but any other items wont drop if you are X# lvl above the mob. That way you can prevent Farming_Loser_01 from camping an easy kill/high profit. That way the any loc mailings wont be abused in that way.
I know you guys can control a green killed in a group means noone gets exp. Is there a way to do that with loot too. Make it so someone can kill a greenie for nodrop quest items and tradeskill items but any other items wont drop if you are X# lvl above the mob. That way you can prevent Farming_Loser_01 from camping an easy kill/high profit. That way the any loc mailings wont be abused in that way.
Wiz said:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject:
chelkey wrote:
How about if we set up a bazaar-type zone
Did anyone else hear a voice saying "NO" just while reading it? Smile
OOJ (out of joke), I think they don't want to put anything related to qelive's bazaar, even if it's for a limited time each day
Refering to Bernat's post above: Try reading the entire post instead of jumping on something just because a certain word came up, in this case the word, "bazaar." My idea stemmed from Wiz's post back in the beginning, so therefore I think it would be considered. In no way was my idea like the EQlive bazaar, it instead was just as stated above only time frames and possible weightlessness (poor blacksmith with 20 breastplates for sale) were added to the idea. A zone with banks and possibly weightlessness people can go in to put bags on that allowed other players to browse their wares,and then /tell other players to make a deal. This sums it up for you, considering you had difficulty understanding/reading the other post.
Tempus
Staff Emeritus
Joudas said:
This is a great idea, and requires just as much player involvement as both parties clicking trade. The difference is you could negotiate your price offline and then not have to arrange a time to meet. But make it so that if they don't pick up the item within 3days it is mailed back to the seller. Or some other arbitrary length of time. This coupled with a wanelo or in game persistant listing mechanism solves most or all of the problems people have brought up.
moghedancarns
Dalayan Beginner
I just do not think you guys are remembering the EC tunnel the way it really was... the same way people do nto seem to remember the 50s like they really were.
EC was a dump. You had to turn off auction (and OOC, because people were idiots) just to try to xp in the zone, before you gave it up. People did not kill Slate for fun, they killed him because people thought it was funny to train Slate to the tunnel, where he would happily slay the greater majority of the playerbase. All of the tricks you describe, charming pets, displaying spells... all were in the funny once category. The first time you saw it, it was neat. After that, you didn't even notice it anymore. Druids never could bind others in the tunnel, and very few bound themselves... the WC portal and SoW meant it wasn't even remotely nessicary.
The Bazaar had two failings, both cause by developer incompetetence and ego. The first was the lag, the second was the requirement to be logged in to sell, and to have to find the seller to buy. They wanted the higher logged in numbers to hide the fact their their actual playerbase was slipping. This caused the lag.
You want the perfect system? Put 10 vendors to sever as access points in the arena zone. Put two bankers on either side of the podium, a few guards to keep people from getting unrulely, and a Grand Auctioneer on the main podium, to give it an RP flavor. Maybe the GMs can take control of him when they want to do a game or something.
Going to the vendor opens a window with everyone's trade stachel items and their price. Sold itmes appear in inventory, money in the bank. This window has a 10% surcharge.
Players present in the area can work out undercutting. If the seller is online, you can message hima nd maybe he will meet you face to face to work a deal.
But really, what is the value in forcing the face to face? Sometimes you get a good deal because you frustrate another player so much he justs wants you to shut up? If I list somehting for 100pp, I WANT 100 PP. I do not want 99pp, if I wanted 99pp, I would have listed it for 99pp. I also do not want 4 rusty daggers and 80pp. I do not want to sell the 4 rusty daggers... I want the PP. If the rusty daggers will sell to NPC merchants, then go sell them, and bring me the PP when you are done. If the item sells before then, which is what all the deal makers are worried about, then I do not care, because I made my 100pp. Someone else, with cash, just got a new item. Yous till have your 80pp and 4 rusty daggers, and as an added benefit, I have not been subjected to your sob story about how you need what I had to sell to savew your dying mother's life. All I hear is your mother's life wasn't worth 100pp to you.
As for where to put the Arena, put it where it goes, off Starfall. Portal, no portal, the only people not able to get there from NP or Oggok are under level 20 and fairly unskilled, meaning the exact people with no PP and a boatload of rusty daggers to trade... the very people no one wants to deal with.
Now, if you do not want it full time, make the zone open from 4pm friday to 4 am monday, you pick the time zone. Or just leave it up full time. Put some slot machines or something else on the back wall and rip some more cash from the economy.
I know automation is exactly what you do not want to see. But with the level restrictions on weapons, there is even less of a long term market and much more an immeadiate, got to have it right now market for weapons. AUtomation is the only thing that provides it. Anything else is like a gift certificate... just like cash, but less effective. No automation is just like automation, but with unnessicary steps. Kind of like the DAoC system. You have a listing of every sold item at the door... but then you have to run for an hour and find the house of the seller to buy. Why?
