Tradeskill Macro Checks
- Thread starter Syalara
- Start date
Tarutao
Staff Emeritus
You got 3 characters to max Mining skill and posted a thread complaining about them, and you weren't aware that they don't say what color the message is?
robopirateninja
Staff Emeritus
Computer games can be tough for the visually impaired
Syalara
Dalayan Beginner
Are you serious? Way to try and discredit my posts for no reason. If you need an explanation, here you go...
1. I read the passcolor text once and the failed text once. No need to read it over and over. I am going to go out on a limb and say I am not the only one who does not read it every time. Its not like its interesting reading or anything somebody would care to read multiple times.
2. I was incorrect about something minor. It happens. Ever make a mistake? Me too.
Animand
Dalayan Elder
He wasn't trying to discredit you, he was poking fun at you.
panthernoswar
Dalayan Beginner
Eh, when they first released it, I failed prolly 10 or so. But that was more due to the colors used and me not being able to tell the difference due to color blindness to a degree, but thats been fixxed.
panthernoswar
Dalayan Beginner
Yea, I was also one that complained about it, the white and the blue iirc looked the same to someone red/green color blind but it was changed to a darker shade of blue and solved I believe everyone's problems.
Tarutao
Staff Emeritus
I'll grant you that one. That blue was pretty light back then.
GuiardoTuneweaver
Staff Emeritus
No, there are different shades. Wiz did some adjusting iirc to make sure they could be told apart for the color blind. Putting the color in the macro check would make it very simple to macro the answer...
Current system:
1) Randomly checks, you have three minutes to respond and cannot TS during this time
2) If you type incorrect answer, don't answer for three minutes, locked for an hour
2a) If you fail three times in a row you are flirting with banning
3) If you answer correctly, you continue as normal
Better system:
1) Randomly checks, you have three minutes to respond and cannot TS during this time
2) If you type incorrect answer or don't answer for three minutes, nothing happens
2a) If you fail three times in a row, bye bye love, hello loneliness, I think I just got banned
3) If you answer correctly, you continue as normal
I've leveled one character up to 250 fishing (Puella, check her out on the fomelo), and I've done lots and lots of fishing for maps since then. I have never followed the rules of paying 100% full attention to my screen. I have done all of the following while fishing: eaten dinner, taken shit/piss, played with son, played with son and babysat nephew, read books, watched tv, played other characters, played on pokerstars, and countless other activities on my computer.
I have never failed a color check. Ever. It is amazingly easy to walk to the computer and hit the fish button once every less than three minutes. If it says I can't fish due to a check, I scroll up and find the check, and pass it.
I understand that shit happens and I've gotten lucky (or not gotten unlucky) and people will fail the tests due to being distracted for more than three minutes while under a check or PLing while under a check.
But, I have a hard time believing that shit could happen three times in a row.
So, just ban the people the fail three times in a row and leave the rest of us alone.
1) Randomly checks, you have three minutes to respond and cannot TS during this time
2) If you type incorrect answer, don't answer for three minutes, locked for an hour
2a) If you fail three times in a row you are flirting with banning
3) If you answer correctly, you continue as normal
Better system:
1) Randomly checks, you have three minutes to respond and cannot TS during this time
2) If you type incorrect answer or don't answer for three minutes, nothing happens
2a) If you fail three times in a row, bye bye love, hello loneliness, I think I just got banned
3) If you answer correctly, you continue as normal
I've leveled one character up to 250 fishing (Puella, check her out on the fomelo), and I've done lots and lots of fishing for maps since then. I have never followed the rules of paying 100% full attention to my screen. I have done all of the following while fishing: eaten dinner, taken shit/piss, played with son, played with son and babysat nephew, read books, watched tv, played other characters, played on pokerstars, and countless other activities on my computer.
I have never failed a color check. Ever. It is amazingly easy to walk to the computer and hit the fish button once every less than three minutes. If it says I can't fish due to a check, I scroll up and find the check, and pass it.
