Tradeskill Macro Checks

[Syalara]

I have leveled 3 miners to max skill (don't ask) and a fisherman so I have seen my fair share of macro checks and have some thoughts on the system.

1. The system in and of itself is intimidating to new players. Several times a week in DB I see people panicking about the checks and freaking out because they think they are on some kind of "cheaters list"...many freak out without failing as well.

The system is not pleasant or inviting, it is off putting and as friendly as a kick in the balls.

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2. The check does not trigger at the start of a skill (when its clicked) it triggers when the skill completes (you get ore/fish or dont). This makes it very difficult to do anything else while working on tradeskills. I completely understand why we do not want illegal macros but lets face some facts...Fishing is boring as shit but at least it can be macro'd in game, Mining is worse off since its the same tedium of fishing just without the ability to be macro'd in game.

Many people find it tolerable to mine/fish while doing other things like listening to audio books, attending to children/family, reading, doing homework....whatever.

The issue is that if anything takes your attention away from the computer you run the risk of failing a macro check. Tradeskill enough and you are likely to fail many. If the check came at the start of a cycle the chance would be greatly reduced (less so for the fishing macro).

I almost failed one just now becuase I clicked the mine ability and alt tabbed to write this.

I had mentioned this in DB chat and a GM responded saying that this would be unattended macroing because I clicked on mine and put my attention elsewhere. Sorry, but that is absolutely absurd. Would it be unattended macroing to click on a buff (hi2u 30sec cast focus/pet/whatnot) and get up for a drink or a pee? Will we be seeing macro checks for spell casts soon? Silly isnt it.

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3. The rewards are not worth the pain in the ass that the checks are. I have not once mined something above my skill range or fished something I could not otherwise. I fail just as often as without the buffs. I guess if I parsed for a month I *may* be able to show some change with the buffs on but I highly doubt anyone will find anything that can not be contributed to the RNG.

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4. If we can detect MQ users and third party programs, why go through all this hassle anyway? The number of cheaters in relation to the total population is/was very low. These types of checks are like trying to shoot a gnat with a cannon. You may hit the gnat but you'll also be destroying the wall that was behind it and the bus on the other side of the wall and the kids on the bus and the blahblah...

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5. When I worked as a SysAdmin for a financial firm a handful of my users had an RSA token they had to input every 5 minutes to remain logged in to certain resources. This was by FAR the most disliked and complained about security measure I have ever come across. The current system reminds me of that. Inconviencing the many for the illusion of safety.

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6. This is a game. The checks add nothing to that but certainly do subtract from it being a pleasurable experience.

 

[vistachiri]

I agree with this pretty much completely. Macro checks seem absolutely unnecessary, and are present in skills that are already awful enough. I really can't readily see why anyone would even bother to macro them at all.

The only thing I can point out that is possibly a bit wrong would be in 4. I'm making a guess that the way MQ was detected last run was using an exploit in the software. New versions might not carry this vulnerability (and in all probability would not), add the fact that someone can much of the time compile their own source for freeware programs.. Well you see where thats going.

I'm willing to bet the log of them ends up with literal truckloads of false positives. The only thing I'm sure macro checks have accomplished is making most people (even those who were previously interested in doing tskills) completely lose interest in it, not because they are cheating, but because it represents a gigantic pain in the ass.

 

[Tarutao]

(1) Hmm... I'll give you the "intimidating to new players" thing.

(2) You should not be clicking a fishing hotkey that fishes for you 5 times over the course of the next 60 seconds and then walk away for 5 mintues. That is unattended macroing. If you cannot be bothered to keep an eye on your screen for 10 seconds after mining before not looking at your screen for long enough to fail an unattended macroing check, then you shouldn't be mining.

If what you're doing diminishes the level of attention to your fishing / mining to the point of being able to fail a passcolor check, then that's "unattended" (even if not "unattended macroing")

(3) The rewards are a very small bonus (assuming they actually do anything... I don't have any reason to suspect they do, either). If they don't actually do anything, that wouldn't be a real problem, though.

