Trolls and OGRES! Currently a big problem with them.

[Bone]

Or perhaps as a real suggestion it might be looked at having lvls 1-20, where the charisma gear is not as easily obtained, have less of an effect from charisma. Perhaps even a boost into thier ability to land spells by 4-6%.

Something more along those lines would seem to solve this problem as opposed to covering it up witha bag so to speak.

 

[Laksha]

nah if you want to play a shammy with high sta and regen you need to sacrifice something, I feel no pitty for those who make a troll/oger shammy, you knew ahead of time that they will start with low cha and that spells resistance had to do with charisma, It was your choice.

 

[Wiz]

Perhaps the reason a level 65 with 128 cha was blasted whereas 30 cha doesn't mean much at lower levels is because the effect is exponential?

 

[moghedancarns]

Thank you very much, sir! =)

 

[Mirp]

nah if you want to play a shammy with high sta and regen you need to sacrifice something, I feel no pitty for those who make a troll/oger shammy, you knew ahead of time that they will start with low cha and that spells resistance had to do with charisma, It was your choice.

For the record, my shaman was basically my first character, I didn't fully understand the role charisma played before I created him. This doesn't mean I would have picked a different race. Good assumption though :finger:

And I think you're missing the point Laksha... So I'm going to break it down for you:

1) Trolls and ogres starting stats are exactly the same as they are on live.
2) Charisma doesn't effect spell resists on live.
3) Charisma does effect spell resists on SoD.
4) When they designed charisma to influence spell resists they didn't take into consideration a troll and ogres extremely low charisma.
5) This means that it wasn't intended as a trade-off.

It's pretty easy to not care when it doesn't apply to you. You really shouldn't even be posting in this thread. Read what other people have written, in every single one (even the plain heart) the writer has had something to contribute. Well, other than my smartass "how reassuring" comment.

I personally like the idea to add charisma to a number of items, but it'd be tricky to do without giving other races too much charisma. But I'll leave the thinking to the designers.

 

[Imp]

I honestly had no idea that charisma had anything to do with resists....I have a 49 troll shammy and just had no idea....

I feel noobified! ;(

 

[Aneas]

If anything, from a roleplace experience, this does not make sense. Imagine, if you will, a little gnome going up against a big troll. The troll would be HUGE and extremely scary to the tiny gnome...the troll would intimidate the little gnome; having this by his side, the troll would be able to land spells more effeciently, one would think - so dont call this a roleplay issue - it's not.

I disagree. Where magic is concerned, size doesn't matter. Whichever party managed to convince the other of their own arcane power, or presence, if you will, would stand the best chance of getting their spell to land. It would be very much about charisma, as a charming demeanor can lull the opponent into letting their mental guard down.

Personally, I think it makes perfect sense for Trolls and Ogres to have more trouble landing spells, by mere virtue of their lower magic-using capabilities to begin with. Now whether that deficiency is too great at the moment or not is a different matter.

My own 2cp.

 

[Aneas]

1) Trolls and ogres starting stats are exactly the same as they are on live.
2) Charisma doesn't effect spell resists on live.
3) Charisma does effect spell resists on SoD.

At this point I would have to ask, "Your point being...?" What makes you think the relationship is supposed to be the same between the two games?

4) When they designed charisma to influence spell resists they didn't take into consideration a troll and ogres extremely low charisma.
5) This means that it wasn't intended as a trade-off.

Do you really believe that? I sure don't. I'm quite confident that they put substantial consideration into such significant differences they code from live.

No offense, but it seems to me that you may be operating under couple of *very* shaky assumptions.

 

[Ocalen]

If anything, from a roleplace experience, this does not make sense. Imagine, if you will, a little gnome going up against a big troll. The troll would be HUGE and extremely scary to the tiny gnome...the troll would intimidate the little gnome; having this by his side, the troll would be able to land spells more effeciently, one would think - so dont call this a roleplay issue - it's not.