I understand that shit happens and I've gotten lucky (or not gotten unlucky) and people will fail the tests due to being distracted for more than three minutes while under a check or PLing while under a check.
But, I have a hard time believing that shit could happen three times in a row.
So, just ban the people the fail three times in a row and leave the rest of us alone.
Tarutao
Staff Emeritus
(I would like to take a moment to let you know that this isn't up to me... moving along...)
I do like Puella's suggestion, but I'd make it 3 times in a row or 3 times in a week (both being in place, not just one).
I suspect, however, that lacking the hour-long reminder that you failed a macro check would cause even more angst when people fail a third macro check in a row without noticing they failed a first one.
The "I shouldn't be forced to pay enough attention to my fisher/miner to notice a huge block of text or the reminders everytime I try to fish/mine for three minutes afterwards" argument would be unchanged but more angsty if there wasn't that additional hour of reminders about a failed macro check. Not that I think this is a bad thing, but yeah...
(I would like to take a moment to remind you know that this isn't up to me)
I do like Puella's suggestion, but I'd make it 3 times in a row or 3 times in a week (both being in place, not just one).
I suspect, however, that lacking the hour-long reminder that you failed a macro check would cause even more angst when people fail a third macro check in a row without noticing they failed a first one.
The "I shouldn't be forced to pay enough attention to my fisher/miner to notice a huge block of text or the reminders everytime I try to fish/mine for three minutes afterwards" argument would be unchanged but more angsty if there wasn't that additional hour of reminders about a failed macro check. Not that I think this is a bad thing, but yeah...
(I would like to take a moment to remind you know that this isn't up to me)
robopirateninja
Staff Emeritus
is the whole point of these checks in the first place
Tarutao
Staff Emeritus
My point was that the angsty invalid arguments/complaints would be more angsty and at least as invalid.
In response to Tyrone's post, I point out that we are in agreement on this point, but perhaps I was unclear in my previous post about the paraphrased argument being invalid (for specifically the reason Tyrone said).
In response to Tyrone's post, I point out that we are in agreement on this point, but perhaps I was unclear in my previous post about the paraphrased argument being invalid (for specifically the reason Tyrone said).
Syalara
Dalayan Beginner
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
I understood the point of the macro checks to be for catching illegal botters/macroers, not to punish folks for walking away from the keyboard at the wrong time. /shrug
"I suspect, however, that lacking the hour-long reminder that you failed a macro check would cause even more angst when people fail a third macro check in a row without noticing they failed a first one." - Tarutao
This brought another idea into my head for improving the system, which is to increase the time to pass a check from three to ten minutes. This would mean that a legitimate TS'er would have to hit the button and then walk away for more than 10minutes before failing a test. This would still catch people who hit the button and don't pay attention to the fact that they are no longer catching fish.
Which brings us to the better than better system:
1) Randomly checks, you have ten minutes to respond and cannot TS during this time
2) If you type incorrect answer or don't answer for ten minutes, nothing happens
2a) If you fail three times in a row, bye bye love, hello loneliness, I think I just got banned
3) If you answer correctly, you continue as normal
This would have the effect of making it nigh impossible to fail a test due to PL (unless you didn't see the correct color before crashing), would prevent ridiculous punishment for needed diversion from the keyboard after you have hit the button (examples of forced diversions including kid's fighting, glass breaking, dog's peeing, etc) unless you are unable to get back to the keyboard within 10 minutes.
Preventing the TS from working during the 10 minutes prevents people from benefiting setting up 10 minute macros. Although an idea just popped into my head that someone could set up macro software to audio alert them when a passcolor check happens. But in this case, said software would work just as well against any timer, be it three or thirty minutes.
Again, I think the three strikes your banned is 99% failsafe, as you would have to have some ungodly bad luck to fail three passcolor tests in a row with a 10 minute window to pass.
