Top ten problems on WR
- Thread starter zodium
- Start date
Melwin said:I wasn't aware "the guilds" (by which I presume you mean GOTW and Ruin since I doubt Impact will be twinking you out) accepted members at 25-35 at all.
I was referring more to either A. friends twinked and PLed by guild members so that they hit X level and join, or B. twinks created to fill holes in raids. When the guild tag is added doesn't really matter.
Either way it has the same effect. It creates a solo-only situation for those that don't qualify for the previously mentioned situations.
In answer to the comment about how the server population is different, I submit that it was easier to get a group when the server had 5-15 non-gotw players. Not a perfect, raid-efficient group, but a group nonetheless.
zodium
Dalayan Elder
The real problem is the lack of initiative.
At any point of time except the really really low hours I can make a 6-person group for say, Eldenal's Mansion, as long as I take the initiative to do so and don't just sit LFG and hope an existing group picks me up. And not just with Coltaine or Icarium, I can do it with Corlo and Sormo too (much less desired classes).
At any point of time except the really really low hours I can make a 6-person group for say, Eldenal's Mansion, as long as I take the initiative to do so and don't just sit LFG and hope an existing group picks me up. And not just with Coltaine or Icarium, I can do it with Corlo and Sormo too (much less desired classes).
End game WR is very biased to the perfect group.
Xping with a (tank, cleric, slower, enc, DPS, swingman) group is so dramatically faster than anything else its often not worth it otherwise.
The basic problem is mana management or more specifically healer mana management. The more you can get out of your healers mana pool, the more efficient your entire group is. An enchanter provides a significant DPS boost to any melees, CCs, and has KEI, AND can slow if need be. A shaman further increases the DPS to any melees and vastly improves the efficiency of healer mana (including his own). These positions are essentially irreplaceable. A bard can potentially take place of either but to a lesser extent. A cleric is the best bang for buck on healer mana, with the sole exception of Torporing shamans, and Aego and Rez are very group friendly. The better your tank the more bang you get per HP healed and the less other members are hit.
More classes need to be able to provide crucial group functions. With 15 classes in the game, it seems bizarre that three of them are otherwise essential to the "best" group.
I fully realize this is an age old problem in everquest but it is magnified on WR for the following reasons :
1.) A lot of alternative strategies, many of which were too powerful before, are entirely unusable in the end game xp.
2.) The server population is low, forcing most groups to be somewhat patchwork. In response, many would rather just duo or trio instead of making "imperfect" 6 man group.
3.) There are little to no high end xp spots that do not require FD pulling or a strong CCer (Enc or bard*)
4.) The basic job description of 6 classes is DPS. They each have small side roles and cavats.. they should perhaps gain a single crucial group ability.**
* WE NEED MORE BARDS
** I am going to go make a post about what I believe these should be and how they can be altered.
Another big WR problem : 1/5 of the raid roster on both guilds are clerics. But Wiz is already thinking on this one
Xping with a (tank, cleric, slower, enc, DPS, swingman) group is so dramatically faster than anything else its often not worth it otherwise.
The basic problem is mana management or more specifically healer mana management. The more you can get out of your healers mana pool, the more efficient your entire group is. An enchanter provides a significant DPS boost to any melees, CCs, and has KEI, AND can slow if need be. A shaman further increases the DPS to any melees and vastly improves the efficiency of healer mana (including his own). These positions are essentially irreplaceable. A bard can potentially take place of either but to a lesser extent. A cleric is the best bang for buck on healer mana, with the sole exception of Torporing shamans, and Aego and Rez are very group friendly. The better your tank the more bang you get per HP healed and the less other members are hit.
More classes need to be able to provide crucial group functions. With 15 classes in the game, it seems bizarre that three of them are otherwise essential to the "best" group.
I fully realize this is an age old problem in everquest but it is magnified on WR for the following reasons :
1.) A lot of alternative strategies, many of which were too powerful before, are entirely unusable in the end game xp.