I disagree. Where magic is concerned, size doesn't matter. Whichever party managed to convince the other of their own arcane power, or presence, if you will, would stand the best chance of getting their spell to land. It would be very much about charisma, as a charming demeanor can lull the opponent into letting their mental guard down.

Personally, I think it makes perfect sense for Trolls and Ogres to have more trouble landing spells, by mere virtue of their lower magic-using capabilities to begin with. Now whether that deficiency is too great at the moment or not is a different matter.

My own 2cp.

Ok, let's think about what u just said about charming demeanor letting the mental guard down. If you are correct then only female characters should be able to land spells effeciently, unless u are implying that there are a lot of gay males in SoD...in which case I dont think you are (I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this).

Charm should have nothing to do with resists....what charm should have a lot to do with is persuading and bargaining.

I think what should have a lot to do in dealing with resists is the following: When a female goes up against a male it can create many mixed emotions to the average male (IRL) such as nervousness and chivalry (a man doesnt want to hit a woman) and in this case perhaps they should allow the female gender to have a huge increase in their abiliity not to get resisted.

What I was saying was that the bigger races would scare off the majority of the smaller races, this should lead to the bigger race to have an advantage over the smaller race...which should increase their ability to land a spell.

Sure the troll is dumber than the high elf, but the troll shaman has been trained to do his job (club, bash, cast nukes and heal), much like a boxer is taught to box (look at how dum Mike Tyson is and then look at how strong he was (in his prime)).

I just dont like this whole deal of charisma effecting resists. I hope they plan to do something to help the bigger races with it.

Just my 2 centz

 

[lacus]

If anything, from a roleplace experience, this does not make sense. Imagine, if you will, a little gnome going up against a big troll. The troll would be HUGE and extremely scary to the tiny gnome...the troll would intimidate the little gnome; having this by his side, the troll would be able to land spells more effeciently, one would think - so dont call this a roleplay issue - it's not.

I disagree. Where magic is concerned, size doesn't matter. Whichever party managed to convince the other of their own arcane power, or presence, if you will, would stand the best chance of getting their spell to land. It would be very much about charisma, as a charming demeanor can lull the opponent into letting their mental guard down.

Personally, I think it makes perfect sense for Trolls and Ogres to have more trouble landing spells, by mere virtue of their lower magic-using capabilities to begin with. Now whether that deficiency is too great at the moment or not is a different matter.

My own 2cp.

Ok, let's think about what u just said about charming demeanor letting the mental guard down. If you are correct then only female characters should be able to land spells effeciently, unless u are implying that there are a lot of gay males in SoD...in which case I dont think you are (I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this).

Charm should have nothing to do with resists....what charm should have a lot to do with is persuading and bargaining.

I think what should have a lot to do in dealing with resists is the following: When a female goes up against a male it can create many mixed emotions to the average male (IRL) such as nervousness and chivalry (a man doesnt want to hit a woman) and in this case perhaps they should allow the female gender to have a huge increase in their abiliity not to get resisted.

What I was saying was that the bigger races would scare off the majority of the smaller races, this should lead to the bigger race to have an advantage over the smaller race...which should increase their ability to land a spell.

Sure the troll is dumber than the high elf, but the troll shaman has been trained to do his job (club, bash, cast nukes and heal), much like a boxer is taught to box (look at how dum Mike Tyson is and then look at how strong he was (in his prime)).

I just dont like this whole deal of charisma effecting resists. I hope they plan to do something to help the bigger races with it.

Just my 2 centz

No offense, but this is just really a litany of bad ideas. Are you seriously suggesting that race and gender affects spell resists rather than a buffable / gearable stat? Do you really want raids consisting of a bunch of illusion: ogre, illusion: gender casters?

 

[diolas]

Ok, let's think about what u just said about charming demeanor letting the mental guard down. If you are correct then only female characters should be able to land spells effeciently, unless u are implying that there are a lot of gay males in SoD...in which case I dont think you are (I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this).

:? Just what the :censored: is that supposed to mean?

 

[Nuncio]

You should just stop thinking of Charisma as a physical attribute. Think of it as Will.