Overall, I think the three minutes is fine, but I can see a younger (not as intellectually endowed?) person getting into a panic over a three minute test, where a ten minute test might alleviate some of this angst.
And hey, if you fail a test and realize you failed it, no biggy, just pay closer attention for the next test, pass it, and you're in the clear to fail three in a row again. If you fail two and you know it, then pay really really close attention and don't F that third one up.
This brought another idea into my head for improving the system, which is to increase the time to pass a check from three to ten minutes. This would mean that a legitimate TS'er would have to hit the button and then walk away for more than 10minutes before failing a test. This would still catch people who hit the button and don't pay attention to the fact that they are no longer catching fish.
Which brings us to the better than better system:
1) Randomly checks, you have ten minutes to respond and cannot TS during this time
2) If you type incorrect answer or don't answer for ten minutes, nothing happens
2a) If you fail three times in a row, bye bye love, hello loneliness, I think I just got banned
3) If you answer correctly, you continue as normal
This would have the effect of making it nigh impossible to fail a test due to PL (unless you didn't see the correct color before crashing), would prevent ridiculous punishment for needed diversion from the keyboard after you have hit the button (examples of forced diversions including kid's fighting, glass breaking, dog's peeing, etc) unless you are unable to get back to the keyboard within 10 minutes.
Preventing the TS from working during the 10 minutes prevents people from benefiting setting up 10 minute macros. Although an idea just popped into my head that someone could set up macro software to audio alert them when a passcolor check happens. But in this case, said software would work just as well against any timer, be it three or thirty minutes.
Again, I think the three strikes your banned is 99% failsafe, as you would have to have some ungodly bad luck to fail three passcolor tests in a row with a 10 minute window to pass.
Overall, I think the three minutes is fine, but I can see a younger (not as intellectually endowed?) person getting into a panic over a three minute test, where a ten minute test might alleviate some of this angst.
And hey, if you fail a test and realize you failed it, no biggy, just pay closer attention for the next test, pass it, and you're in the clear to fail three in a row again. If you fail two and you know it, then pay really really close attention and don't F that third one up.
robopirateninja
Staff Emeritus
People who walk away from their keyboard, leaving it UNATTENDED with a MACRO running are guilty of UNATTENDED MACROING. These UNATTENDED MACROING CHECKS are meant to find and discourage this type of behavior, which shall henceforth be termed UNATTENDED MACROING. Using a third party program that automates tasks even more than the in-game client allows is a particularly egregious form of UNATTENDED MACROING, but is far from the only one.
The same people who have complained repeatedly in this thread would be in exactly the same boat under this change you propose to the system. Three minutes is plenty of time to read and respond to a brick of text. Tripling this time would only benefit people who use UNATTENDED MACROS for ten minutes at a time instead of three.Puella said:
Like many others, I'm not particularly in favor of a system that automatically bans you.
How does this affect PL macro check fails? If you get PL you never get the message and you don't see the macro color, having tree minutes or ten minutes to respond won't affect anything.
Also I'm not sure many people in this thread grasp that broken glass, screaming children or urinating dogs are not exactly mitigating factors in this discussion. Not only is it ridiculous to expect you to back up a claim of a failed macro check with evidence that it was for one of these reasons, we don't care. If your life is so busy that you simply cannot pay attention to a screen for three minutes, either fish one cast at a time instead of macroing several attempts and walking away, or fish when the kids are in bed, the dog is outside and your bourbon is in a plastic sippy cup with a lid.
If the idea of having to tell what color a color is within three minutes throws you into a panic and drains your ability to type /cm passcolor [a color] this is not the game for you, as you will often be throwin into situations when you need to press more than one button in less than three minutes.
This is already the system, except you can't accidently completely miss a check.
I don't like your system for many reasons, but I'm curious most of all as to why you seem to think that players who get all randy about their ability to fish for an hour being taken away will be totally ok with being BANNED instead.