(4) It's harder to check to see if someone has a non-electrical object set to hit their keyboard's "9" key every 15 seconds than see if they are using MQ.

(5) It's a very very small inconvenience if you're actively fishing or mining. That said, we're open to ideas to improve on it.

(6) The detraction from the game is much smaller than the harm done by people who can fish or mine overnight.

 

[Syalara]

I see what you are saying about programs or non electrical tools that will press a button over and over but wasnt that the whole point for the "this area has been all fished out" type of things?

There is no way to be 100% safe from every avenue of cheating and in trying to prevent things if you are making the game less enjoyable for legit players there is an issue.

Your definition of unattended while accurate is a tad on the strict side. Is it really unreasonable to imagine that somebody presses the mine button or fish macro and has his/her attention drawn elsewhere? Of course it isn't. It is unreasonable however to demand a higher level of attention to mining/fishing then say...raiding high end content.

 

[kibeth]

Syalara has a point. I remember certain encounters I would simply watch television and hit the heal button about every 8 seconds, because i didnt need to pay attention to win. Also thats how trash went in basically every zone in SoD except UC and PoFrost

 

[cdmaftw]

I thought I'd chime in with a few thoughts about this discussion because I agree whole heartily with the OP. The current passcolor check system has some major flaws that result in a serious detriment to fun. I will try to explain why I think this is the case in a concise manner, but I'm sure I will end up with a wall of text. I apologize for this "forum faux pas".

Macroing is the automation of any activity in-game and is usually done so that the character will perform a repetitive action over a period of time while the player is free to do other things. In other words, the macroing imitates the player activity thereby eliminating the need of the player. Macroing is handled in two ways: mechanical and internal. Mechanical macroing uses objects outside the computer to hit a button, or series of buttons, while internal macroing uses certain programs to achieve the same result.

I believe this definition of macroing, while long-winded, is essential to this discussion as all three of my points will make reference to it.

First, walking away from the computer after hitting the mining or fishing button to do other things does not constitute macroing. The only way this could possibly be considered macroing is if the watching the screen in the time between hitting the button and the success or failure message showing is required, but even that argument fails because the player did not resort to a third party program or method to achieve this result. The idea that not watching the screen is a ludicrous one and I will not bother to address is further.

I would go farther to argue that even setting up a fishing macro that casts five times within a minute while the player is not at the keyboard is also not a bannable macro as it does not use a third party program to achieve this result. The macro used is all within game and I cannot find a server rules that prevents this type of macro. The only server rule I could find that concerned macroing in the slightest was,

"Third Party Programs
Any third-party programs that is designed to alter the client, sniff or alter the data communication between client and server, or automate any task within the client are expressively forbidden. Log parsers are OK."

Again, neither fishing macros or walking away after hitting the mining or fishing button fall within this rule.

Second, creating a mechanical macro that could efficiently mimic the actions that must be taken while fishing or mining would be exceedingly difficult. The mechanism would have to be able to know when a spot is fished or mined out and be able to walk to the next node successfully as well as hitting the the mining or fishing button. The way fishing and mining are implemented is such a deterrent to mechanical macroing that a passcolor system becomes moot.

Third, any advanced internal macroing system that is capable of repeating keyboard and mouse commands will also be advanced enough to enter the proper commands to bypass a passcolor check. Even then, such programs are so invasive in terms of packet sniffing or altering that a GM will be able to discover this type of macroing without the use of the passcolor system as has been seen in the recent "great purges".

To summarize my points briefly:

1. Walking away from a computer after hitting a fishing or mining button is not macroing as no activity a player should have been responsible for completing has been automated.
2. The current mining and fishing systems are implemented is such a way as to make mechanical macroing inefficient and the passcolor system moot.
3. Internal macroing can bypass the passcolor system and is easier detected by other means.

