My biggest problem with the system, is that I have an adult daughter with CP. she loves playing the game, but has difficulty with reading, and typing. She watchs for the Macrocheck, and even has hotbuttons made for the reply, otherwise someone would have to go to her comp and type in the reply for her. She gets very upset with herself when she fails to notice a check, or is logged on using someone elses comp.
Tradeskill Macro Checks
- Thread starter Syalara
- Start date
Mining is not macroable as far as I can tell. Is it at least possible to do something about PLing during a macro check? Maybe I am just unlucky, and I know that I forget to refresh often enough, but like I said it has happened to me more than twice and is really super annoying. Once I got PL, never saw the message, and came back to having failed a check 
I believe I have two good solutions, either of which I think would be fairly easy to develop.
Solution 1:
Augment the passcolor system with a CAPTCHA system: instead of a color check, make it a colored password check. The password would be randomly generated.
Instead of a tradeskill timeout of one hour, disallow fishing/mining until the correct colored password has been entered, allowing continued usage of the skill.
This solution would remove the hindrance of the tradeskill timeout for legitimate players while limiting illegitimate players in a more effective way than a tradeskill timeout does (since a third-party macro'er would automatically continue tradeskilling following the timeout period).
However, if the devs are also looking for a reporting mechanism for suspicious activity, then...
Solution 2:
Instead of a tradeskill timeout of one hour, a report would be sent to the GMs for attempts to fish while the the passcheck is active. If the number of attempts exceeds 5 in a given session, it's a pretty good bet you've got a third-party macro'er on your hands.
This solution would remove the hindrance of the tradeskill timeout for legitimate players while still notifying the GMs of unusual tradeskill activity. It would also be far more accurate at differentiating between legitimate players and third-party macro'ers.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
There is no reason whatsoever for a CAPTCHA system whatsoever. One could easily do the same thing with the current system. Not only are CAPTCHA's almost universally hated, any I could see popping up in the game should be easily defeatable by OCR, since I'm reasonably certain the client is pretty limited in terms of what it can do with text.
Removing the time limit and writing some form of script to detect when 3 colors have been entered on the same check within a minute or so would do essentially the same thing, without the need for a random password generation system.
Possible good solution
Script running once you use the pick or rod that runs until a minute after your last click. This script keeps a running tally of 5 attempts from the first click. It evaluates the time between each click. If the time between each is the same (I am somewhat unsure here as to how exact the client can get with times, so bear with me), it adds to a counter. Once that counter reaches above 10, an automated report is sent. This would work under the assumption that any automated method (including duckskilling, as I will now refer to it for my own amusement), would have the same amount of time between attempts over a long period of time, whereas it would be extremely unlikely that a human being would press the button at exactly the same intervals over the amount of attempts we're talking.
This should theoretically accomplish the same aim, while not annoying the hell out of everyone, and as an added gravy bonus, be undetectable. That might be desirable simply because I would expect it to follow that someone using one method of cheating would be more likely to use another method as well, than someone who was not doing so. Leading to a possible reduction in the amount of people you'd have to pop for 3rd party progs down the line, as they'd get popped by this first if they looked at tradeskilling and decided macroing it would be an infinite money paradise.
As an addition I would further suggest keeping the checks, but instead making them a bonus with no penalty, giving legitimate tradeskillers that are paying attention an edge on those that are pressing the button while reading a book.
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A check for repeat time limits between attempts would not work because the in-game macro system can be set up with different pause timers between each fish attempt.
These are good ideas.
These are good ideas.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
There are a limited number of times one could do this with a /doability macro and randomizing it would not be the same in game. One could just as easily modify it to detect a given sequence pattern and then compare it to the following sequence, and to the next as well. The numbers were thrown in purely to illustrate the concept, which still stays the same unless there is some method of randomizing pause timers I am unaware of.
Tarutao
Staff Emeritus
I don't think everyone shares quite the same zeal for tradeskills as Tao.
Well, someone has to be the human element hovering silently above you as you fish, just watching and taking notes...
Don't be startled if I spawn a really large dragon in front of you to see if you're watching the screen... I just look forward to seeing how a macro bot would try to respond to that.
EDIT: On second thought, be startled. That'll show me you're actually there.
lynnettell
Dalayan Elder
I failed tonight because I thought I had been on Anna's screen long enough to not get one. *shrug*
Folks, it's not like you're being banned for this stuff. It's not like they're saying OMG, you're a MQer!!
Things like the captcha will just make things worse. Believe it or not, you CAN fail once in a while, and nothing happens! Because GM's know people are human. If you fail 3-4 times in a row, guess what? Bye bye.
Lighten up, Francis.
Folks, it's not like you're being banned for this stuff. It's not like they're saying OMG, you're a MQer!!