 

[Raherin]

Ok, let's think about what u just said about charming demeanor letting the mental guard down. If you are correct then only female characters should be able to land spells effeciently, unless u are implying that there are a lot of gay males in SoD...in which case I dont think you are (I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this).

This is probably one of the most stupid things I've ever read in my life. I've never actually felt my IQ take a land-slide after reading something.

 

[Birlic]

I agree with Laksha.
The starting stats of a race are tough to change and are conceived to be in sync with the live version, where CHA is far less important. A solution to this is to create newbie quests that would allow the low level characters "trade in" some of their starting stats by wearing items with (say) +30 CHA -20 STA -10 STR, Ogre only. As a Ogre warrior you will probably elect not to wear the item, as a shaman you may wanna try it out and decide if the tradeoff is worth it.

On another note, if you've been playing EQ recently and are used to the level of difficulty for the low level characters there, then that may be a source of frustration. SoD is closer to the EQ six years ago, when leveling 1-50 was harder than whistling.

Morticus, the Dark Elf Necromancer

 

[Ocalen]

Ok, let's think about what u just said about charming demeanor letting the mental guard down. If you are correct then only female characters should be able to land spells effeciently, unless u are implying that there are a lot of gay males in SoD...in which case I dont think you are (I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this).

This is probably one of the most stupid things I've ever read in my life. I've never actually felt my IQ take a land-slide after reading something.

O rly? Let's take a brief moment to define the word charisma:

charisma, personal_appeal, personal_magnetism:

a personal attractiveness that enables you to influence others.

After defining the word charisma, and relating it to its effect in SoD (resist rate %), does it really make sense that personal attractiveness should increase your character's chance of not being resisted? To me it does not.

I just think, since they made charisma so important here, they should have perhaps adjusted the start up charisma stats for each race accordingly. I also think the charisma stat (knowing that here it is really important) should be increased on certain female races.

And this is all I am saying...I was making idiotic points for a reason. Since personal attractiveness (charisma) in SoD does affect your chance (%) of getting resisted, then why not go ahead and admit it, female characters ARE more attractive, and therefore should get resisted less? Thus, female characters, in theory of what SoD uses, should start out with more charisma then male characters. Sound stupid? I admit, it would for EQ LIVE, but not for SoD...

 

[Raherin]

female characters should be able to land spells effeciently, unless u are implying that there are a lot of gay males in SoD

More specifically, I was talking about this incredibly sexist part of your statement.

 

[Allielyn]

O rly? Let's take a brief moment to define the word charisma:

charisma, personal_appeal, personal_magnetism:

a personal attractiveness that enables you to influence others.

There's the problem, you're using the wrong definition. In the context of SoD, Charisma refers to the force of an individual's personality, the ability to use it to help influence other people. This is independent of "good looks" and "charm." You can have a very strong personality force and use it to intimidate people just as well as you can have a very strong personality force and use it to inspire people.

 

[Tsabayne]

Since personal attractiveness (charisma) in SoD does affect your chance (%) of getting resisted, then why not go ahead and admit it, female characters ARE more attractive, and therefore should get resisted less? Thus, female characters, in theory of what SoD uses, should start out with more charisma then male characters. Sound stupid? I admit, it would for EQ LIVE, but not for SoD...

A more accurate definition of the way in which the stat of charisma is being used would be: The word charisma (from the Greek word kharisma or gift), is often used in this form to describe an ability to charm or influence people.
To say that female characters would have higher charisma because they are more attractive would imply that everyone is male. Politicians, generally speaking, have excellent charisma yet we don't rank them among the most beautiful people on earth.

Or perhaps as a real suggestion it might be looked at having lvls 1-20, where the charisma gear is not as easily obtained, have less of an effect from charisma. Perhaps even a boost into thier ability to land spells by 4-6%.

And I'd like to strongly disagree with that statement. Just because your race doesn't have the most beneficial stats to the class you've chosen doesn't mean that you should get little bonuses catered to you. I wouldn't expect a gnomish warrior to get a bonus percentage to their ability to mitigate damage simply because they start out with so much less hp than an ogre warrior. Its just something you have to consider when picking your race and class. The extra hitpoints and regen you get as an ogre or troll shaman respectively make up for the low charisma.

