The War event: screwing the lower players

[Skorge]

I mean this event is targeted at level 65 characters, so why put it in a zone that has level 30 quests in it (Lake Starfall)? And please, dont give me BS about "oh it's the story" cuz quite frankly I don't want to hear that excuse (heard that too many times playing LoTRO).

Don't try to make up some story excuse like "Oh they only send their strongest enemies" Well I can retaliate with this story response "The npcs that they killed, well they decided to go back and form an army of hundreds of thousands, and they came back and destroyed em." So just dont give me that excuse, please.

Ok my suggestion: If you are going to put this event in a level 30-40 zone, then make the mobs level 30 or 40 so the guys coming here actually have a chance on taking these guys out.

This way everyone gets involved in the War, not just level 65s.

Second suggestion or option would be for the mobs to auto-depop and the zone to reset after 24 hours regardless of attempts made. Really hope you guys give this some thought, because other peple, that arent 65 want to participate in this event in some way and I just provided you with a way you can do that.

Thank you,

Skorge

 

[Allielyn]

I would like see something implemented that helps lower level players get involved. What about a quest npc that will accept supplies (bandages, food/water, medical supplies, potions etc. and for every 1 set that is contributed, the npc can remove 1 instance of event:death fatigue from a player? In return, the lower level players could feel they were contributing, and could get some exp or coin for their efforts.

 

[Raralith]

Second suggestion or option would be for the mobs to auto-depop and the zone to reset after 24 hours regardless of attempts made. Really hope you guys give this some thought, because other peple, that arent 65 want to participate in this event in some way and I just provided you with a way you can do that.

Than why would anyone bother to clear the zone of the invaders if they were to magically leave a mere 24 hours later? If you think Starfall is bad, I am glad you were not bound in Athica when they took over that place. As to having lowbies help, sure but it certainly won't be in battle.

You seem to have a gripe about the "story" screwing you over, and while you huff and puff saying that there is no story, there is. There is lore, timelines, events that go on beyond the world of just "get to level 65 now." The whole upcoming expansion that everyone is excited about is the continuation of the story we have on hand. The whole "rotting plague" and the current attacks on our land keep the story going. The story is not an excuse, it's a part of the game.

 

[iaeolan]

Starfall connects to a 65 zone, so it's not exclusively a 30-40 inconvenience. And honestly, if the mobs were 30-40 then they would be cleared by a solo 65 in an hour. If the mobs were made adept, who the heck would kill them ever? They would be an even greater inconvenience to the level range.

This is such a moot detriment to this, the zone is overtaken for like a day and you can't finish a quest which you do twice EVER and the xp for that level can be supplemented 2 zones over. I guess every event has to cater to every possible player which may be adversely affected by it's implementation.

 

[Icotopl]

I mean this event is targeted at level 65 characters, so why put it in a zone that has level 30 quests in it (Lake Starfall)? And please, dont give me BS about "oh it's the story" cuz quite frankly I don't want to hear that excuse (heard that too many times playing LoTRO).

.....

Thank you,

Skorge

I have no problem with the war or the lore behind it. I don't like the Starfall zone full with mobs that will take me apart for days after the event. But you know what, if that is what happens in this world, I have to live with it. Ill just have to wait a little till I get a chance to get the stuff I want out of that zone.

 

[Thinkmeats]

The zone has been occupied all of two days. While we do plan to have a way for lower-level players to participate, it won't happen for a while, and lower-level players are never ever gonna be able to lbierate zones.

To be blunt: It's war. Shit happens in war. We couldn't have a server-wide continent-wide war without interfering in the day-to-day operation of some zones. This is not only necessary, it's intended.

 

[Ykari07]

I mean this event is targeted at level 65 characters, so why put it in a zone that has level 30 quests in it (Lake Starfall)? And please, dont give me BS about "oh it's the story" cuz quite frankly I don't want to hear that excuse (heard that too many times playing LoTRO).

The reason the Wars take place where they do (Faentharc, NWastes, Cauldron, Starfall, whatever) is because thats where the old Portals were prior to the creation of the MoP. You likely don't know about the old portals as you sound like a new character and that's okay because I was on hiatus during the time when portals were both implemented and later removed and I couldnt' explain them anyway. Kaezul hijacked the portals and uses their locations to drop his soldiers into our backyards. I'm sorry if you don't like the story behind it, but frankly I don't think anyone would appreciate it if they just showed up in any random zone for no reason whatsoever.