If you are not going to have automation, then just screw it. Rip the vendors. People can sell on the forums, or in /Auc. Any other system is pointless.
EC was a dump. You had to turn off auction (and OOC, because people were idiots) just to try to xp in the zone, before you gave it up. People did not kill Slate for fun, they killed him because people thought it was funny to train Slate to the tunnel, where he would happily slay the greater majority of the playerbase. All of the tricks you describe, charming pets, displaying spells... all were in the funny once category. The first time you saw it, it was neat. After that, you didn't even notice it anymore. Druids never could bind others in the tunnel, and very few bound themselves... the WC portal and SoW meant it wasn't even remotely nessicary.
The Bazaar had two failings, both cause by developer incompetetence and ego. The first was the lag, the second was the requirement to be logged in to sell, and to have to find the seller to buy. They wanted the higher logged in numbers to hide the fact their their actual playerbase was slipping. This caused the lag.
You want the perfect system? Put 10 vendors to sever as access points in the arena zone. Put two bankers on either side of the podium, a few guards to keep people from getting unrulely, and a Grand Auctioneer on the main podium, to give it an RP flavor. Maybe the GMs can take control of him when they want to do a game or something.
Going to the vendor opens a window with everyone's trade stachel items and their price. Sold itmes appear in inventory, money in the bank. This window has a 10% surcharge.
Players present in the area can work out undercutting. If the seller is online, you can message hima nd maybe he will meet you face to face to work a deal.
But really, what is the value in forcing the face to face? Sometimes you get a good deal because you frustrate another player so much he justs wants you to shut up? If I list somehting for 100pp, I WANT 100 PP. I do not want 99pp, if I wanted 99pp, I would have listed it for 99pp. I also do not want 4 rusty daggers and 80pp. I do not want to sell the 4 rusty daggers... I want the PP. If the rusty daggers will sell to NPC merchants, then go sell them, and bring me the PP when you are done. If the item sells before then, which is what all the deal makers are worried about, then I do not care, because I made my 100pp. Someone else, with cash, just got a new item. Yous till have your 80pp and 4 rusty daggers, and as an added benefit, I have not been subjected to your sob story about how you need what I had to sell to savew your dying mother's life. All I hear is your mother's life wasn't worth 100pp to you.
As for where to put the Arena, put it where it goes, off Starfall. Portal, no portal, the only people not able to get there from NP or Oggok are under level 20 and fairly unskilled, meaning the exact people with no PP and a boatload of rusty daggers to trade... the very people no one wants to deal with.
Now, if you do not want it full time, make the zone open from 4pm friday to 4 am monday, you pick the time zone. Or just leave it up full time. Put some slot machines or something else on the back wall and rip some more cash from the economy.
I know automation is exactly what you do not want to see. But with the level restrictions on weapons, there is even less of a long term market and much more an immeadiate, got to have it right now market for weapons. AUtomation is the only thing that provides it. Anything else is like a gift certificate... just like cash, but less effective. No automation is just like automation, but with unnessicary steps. Kind of like the DAoC system. You have a listing of every sold item at the door... but then you have to run for an hour and find the house of the seller to buy. Why?
If you are not going to have automation, then just screw it. Rip the vendors. People can sell on the forums, or in /Auc. Any other system is pointless.
StefanProdan
Dalayan Beginner
If you make a market zone, can it have a druid ring and wizard pylon?
A mud I played had an NPC in a town at an auction house. You could send him a tell to see what was for sale, bid on items, et cetera. He would send everyone bidding updates as it went. Once sold, the purchaser would have a certain amount of time to get to the NPC to pick up the item. You could also go to the npc and do it directly, including listing what he has and how much it cost.
I understand this takes away from some of the direct interaction wanted, but I'm throwing it out there in case it helps spark some other ideas.
Eredhel
Post Script: The system had some balancing over time to prevent certain exploits, but it worked well once the kinks were out.
I understand this takes away from some of the direct interaction wanted, but I'm throwing it out there in case it helps spark some other ideas.
Eredhel
Post Script: The system had some balancing over time to prevent certain exploits, but it worked well once the kinks were out.
Joudas
Dalayan Adventurer
I played a MUD with a similar system, when you wanted to sell an item, you typed something and the item disapeared from your inventory... it then went into a queue, and the top 10 items on the queue were up for auction at any given time. Anyone could view the queue (from anywhere) and there was a command to 'watch for' an item that wasn't up for bid yet - so you'd be notified when it was.
Then, anyone could type another command to bid on an item that was up for bid, and when no new bids were placed for 60 seconds, the auction ended, the item was mailed to the buyer, the money was mailed to the seller, and another item moved into the queue.
I found it to be a pretty exciting system, it has no player interaction, but it was a pretty fun way to go about selling things.