Things like the captcha will just make things worse. Believe it or not, you CAN fail once in a while, and nothing happens! Because GM's know people are human. If you fail 3-4 times in a row, guess what? Bye bye.
Lighten up, Francis.
Glamrin
Staff Emeritus
you cant, you can press the button, then switch windows and pay attention to your other character or something. then come back a bit later to see that mining attempt finished and a possible macro check. Moving the check from end of skill to start of it / execution would indeed help real people to not miss the check a lot here (while I imagine it would be just as bad for a macro'd player).
GuiardoTuneweaver
Staff Emeritus
Having 3 max miners, and 2 max fishers, and mined/fished a TON, I have only failed one or 2 of the macro checks. It's really not a big deal.
If you want your minute or 5 away from the keyboard while doing this stuff, just don't push the button before you leave and you won't have a problem.
As for failing because you're paying attention to other things, the 2 minutes you get to answer is PLENTY to come back and see if you're being checked. If you can't look at your screen every 2 minutes, you shouldn't be mining/fishing anyway, as that really is unattended.
The hour timeout if you fail... given the amount of time most of us put into this game, ESPECIALLY if your a miner/fisher, an hour is like nothing. Go do something else for an hour. If you think it's annoying, make sure you pay enough attention to not fail.
And for those making the argument that MQ can be detected, as has been pointed out it's possible future versions won't be, and MQ is not the only keyboard automation system out there.
The only real problem presented here is the PL issue, to which there is no solution to besides refreshing in time. Anything else will either not be seen because of the PL, or enable the macroers to simply /q when a check is detected to avoid it.
If you want your minute or 5 away from the keyboard while doing this stuff, just don't push the button before you leave and you won't have a problem.
As for failing because you're paying attention to other things, the 2 minutes you get to answer is PLENTY to come back and see if you're being checked. If you can't look at your screen every 2 minutes, you shouldn't be mining/fishing anyway, as that really is unattended.
The hour timeout if you fail... given the amount of time most of us put into this game, ESPECIALLY if your a miner/fisher, an hour is like nothing. Go do something else for an hour. If you think it's annoying, make sure you pay enough attention to not fail.
And for those making the argument that MQ can be detected, as has been pointed out it's possible future versions won't be, and MQ is not the only keyboard automation system out there.
The only real problem presented here is the PL issue, to which there is no solution to besides refreshing in time. Anything else will either not be seen because of the PL, or enable the macroers to simply /q when a check is detected to avoid it.
BardofYore
Dalayan Beginner
Hi, I don't post often/ever but reading this I came up with a possible solution and I would like to discover if its feasible. I have two max miners btw.
Problem: catching macroers both mechanical and software.
Macroers: Will stay in roughly the same spot mining or fishing over and over for hours on end. While they can only mine/fish 5 out of 60 minutes or so that still adds up to ore/maps over time.
I was wondering if it was possible to record the number of mining/fishing in an area with dead ore/ no fish. If the number of mining/fishing attempts on purely dead ore/no fish exceed say 100 in a row you know you have a macroer.
This would be something that would be detectable and also wouldn't be a concern for a normal players since as long as you move around you would never ever get 100 mining/fishing in spots with dead ore/no fish.
I don't know if this is feasible or if this has already be suggested sometime in the past but I thought I would throw it out there.
I would like to see the passcolor go, but I understand why its in place. Hopefully a solution can be reached, if not, mining is still my profit in game =D.
-Kestomp 65 Warrior & Ceruleus 65 Bard
Problem: catching macroers both mechanical and software.
Macroers: Will stay in roughly the same spot mining or fishing over and over for hours on end. While they can only mine/fish 5 out of 60 minutes or so that still adds up to ore/maps over time.
I was wondering if it was possible to record the number of mining/fishing in an area with dead ore/ no fish. If the number of mining/fishing attempts on purely dead ore/no fish exceed say 100 in a row you know you have a macroer.
This would be something that would be detectable and also wouldn't be a concern for a normal players since as long as you move around you would never ever get 100 mining/fishing in spots with dead ore/no fish.
I don't know if this is feasible or if this has already be suggested sometime in the past but I thought I would throw it out there.
I would like to see the passcolor go, but I understand why its in place. Hopefully a solution can be reached, if not, mining is still my profit in game =D.
-Kestomp 65 Warrior & Ceruleus 65 Bard
BranFlakes
Dalayan Adventurer
Now that idea i like. but drop down the number to 10 or so. Noone should be in a used area more than 5 attempts at the worst (start the fishing macro, house catches on fire..). And even then, i dont think a 1 hour delay would mean much for that person. :whoa:
Basically you're defending the current system by saying the people who complain about it are just whining, and in fact they should pay more attention to the system instead of looking for alternative solutions.