With these three points in mind I must ask the question, "Who is the passcolor system trying to punish?"

As both mechanical and internal macroing would be as affected by the passcolor check coming when the mining or fishing is pressed as when the success or failure message is shown and the passcolor system is not an effective way to catch these types of macroing I can only conclude that the passcolor system is not directed towards them.

That only leaves one possible conclusion to my previous question: the passcolor system's purpose it to prevent people from leaving their computers after having hit the appropriate tradeskill button although there is nothing to support that this is any form of macroing or that it runs contrary to the the server rules.

For these reasons I respectfully request that the passcolor check be moved to when a player hits the button or, and a much better solution in my opinion, scrap the whole system in its entirity.

 

[Glamrin]

I would go farther to argue that even setting up a fishing macro that casts five times within a minute while the player is not at the keyboard is also not a bannable macro as it does not use a third party program to achieve this result. The macro used is all within game and I cannot find a server rules that prevents this type of macro. The only server rule I could find that concerned macroing in the slightest was

There was a ruling made on this way before the passcolor test was introduced. That ruling clearly stated that using any features of the eq client was ok, ie making a fishing button that fishes 5 times is fine, using 3rd party software for macroing is definitely not.

As for the unattended part, lets be honest, if you do mining or fishing you're likely not sitting there intensely watching the screen. You're either occupied with schoolwork or work on another computer screen (or alt+tabing) or you're watching tv, raiding/grouping on another character or putting your main focus elsewhere. Watching a screen while hitting 1 button, seeing your character raise a mining pick and hit it on the ground just isnt exciting enough to occupy your full attention. For me, that means I've missed a check now and then although I do manage to catch most of them now and then it happens... this is likely the case for most people who do mining or fishing.

If comparing this to grouping or farming though, I could pull a few easy mobs on my tank with max ds on, then go to the bathroom or do other stuff for 5-10 minutes and come back to loot up... I could also afk in a group to go fix food and get exp while the rest of the group moves on, there are no checks for that and it's also currently considered ok (however using a 3rd party software to automate healing, nuking or whatever while youre gone is not).

Still, I dont think people realise how common it used to be with people using 3rd party software for things like mining and fishing before the passcolor test was introduced, and the system has really helped lowering that. Personally, I find it extremely annoying when mining and fishing, and it is probably one of the reasons I spend way less time mining and fishing now. I would welcome any improvements to the system to make it less painful on non-cheating players, but unfortunately I dont think removing it would be the right way to go.

 

[eqjenius]

The OP makes a lot of good points, but this thread is basically off-point from the only reason the macro check exists in the first place. IF all illegitimate tradeskillers could be detected by other means, it would be no issue to remove the macro check. I'm assuming, however, that the conditional cannot be ascertained to the devs' satisfaction.



The OP does, however, make one very good point which would help eliminate the burden of the macro check from legitimate players:

The check does not trigger at the start of a skill (when its clicked) it triggers when the skill completes (you get ore/fish or dont).

If the macro check would be programmed to trigger when the skill button is pressed, at least 20% (1 out of 5) of all tradeskill timeouts would be avoided because players would see the macro check before alt-tabbing or turning their heads away from the screen.

I think this would be very help to eliminate the burden of the macro check on legitimate tradeskillers without compromising potential game security in any way.

 

[Syalara]

I find it difficult to believe that there exists no other way to ascertain who is botting mining/fishing. However, assuming that another less intrusive method is outside the limitations of our client or abilities then I'll offer the following suggestions relating to the current system.

I believe at a minimum we should..

1. If able, move the check to the beginning of the skill trigger and not the end.
-- For reasons already discussed

2. Remove or reduce the 1hr skill cockblock on failed check.
-- The only people this hurts are legit folks who aren't paying full attention to the screen or those who after mining for 6+ hours type in an incorrect color because their brains have melted and are now dripping out their ears. Botters likely wont give a shit or even notice.