 

[Aneas]

If anything, from a roleplace experience, this does not make sense. Imagine, if you will, a little gnome going up against a big troll. The troll would be HUGE and extremely scary to the tiny gnome...the troll would intimidate the little gnome; having this by his side, the troll would be able to land spells more effeciently, one would think - so dont call this a roleplay issue - it's not.

I disagree. Where magic is concerned, size doesn't matter. Whichever party managed to convince the other of their own arcane power, or presence, if you will, would stand the best chance of getting their spell to land. It would be very much about charisma, as a charming demeanor can lull the opponent into letting their mental guard down.

Personally, I think it makes perfect sense for Trolls and Ogres to have more trouble landing spells, by mere virtue of their lower magic-using capabilities to begin with. Now whether that deficiency is too great at the moment or not is a different matter.

My own 2cp.

Ok, let's think about what u just said about charming demeanor letting the mental guard down. If you are correct then only female characters should be able to land spells effeciently, unless u are implying that there are a lot of gay males in SoD...in which case I dont think you are (I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this).

Charm should have nothing to do with resists....what charm should have a lot to do with is persuading and bargaining.

I think what should have a lot to do in dealing with resists is the following: When a female goes up against a male it can create many mixed emotions to the average male (IRL) such as nervousness and chivalry (a man doesnt want to hit a woman) and in this case perhaps they should allow the female gender to have a huge increase in their abiliity not to get resisted.

I think you should really revisit your understanding of the words, "charisma" and "charm". Though they can certainly be used in relation to opposite (or the same for that matter) genders being attracted to one another, that really has nothing to do with the context in which it's being used here. You've met both charming males and females in the past. You weren't necessarily attracted to them, but they did tend to put you at ease. In that respect, a magic user with higher charisma, or presence, might have the same effect on their enemy. Such a quality in a person is even referred to as "disarming".

What I was saying was that the bigger races would scare off the majority of the smaller races, this should lead to the bigger race to have an advantage over the smaller race...which should increase their ability to land a spell.

Sure the troll is dumber than the high elf, but the troll shaman has been trained to do his job (club, bash, cast nukes and heal), much like a boxer is taught to box (look at how dum Mike Tyson is and then look at how strong he was (in his prime)).

That might apply if size were the only factor that inspired fear. Would you automatically fear the large dog over the small one that breathes acid/fire? What if you new exactly how to deal with both? Are you suggesting that a troll would never fear a gnome, even when he knew the gnome could incinerate him? How scared would the adventurous gnome be in that situation?

Granted, we are talking about magic here, so it's almost as if anything goes, but I can certainly see why charisma has played a part in its successful use in the fantasy genre over the years.

 

[Mirp]

1) Trolls and ogres starting stats are exactly the same as they are on live.
2) Charisma doesn't effect spell resists on live.
3) Charisma does effect spell resists on SoD.

At this point I would have to ask, "Your point being...?" What makes you think the relationship is supposed to be the same between the two games?

4) When they designed charisma to influence spell resists they didn't take into consideration a troll and ogres extremely low charisma.
5) This means that it wasn't intended as a trade-off.

Do you really believe that? I sure don't. I'm quite confident that they put substantial consideration into such significant differences they code from live.

No offense, but it seems to me that you may be operating under couple of *very* shaky assumptions.

Well, if you had read everything I had written this wouldn't be a huge mystery. And about the "Do you really believe that?" I have to say yes. Why? Well, when the lead content designer says I make a strong point rather than agreeing with the 2 people who had prior said it was a trade off is where I draw my conclusion.

And just a friendly tip for you, Ace: Read everything I write. You don't scroll down to the last post, read 3 sentences and draw your conclusion. If you had read step 4 and 5 you might even be able to tie it all together. Where you get the idea that you understand exactly what I'm talking about by reading just fragments of my text, I do not know.

But hey, you get an A for effort.