2.) The server population is low, forcing most groups to be somewhat patchwork. In response, many would rather just duo or trio instead of making "imperfect" 6 man group.
3.) There are little to no high end xp spots that do not require FD pulling or a strong CCer (Enc or bard*)
4.) The basic job description of 6 classes is DPS. They each have small side roles and cavats.. they should perhaps gain a single crucial group ability.**
* WE NEED MORE BARDS
** I am going to go make a post about what I believe these should be and how they can be altered.
Another big WR problem : 1/5 of the raid roster on both guilds are clerics. But Wiz is already thinking on this one
At any point of time except the really really low hours I can make a 6-person group for say, Eldenal's Mansion, as long as I take the initiative to do so and don't just sit LFG and hope an existing group picks me up. And not just with Coltaine or Icarium, I can do it with Corlo and Sormo too (much less desired classes).
I almost always try to create an eldenals group when i am on. The problem i have during those attempts is that: A) there is no cleric willing/ungrouped/online or B) there is no Tank willing/ungrouped/online.
Number one problem I've had with Winter's Roar is that as a new, low level... well, basically, things suck. A lot.
It's almost impossible to find a group, and once I do the exp is so slow it's not even worth my time (yay, I went from level 12 to 13 in a few hours of playing.... that's rewarding!).
My only suggestion would be to up the amount of exp attained from lower level monsters (level 1 - 45ish), or lower the amount of exp needed to get those levels (thus keeping the exp debt the same).
It's almost impossible to find a group, and once I do the exp is so slow it's not even worth my time (yay, I went from level 12 to 13 in a few hours of playing.... that's rewarding!).
My only suggestion would be to up the amount of exp attained from lower level monsters (level 1 - 45ish), or lower the amount of exp needed to get those levels (thus keeping the exp debt the same).
..
no bs there, its really that hard for a lot of people, you were an enchanter and didn't notice =p
I have exped about 4 hours into level 42 and I am half way throug hit, that alone is enough to make me quit playing. It is too much of a timesink for me, I thought I had it in me to make it to the high end just so I could raid, but I don't.
no bs there, its really that hard for a lot of people, you were an enchanter and didn't notice =p
I have exped about 4 hours into level 42 and I am half way throug hit, that alone is enough to make me quit playing. It is too much of a timesink for me, I thought I had it in me to make it to the high end just so I could raid, but I don't.
Trig said:
When there are no low-level healers online and you have to use bandages (which cost a lot to lower levels) to get a slightly less excruciating downtime...
When I hop online there are usually 1, maybe 2, healers between levels 5 and 25. And those are usually alts being PLed up.
Equinoux82
Dalayan Beginner
I hate to agree, but it's true. I'm a level 14 Ranger now and it's taking long because there's (usually) nobody to group with and when there is someone to group with...they don't want to. Very discouraging...along with the frequent link deaths upon zoning.
Melwin said:The real problem is the lack of initiative.
At any point of time except the really really low hours I can make a 6-person group for say, Eldenal's Mansion, as long as I take the initiative to do so and don't just sit LFG and hope an existing group picks me up. And not just with Coltaine or Icarium, I can do it with Corlo and Sormo too (much less desired classes).
*checks wanelo*
They're not mid-level. I accept (or at least assume) that the higher level game requires a good group. My comment was related to the 20s/30s/40s area which seems to generate the most complaints about how there's 'never a group around.'
Oh, and to add a couple of things in:
4. Lower level raids. One of the few things I remember from talking to Batty/Wiz a year or so ago was about raid content < 50. Nothing uber, but it would certainly break up the boredom and you could use any one of the mostly-unused outdor zones. Heck, a snow griffon would be a raid for a group of level 10-20s.
5. Quests item difficulty adjustment. The kobold paw/batskin quest as well as the cleric quests and... let's just say the low level quests are very good. As is now, the further you go up in levels the good quests (haven't seen the evils yet) seem to become like this:
'hail an_npc_who_doesn't_look_like_anything_special_01'
'Find this item. Which is a rare drop. Off of a wandering mob. I won't tell you the zone. Oh, and you need two others from much more dangerous zones. I won't hint at those either. In fact, just minimize eq right now and see if the guide site has it. If not, ooc it. If no one knows, you're screwed. The end reward is something much, much worse than anything you'll have equipped by the time you finish this. Give it to your twink.'