3. Reduce the frequency of the checks.
-- Random is not random and it never has been in this (or any?) mmo. Random is streaky in practice. It is no fun to be hit by back to back checks, maybe I have a persecution complex but it just feels shitty besides being quite annoying. Is there a way to block a check if one has been performed successfully within 10 minutes or so?

4. Make the buffs meaningful
-- Everybody I talk to seems to draw the same conclusion, the buffs are worthless. Make that less so. They are of a short enough duration that regardless of the strength of the buff the overall effect will be minor anyway. Increase the chance to mine whatever ore you are attacking to 100% and for fishing make it 20% to snag a map. Overall this wont unbalance anything but it will certainly change peoples attitudes towards the system since the system is no longer acting solely as an adversary.

5. Modify the wording to be less confusing and/or threatening.
-- If you fulfill the suggestions above then the wording can be revamped to make it simply sound like an extra buff to your tradeskill and as an integral part of the game. If a person keeps ignoring the buffs then have a live staff member check in on the person same as you would anyway.

*Your continued mining has brought you into a zen like state, you feel at one with your mining pick. Your mining pick begins to glow RED! Please identify the color correctly to receive a brief bonus to your skill.*

*Your dedication to fishing has not gone unnoticed by the gods. The Pantheon imbues your rod with an ethereal BLUE glow and granting you their favor!! Please identify the color correctly to receive a brief bonus to your skill.*

If you still want to insist on some kind of skill block for a failed check then you can word it similar to...

*Your mining pick would like to express its displeasure at your failure to notice that is was GLOWING and it will be going on strike for the next 5 minutes.*

*The Pantheon gets pretty pissy when their nice gestures get ignored by the mortals. No fish will be enticed by your bait for the next 5 minutes.*


EDIT:
Just realized that if the macro check is initiated at the start of a skill and the buffs are boosted then folks will likely just spam the mine key until they see the macro test. Would there be a way to prevent that type of abuse or would it be necessary to leave the check at the end of the skill?

 

[Prospero]

Another thing that has not yet been brought up is this: the few times I have failed a macro check was because I got checked right before I PL'd, and then when I get back I have failed a macro check and need to find something else to do for an hour. Honestly, I do not see why doing fishing/mining is held to a higher standard of being at the computer than anything else in game. As has been brought up many times before, one can be doing almost anything else and walk away from their computer for a couple minutes or whatever and still be getting benefits from their group xp'ing whatever, but somehow fishing or mining is held to a different standard?

 

[robopirateninja]

I find it difficult to believe that there exists no other way to ascertain who is botting mining/fishing.

Multiple staffers have said that this is not ideal, it is simply the best solution we can come up with. If you can think of a system that will catch both software and irl mechanical inputs as well as the macro check does, please share!

2. Remove or reduce the 1hr skill cockblock on failed check.
-- The only people this hurts are legit folks who aren't paying full attention to the screen or those who after mining for 6+ hours type in an incorrect color because their brains have melted and are now dripping out their ears. Botters likely wont give a shit or even notice.

The system is intended to punish those who are not paying attention to their macroed tasks. If you have been performing macroed tasks for so long that reading your chat bar has become prohibitively difficult, maybe you should get some sleep, or go outside, or not fish for digital fish for six straight hours. I have no idea how you could come to the conclusion that a botter failing EVERY macro check and getting locked out for an hour each time is somehow less detrimental to them than a non-afk player failing a check once in a while for whatever reason. One hour less of fishing = less fish, less maps, less profitability from using a non approved input device, whether it's hardware or software.

3. Reduce the frequency of the checks.
-- Random is not random and it never has been in this (or any?) mmo. Random is streaky in practice. It is no fun to be hit by back to back checks, maybe I have a persecution complex but it just feels shitty besides being quite annoying. Is there a way to block a check if one has been performed successfully within 10 minutes or so?