That's one viewpoint. It's not one I share.
A bit hypocritical, are we? If "the only real problem here is the PL issue," which is caused by people not paying attention to their refresh time more carefully, is that not exactly the same as people not paying attention to the screen more carefully when a macro check pops up?
Secondly, macro'ers can ALREADY /q when a check is detected - or at least they could if they were AT the keyboard - which pretty much defeats the purpose of using a third-party program in the first place.
Folks, the problem people have is not with the color passcheck, which CANNOT be eliminated because third-party programs theoretically can't detect and properly respond to a color check. The problem is with the time limit given to answer such a question, FOLLOWED by a mandatory timeout for not answering it.
It seems to me this problem can be resolved by counting the number of attempts to fish while a passcheck is active. The time limit to respond to the passcheck AND the timeout could thereby be eliminated, along with the frustration for RL players that the current system creates.
GuiardoTuneweaver
Staff Emeritus
Not true. You do not understand the capabilities of macroing software.
If you got a warning saying "You will have PL in x seconds", then yes, it would be exactly the same. Since you do not, it is completely different. You are allowed to mine/fish while your clock is unattended, but not your screen.
syduck:And at the current time, if they /q when a check is detected, they cannot resume for an hour. Also, macroing software can be set up to /q for you when you are checked, so it doesn't defeat anything.
That's one viewpoint. It's not one I share.
And exactly how does that solve anything? The macro software can be set up to not mine again as soon as the check is activated, and just wait for the player to return to the keyboard and answer. In order for this to accomplish anything the checks would have to be made MUCH more frequent, otherwise might as well just remove all the checks.
Perhaps you would be kind enough as to share what you think the purpose of the passcheck actually is. Is it to limit macroers? Is it to deter macroers? Is it to CATCH macroers? Is it to deter players from using the SoD macros in general? It's difficult to find a solution that's more amenable to players without knowing specifically what the problem is that the devs are trying to solve with the passcheck.
Why don't you just eliminate the mandatory timeout? I fail to see how the timeout has much to do with catching third-party macroers - if that's indeed the goal.
lynnettell
Dalayan Elder
Honestly, WTF are you people still debating this?
I was on when macro test first went in, and let me tell you, dual box mining with a macro test every 3-5 minutes was a huge pain.
Now, they randomly pop it up on you, and your complaint is, I can't AFK enough? How tough is it. Honestly. I have SS's of me logging on miner, hitting mine once, getting checked, as do others. I can also tell you about times I've gotten PL before before ever getting one.
The timeout is needed so people will LOOK AT THEIR SCREEN. And stop thinking, just because I'm not using 3rd party programs (which if you're arguing, you'd better not be), I should be absolved of all mistakes! It's a punishment. Period. Just like going to jail because you're an idiot in /ooc.
It's in place to A. Catch macroers, via either mechanical, 3rd party other than MQ, etc.* B. Stop people from just hitting fish/mine/sneak/hide (yes, you do get checked on those as well, bet you never looked into that part!), etc. C. This is a social game, and sitting AFK for hours, well, you're not very social (hence why I have two 250 miners).
*I am not a GM, just annoyed with people who think these needs changed, when they weren't around for the inception, and it's much better now than it was then.
I was on when macro test first went in, and let me tell you, dual box mining with a macro test every 3-5 minutes was a huge pain.
Now, they randomly pop it up on you, and your complaint is, I can't AFK enough? How tough is it. Honestly. I have SS's of me logging on miner, hitting mine once, getting checked, as do others. I can also tell you about times I've gotten PL before before ever getting one.
The timeout is needed so people will LOOK AT THEIR SCREEN. And stop thinking, just because I'm not using 3rd party programs (which if you're arguing, you'd better not be), I should be absolved of all mistakes! It's a punishment. Period. Just like going to jail because you're an idiot in /ooc.
It's in place to A. Catch macroers, via either mechanical, 3rd party other than MQ, etc.* B. Stop people from just hitting fish/mine/sneak/hide (yes, you do get checked on those as well, bet you never looked into that part!), etc. C. This is a social game, and sitting AFK for hours, well, you're not very social (hence why I have two 250 miners).
*I am not a GM, just annoyed with people who think these needs changed, when they weren't around for the inception, and it's much better now than it was then.
I was doing fishing when the checks first went in to place, and I just didnt fish when it was still being tweaked because it sucked so much. I still think someone should come up with a better solution tbh. Also, I have never seen it trigger on sneak or hide, are you sure about that?
lynnettell
Dalayan Elder
Positive. I was working on my rogue to up her sneak/hide while just sitting around not mining, and got tested.