Yes, no one wants a wizard or enchanter in their group... :? :? :?Melwin said:The real problem is the lack of initiative.
At any point of time except the really really low hours I can make a 6-person group for say, Eldenal's Mansion, as long as I take the initiative to do so and don't just sit LFG and hope an existing group picks me up. And not just with Coltaine or Icarium, I can do it with Corlo and Sormo too (much less desired classes).
When I play alts, I have no problem finding groups. I just send them at tell, asking if they want to start a group, and they usually reply: "Yes". Note, this is without mentioning that there's a druid PL'ing.
The reason of why there are little healers around, or people cant find groups, it's plain simple: there are few people in the server. This leads to: people not being able to join many groups. This leads to: people saying "screw groups! I'll dual client/2 box!". This leads to: people not finding healers, because those healers are dcing/p'led. Which finally leads to: people not finding groups. It's like a paradox
Homogenn said:
If you are Dcing, would you look for groups, unless you are tired of playing alone? Would you solo a cleric or a druid, lfg endlessly? That's my point, how many people really have the guts to play as a MAIN a main healer? That's the idea, not the fact that people who DC also group with other people, but they dont have the need, because, duh, they are dcing.
And yeah, if there are few people in the server (each day increasing, thankfully), how are you going to have HIGH chances of getting groups? If there are 20 guys online, for eg., and 10 of them are in great divide, zone, 5 are in warrens, and the other 5 are in Cmalath, how are you supposed to find a group if you are in netherbian lair? I hope you get it now.
Yes, I would be looking for group if I was dc'ing a cleric and druid, as I wrote.
I don't get that, you're saying that they don't NEED to group with other players because they DC but that they do it? Isn't that the opposite of what you were saying before?
You could run to GD, it's only 2 zones away, you know. But what I mean is that the fewer lower level people there is, the greater the chance is that you're able to form one group, instead if there was seven people, one would have to sit out. But I think what you're saying is that the grouping is hard due to the low population, in general, and yes this is true, but there's really nothing to do about it.
Homogenn, the point isn't that if YOU were DCing that YOU would pick up others to join your group.
The fact is that most DCing people, that I've met, do not do this. The fact of the matter is that it's usually safer, and thus better, exp to DC than it is to join a group (you never know if they're going to suck a whole asston, like some of the people I've grouped with... wizards not knowing how to cast spells, warriors not knowing what taunt does, and neither listening, etc.).
So, where does that leave us people who think DCing is boring (if I wanted to play with myself I'd look up porn), yet can't find a viable group during the small amount of time we stay on (if I don't find a group in half an hour I'll log off and play something that's worth my time)?
The only result I see from this is that the top tier community is going to slowly atrophy, due to the fact that true newbies are left in the cold while they PL their own up, and DC to their hearts content. If that's the point of this server, then so be it, but I doubt that the grandious storyline was created just so GW and Riot can raid NToV, or wherever, again... and again... and again...
The fact is that most DCing people, that I've met, do not do this. The fact of the matter is that it's usually safer, and thus better, exp to DC than it is to join a group (you never know if they're going to suck a whole asston, like some of the people I've grouped with... wizards not knowing how to cast spells, warriors not knowing what taunt does, and neither listening, etc.).
So, where does that leave us people who think DCing is boring (if I wanted to play with myself I'd look up porn), yet can't find a viable group during the small amount of time we stay on (if I don't find a group in half an hour I'll log off and play something that's worth my time)?
The only result I see from this is that the top tier community is going to slowly atrophy, due to the fact that true newbies are left in the cold while they PL their own up, and DC to their hearts content. If that's the point of this server, then so be it, but I doubt that the grandious storyline was created just so GW and Riot can raid NToV, or wherever, again... and again... and again...