Honestly, I disagree here. I've done a fair amount of fishing, and while I was unemployed for a few weeks I watched 8 seasons of sg1 while fishing without failing any macro checks because they happened so infrequently. I've also had two occur within a few minutes of each other, but considering that the intended purpose of them is for you to pay attention to your screen, it shouldn't actually matter if they happen minutes or days apart.

4. Make the buffs meaningful
-- Everybody I talk to seems to draw the same conclusion, the buffs are worthless. Make that less so. They are of a short enough duration that regardless of the strength of the buff the overall effect will be minor anyway. Increase the chance to mine whatever ore you are attacking to 100% and for fishing make it 20% to snag a map. Overall this wont unbalance anything but it will certainly change peoples attitudes towards the system since the system is no longer acting solely as an adversary.

Evidence here is completely anecdotal, but I felt like the "learn faster" fishing buff actually worked, and found myself actually wanting macro checks really badly while fishing in PoA. The buffs are definitely kind of iffy as-is, because they don't provide a visible benefit. Whether they are working or not you never really know, you could have just gotten lucky or unlucky while the thing was on. Either way though, they aren't meant to be fantastic rewards. You earn them by paying attention to your screen and (if you're a dedicated TS bot) pressing your RED macro once. They are a side benefit to the system to compensate for the mild annoyance of typing the passcolor. The passcolor system doesn't rely on the buffs to justify its existence.

5. Modify the wording to be less confusing and/or threatening.
-- If you fulfill the suggestions above then the wording can be revamped to make it simply sound like an extra buff to your tradeskill and as an integral part of the game. If a person keeps ignoring the buffs then have a live staff member check in on the person same as you would anyway.

*Your continued mining has brought you into a zen like state, you feel at one with your mining pick. Your mining pick begins to glow RED! Please identify the color correctly to receive a brief bonus to your skill.*

*Your dedication to fishing has not gone unnoticed by the gods. The Pantheon imbues your rod with an ethereal BLUE glow and granting you their favor!! Please identify the color correctly to receive a brief bonus to your skill.*

If you still want to insist on some kind of skill block for a failed check then you can word it similar to...

*Your mining pick would like to express its displeasure at your failure to notice that is was GLOWING and it will be going on strike for the next 5 minutes.*

*The Pantheon gets pretty pissy when their nice gestures get ignored by the mortals. No fish will be enticed by your bait for the next 5 minutes.*

I did quick search for the current passcolor text and didn't find it, but from memory it is very specific and as unambiguous as possible. I never found it threatening. The post-failure text I could see as being slighty scary maybe? Regardless I think that having the check tell what it is actually doing and why is the best solution, although "your mining pick is MAD" is kind of cute.

Decreasing the lockout time after a failure will ONLY help those who fail macro checks, and provide the most substantial benefits to people who are using macros while afk/not paying attention. I can't really see that as a solution of any kind.


I agree that the passcolor system is somewhat clunky, but in these sordid days of bobby duck head water sippers, you never can be too careful.

I haven't actually done any mining, but while fishing you can't start a new fishing attempt until your current one is completed, so no worries on that front.

I've fished for many many hours, and I have failed my own share of macros. It can be annoying, especially when you leave for a moment to answer the phone or the door, or take a shit and then can't fish for an hour, but you aren't supposed to be fishing while you do those things, so its hard for me to actually be upset about it. If there was a way we could make the farming tradeskills more interactive that wouldn't just be a variation on the current "input text every once in a while" anti-macro system I would be all for it, but I have yet to hear anything that matches cm passcolor for ease and simplicity for the job it gets done.

Another thing that has not yet been brought up is this: the few times I have failed a macro check was because I got checked right before I PL'd, and then when I get back I have failed a macro check and need to find something else to do for an hour.

This, is god damn annoying but is more a symptom of PL than the passcolor system, and would plague any sort of interactive macro check.