Don't try to make up some story excuse like "Oh they only send their strongest enemies" Well I can retaliate with this story response "The npcs that they killed, well they decided to go back and form an army of hundreds of thousands, and they came back and destroyed em." So just dont give me that excuse, please.

What other excuse would you like? Do you think the Artificers have the ability to go form up an 'army of hundreds and thousands' when they can't even muster up the energy to go find their damn artifact pieces themselves? Do you think if there was any sort of army of hundreds and thousands that we couldn't have taken Ikisith by now? It's War. They're not going to send level appropriate people to come combat you like this is some Square-Enix game where the villain for whatever fucking reason sends his weakest soldiers to attack first and only gradually works his way up to the tough guys who would have whupped your ass at level 1 but are sure no trouble now that you've leveled up on the weaker guys. It's WAR. You send everything you've got at the enemy until he's a stain on the ground. Kaezul doesn't play nice. You should have been around when he was using biological warfare and the Darkrot.

Ok my suggestion: If you are going to put this event in a level 30-40 zone, then make the mobs level 30 or 40 so the guys coming here actually have a chance on taking these guys out.

This way everyone gets involved in the War, not just level 65s.

Certainly there is a huge need to involve lower levels in the war, especially since many 65s apparently can't muster the energy to go take back zones like Starfall which are unnecessary for them at best. Hell, I have rarely been so enraged to discover that Faentharc respawned today when we cleared all but 10 or so mobs last night and nobody apparently had the guts to must a single group to spend 15 minutes clearing out the last of the little pricks for us after we wiped at 1 am.

Second suggestion or option would be for the mobs to auto-depop and the zone to reset after 24 hours regardless of attempts made.

How in the world would this help? If nothing else, this would discourage people from doing shit about the War because hey, it'll go away in 24 hours. Kaezul didn't get to be Emperor of all Ikisith by saying "Well gee, they don't seem to be too interested in fighting me. Guess I'll come back some other time."

Honestly, my entire post comes down to this : If you don't like being part of a world with a functioning storyline in which the players have an intergral role, then don't play in it. But frankly, I think it's a fantastic change from very general MMOs in which the people are unimportant bit characters at best and the storyline continues on a planned journey no matter what effort you take.

 

[Monance]

war is bullshit... and stop comparing Athica to Starfall for LOLs Sake

a decent amount of level 65s is BOUND in that zone (cant even bind in Starfall afaik) AND its by far the most popular gate neck destination, so there is a really great incentive to clear that zone. In Starfall theres what? Lots of quests and 1 level 65 zone theres no real incentive to clear that crap. Im 65 and would i even think about liberating starfall to go to cmal? no way.

Too many bugs (like loot corpses disappearing too early) and crap like that keeps 65s from even wanting to do this war crap. I mean if you made it happen like once a month ok, but 2 zones within a week? nobody cares.. i know i dont. If something is obviously bullshit u gotta move on (at least thats what i do) - whoever did the war script: Great Job.

but let it die already
gawsh

 

[Tryfaen]

when i see this argument against the war it reminds me of the guy that cried about 'forced GM events'(dark rot)

I think what Wiz said there should apply to this too.


http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php?topic=14412.0

 

[Ocalen]

The zone has been occupied all of two days. While we do plan to have a way for lower-level players to participate, it won't happen for a while, and lower-level players are never ever gonna be able to lbierate zones.

To be blunt: It's war. Shit happens in war. We couldn't have a server-wide continent-wide war without interfering in the day-to-day operation of some zones. This is not only necessary, it's intended.

This in itself is the problem. People (level 65s) just don't look at this event as an actual War. Let's face it, in an actual War people drop EVERYTHING they are doing and concentrate on the war. Businessmen close up shop and farmers throw down that hoe, they head into battle.

Here the level 65's don't bother with this event. Sure a handful of them might try to go kill a few named mobs, but most of them don't. Mostly because it takes a raiding guild to take these mobs down and more than likely these guys don't need the loot so why bother. Many don't see it as fun and don't bother with it. Some think the rewards aren't worth it.

So the question you need to ask yourself is this: What will make the players come out to Lake Starfall to kill these mobs?

Right now you don't have an answer because they won't. The level 65's have no reason to be in Starfall. They have finished their quests there and want no part of it. The rewards aren't worth it for one, and second people just aren't excited about it.