"How does this affect PL macro check fails? If you get PL you never get the message and you don't see the macro color, having tree minutes or ten minutes to respond won't affect anything." - robopirateninja
Answer: I was under the impression that people were getting the message prior to PL, and then not knowing the answer was not input. Hence, more time would fix the problem. I see your point if the message is missed and then PL happens.
"I don't like your system for many reasons, but I'm curious most of all as to why you seem to think that players who get all randy about their ability to fish for an hour being taken away will be totally ok with being BANNED instead." - robopirateninja
Answer: The idea came from the following thought process: 1) legitimate TS'ers don't like being punished for 1 screwup, 2) legitimate TS'ers are likely to only have one screwup while illigitimate TSer's are likely to have more, 3) from what I understand, the current system already flags an account for banning after multiple failures 4) Conclusion: get rid of unneeded punishment, leave flags, and GM ban accounts with multiple screwups.
Notes for further explanation:
Putting a hard line on the number of screw-ups before a GM can legitimately ban someone I felt was a necessary increase in the severity of the final punishment if the hour delay punishment was taken away. That, and I'm the kind of hard ass that would ban someone after two failures in a row unless they proved to me they were blind and/or under the age of two.
Having the system autoban was never my idea, I appologize if it came across that way. My idea was the leave the current ban structure in place, which as far as I know is GM's banning illegitimate TSer's after several failures, and then adding the hard line on failures.
All the stuff about changing the time needed to pass the test is just fluff and isn't really needed as far as I'm concerned.
Answer: I was under the impression that people were getting the message prior to PL, and then not knowing the answer was not input. Hence, more time would fix the problem. I see your point if the message is missed and then PL happens.
"I don't like your system for many reasons, but I'm curious most of all as to why you seem to think that players who get all randy about their ability to fish for an hour being taken away will be totally ok with being BANNED instead." - robopirateninja
Answer: The idea came from the following thought process: 1) legitimate TS'ers don't like being punished for 1 screwup, 2) legitimate TS'ers are likely to only have one screwup while illigitimate TSer's are likely to have more, 3) from what I understand, the current system already flags an account for banning after multiple failures 4) Conclusion: get rid of unneeded punishment, leave flags, and GM ban accounts with multiple screwups.
Notes for further explanation:
Putting a hard line on the number of screw-ups before a GM can legitimately ban someone I felt was a necessary increase in the severity of the final punishment if the hour delay punishment was taken away. That, and I'm the kind of hard ass that would ban someone after two failures in a row unless they proved to me they were blind and/or under the age of two.
Having the system autoban was never my idea, I appologize if it came across that way. My idea was the leave the current ban structure in place, which as far as I know is GM's banning illegitimate TSer's after several failures, and then adding the hard line on failures.
All the stuff about changing the time needed to pass the test is just fluff and isn't really needed as far as I'm concerned.
Moraelintz
Dalayan Elder
I would like to preface my post with saying that I am new to the server and am more apt to just read people's arguments/complaints than to give feedback.
First off this is a game, a great game, that is FREE! If you do not like the time sink of fishing/mining and paying attention to it then DON'T fish or mine. The checks are there to try and help all of the non cheaters by punishing or catching the cheaters. The point of the game is to play and have fun and there seam to be plenty of people that do not mind or actually enoy mining and fishing that if you are a hardcore stradeskiller and want to tradeskill without mining/fishing it can be done, it will just cost you some more due to havig to buy the materials instead of work for them.
First off this is a game, a great game, that is FREE! If you do not like the time sink of fishing/mining and paying attention to it then DON'T fish or mine. The checks are there to try and help all of the non cheaters by punishing or catching the cheaters. The point of the game is to play and have fun and there seam to be plenty of people that do not mind or actually enoy mining and fishing that if you are a hardcore stradeskiller and want to tradeskill without mining/fishing it can be done, it will just cost you some more due to havig to buy the materials instead of work for them.