Honestly, I do not see why doing fishing/mining is held to a higher standard of being at the computer than anything else in game. As has been brought up many times before, one can be doing almost anything else and walk away from their computer for a couple minutes or whatever and still be getting benefits from their group xp'ing whatever, but somehow fishing or mining is held to a different standard?

Perhaps because if you afk for a substantial amount of time in an xp or raid zone youll probably end up dead or get left behind repops and won't be able to loot anything, but if you afk macro tradeskills overnight you end up with a pack full of valuable goods?

 

[bignirish88]

but if you afk macro tradeskills overnight you end up with a pack full of valuable goods?

Ever tried fishing in a spot that's fished out? or mining in a place without ore? you certainly don't wind up with a bag full of goods.
if you got lucky you might end up with 1/15th (probably less) or so if you ran a program or used some setup to hit the "9" key overnight as opposed to actively mining, and fishing is probably worse since maps are so uncommon to begin with. really i don't see what the unattended macroing tests do in the first place. sure you discourage people from turning on an autotyper by catching them and not letting them fish for an hour. however if they turned on an autotyper and afk'd for an hour they would only catch fish for what, the first 5 minutes? Then they would spend an hour catching nothing, same result. Mining is the same way, only if it is still the way i remember it, you'll mine everything in an area in more like 2-3 minutes and need to move on. so again afk for an hour with an autotyper going and you wind up with a whole bag of nothing, not even rocks.
so what are macro checks here for?

 

[Syalara]

Multiple staffers have said that this is not ideal, it is simply the best solution we can come up with. If you can think of a system that will catch both software and irl mechanical inputs as well as the macro check does, please share!

You already have a system to dissuade mechanical inputs with the limited number of times you can fish or mine in one spot. This has been said already in this thread. As to the software cheats, you all banned a bunch of folks for using MQ so I will assume you have a way of checking for its usage...unless I am to believe all those were banned for failing passcolor checks.

The system is intended to punish those who are not paying attention to their macroed tasks. ....I have no idea how you could come to the conclusion that a botter failing EVERY macro check and getting locked out for an hour each time is somehow less detrimental to them than a non-afk player failing a check once in a while for whatever reason.

It should not be difficult to comprehend. Somebody who is using a cheat (mechanical or software) has zero effort and zero actual time invested into the task. So if they get zero reward by being locked out on the first attempt or whatever what did they lose? Nothing. Compare that to somebody who is more or less devoting their attention to the tradeskill. They lose an hour of actual legitimate usage because they alt tabbed at the wrong time or had to pee.

Also, I didnt think the system in and of itself was intended punish. i thought it was intended to flag those who may be circumventing the rules for further examination. I am not keen on any automated in game system designed for the purpose of punishment. Are you?

Decreasing the lockout time after a failure will ONLY help those who fail macro checks, and provide the most substantial benefits to people who are using macros while afk/not paying attention. I can't really see that as a solution of any kind.

Again, I understood the purpose of the system to be an indicator to staff as to who may be worth a second glance and not as judge, jury, and executioner if you will.

I've fished for many many hours, and I have failed my own share of macros.

The fact that pretty much every tradeskiller has failed these checks should clearly point to the system being flawed to the point of uselessness. The rate of legit players being punished for not having their eyes glued every moment to the screen vs actual illegal macro users would be interesting to see.

 

[Allielyn]

Multiple staffers have said that this is not ideal, it is simply the best solution we can come up with. If you can think of a system that will catch both software and irl mechanical inputs as well as the macro check does, please share!

This. Also, I am tossing around a few other ideas for tricks used in conjunction with the macro check system that might make it more effective, and therefore may reduce the number of passcolor checks required.

Anyhow, let us know if you come up with anything. Really.

 

[Tarutao]

The fact that pretty much every tradeskiller has failed these checks should clearly point to the system being flawed to the point of uselessness.

I've never failed one, and I don't see why anyone should outside of really unfortunate PL timing.

 

[robopirateninja]

You already have a system to dissuade mechanical inputs with the limited number of times you can fish or mine in one spot. This has been said already in this thread. As to the software cheats, you all banned a bunch of folks for using MQ so I will assume you have a way of checking for its usage...unless I am to believe all those were banned for failing passcolor checks.

Like I said before I don't have a ton of experience mining and it would probably be more difficult to automate finding a vein than taking a few steps.

It should not be difficult to comprehend. Somebody who is using a cheat (mechanical or software) has zero effort and zero actual time invested into the task. So if they get zero reward by being locked out on the first attempt or whatever what did they lose? Nothing. Compare that to somebody who is more or less devoting their attention to the tradeskill. They lose an hour of actual legitimate usage because they alt tabbed at the wrong time or had to pee.

I don't understand your response.
you said: The only people this hurts are legit folks
I said: The real people this hurts are cheaters, who would fail 100% of the time, and have their rewards impacted far more than a legit user who fails occasionally through some freak occurrence. As mentioned by both of us the checks are random, so being vigilant and a Real Person At The Keyboard turns the macro system into an advantage for real players over any bots, or other tradeskillers who are fond of not paying attention while they do so.
Also, your computer fishing or mining while you are in the bathroom is not "legitimate usage."

Also, I didnt think the system in and of itself was intended punish. i thought it was intended to flag those who may be circumventing the rules for further examination. I am not keen on any automated in game system designed for the purpose of punishment. Are you?
Again, I understood the purpose of the system to be an indicator to staff as to who may be worth a second glance and not as judge, jury, and executioner if you will.

If it was an executioner, it would ban you for unauthorized third party software. It's more of a strong warning, and I would hope, a strong deterrent. Also no, I'm not a huge fan of this system, I just don't think your proposals are an improvement on its intended goals.

 

[lynnettell]

I think the only time I've failed one was when I kinda forgot I had my miner on, tabbed over, hit mine, tabbed back to raid.

And I dual box mine/fish a *lot*. If there is a way to improve the system, I'd be all for it. But honestly right now it's nothing more than a minor annoyance. I can watch TV, surf, whatever. It's not like you have fifteen seconds, you have three minutes? to reply to it. All it takes is actually looking at your screen once in a while.

 

[vistachiri]

Mining is the same way, only if it is still the way i remember it, you'll mine everything in an area in more like 2-3 minutes and need to move on. so again afk for an hour with an autotyper going and you wind up with a whole bag of nothing, not even rocks.
so what are macro checks here for?

It was last time I tried mining. Which pretty much makes setting up one of these

good for a few minutes at best.

You'd be lucky to get enough ore to make a single piece of medium armor (which for all armor, is alot of fucking ore ngl) unless you were still at the iron copper silver skill tier before the spot was out of everything. Which makes anything mechanical that also does not automate movement as well (which would need to be quite a bit more sophisticated than just mine forward mine forward).

Fishing however, while I think it's supposed to do that I haven't really bothered with it much so I can't really say.

 

[eqjenius]

I've never failed one, and I don't see why anyone should outside of really unfortunate PL timing.

I don't think everyone shares quite the same zeal for tradeskills as Tao.

Personally, I 100% understand when legitimate players miss the occasional macro check. It happens to most of us, despite our intentions to the contrary, and the one hour timeout is bothersome to a lot of folk who are trying to enjoy the game. I like the freedom of being able to go away from the fisher for a minute or five and then coming back, but the way Robo and Tao are talking, it sounds like what they would prefer is the elimination of the macro for these tradeskills. Is this a fair assessment?

If you really don't want people paying attention to other things while fishing/mining, then the solution seems easy: simply remove the capability of using the SoD macro system for fishing/mining.

Perhaps a clarification of the purpose behind the passcolor system is in order. Is the purpose to deter/limit cheaters, or is the purpose to deter using the built-in SoD macros in conjuction with tradeskills?

 

[Syalara]

I may just be horrible at macros but I dont think you can make one for mining.