That was my suggestion to base the War on actual level of the zone content, so level 30's come out. To respond to the person a few above that said 1 level 65 would come along, well that's fine, because the level 65 would not get anything out of it (the loot will be level 30 stuff). Don't make the mobs adept. Either that or like I said despawn the mobs after a time period.

Skorge

 

[Ocalen]

I would like see something implemented that helps lower level players get involved. What about a quest npc that will accept supplies (bandages, food/water, medical supplies, potions etc. and for every 1 set that is contributed, the npc can remove 1 instance of event:death fatigue from a player? In return, the lower level players could feel they were contributing, and could get some exp or coin for their efforts.

This is a nice idea, really because something like that will help us (everyone online in SoD) clear these mobs and get the zones back to normal, and at the same time make even the lowbies feel good because they were a part of something.

 

[Allielyn]

Yeah crying about lower level zones being occupied isn't going to get very far here, but I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE to see more actual viable suggestions as to what can be done to involve lower level players.

 

[Spiritplx]

Currently, all there is for lower level people to do now is to level up and help liberate zones and get loot. I think putting in more clickies/toys to give the 65's an incentive would also be a good idea (I know there are some, and that is why I may help next time if I am not raiding already). I love the fact that people can't get to zone A or zone B for a few days because of the storyline. It is nice to have a break from the same routine we go through everyday. Whether that is to get from one zone to another, or exp'ing in our favorite zones, it is a nice change of pace. You do not lose your corpse on this server when you die, and you don't obtain a debt when you die in the war, so this really isn't even an issue. I don't see how waiting a few days for a quest turn in is any different than waiting a few days for a mob to spawn.

There were a few ideas mentioned previously in other threads about low levels helping, and I really want them to be more involved. Having them be able to buy items with a couple charges of heal, or maybe even a "bomb" (AE spell) like item they can click from a distance to deal some extra damage. Maybe having more people in the raid of level 40 and lower gives a boost to the entire raid force. If people post ideas, and the devs mix and match them, I think they can definitely be made to fit in during the war events.

The war was fun a few times I did it, but it just seems like the same thing over and over. I will have to give it another look, however, because I think Allielyn said TM changed part of the script.

Just do not be discourage because you cannot zone into a zone for a few days. It will be liberated eventually, and if not, that is the price we pay as a server.

 

[csivils]

I know this would be difficult, and most likely not possible.

But City of heroes has a side kick system where a lower level player can be made into a side kick.

* To keep the benefit, they have to stay close to the other player
* The lower level player's effective level is raised to one level below the mentor
* The lower level players abilities are scaled up
* The lower level player's experience is scaled down

There are a lot of mechanics issue that make EQ a different game than CoH, but being able to sidekick lower level people for war events would be SWEET!

Craig

 

[Daelius]

i have a feeling the cliient won't let that happen.

My idea for the lower levels is to help fund defenders. While mostly the players are supposed to come and defend, being able to spawn npcs to fight against kaezulian forces would be great.

This can be done by giving a quest npc supplies, like maybe bandages/likewise stuff to spawn a healing npc (not too powerful), and weapons and such for fighters. There can be a minor xp award as well as coin for these turn-ins. If anyone has an idea to expand upon this, please add. I feel this is a great way for lower level players to help the war effort

 

[Thinkmeats]

:dumb: :dumb: :dumb:

The corpses' rapid decay speed is a direct result of weeping players bitching about the quest lockout timer. When Wiz removed it, it caused the corpses to resume normal decay. Lucky for some, you can still easily loot the nameds you get when clearing a zone, and doing so is certainly profitable for guilds at lower tiers.

Here the level 65's don't bother with this event. Sure a handful of them might try to go kill a few named mobs, but most of them don't. Mostly because it takes a raiding guild to take these mobs down and more than likely these guys don't need the loot so why bother. Many don't see it as fun and don't bother with it. Some think the rewards aren't worth it.

The people who think the rewards aren't worth it either haven't been to a war in a while or aren't smart.

I think putting in more clickies/toys to give the 65's an incentive would also be a good idea (I know there are some, and that is why I may help next time if I am not raiding already).

...

The war was fun a few times I did it, but it just seems like the same thing over and over. I will have to give it another look, however, because I think Allielyn said TM changed part of the script.

I can't really put in any more clickies than there already are, because there already are shitloads of clickies. The part I changed was the named spawn code. Instead of being a flat random chance after each mob dies, it's now a pseudorandom thing that is far more likely to give a reasonable amount of nameds; no more aberrant "500 nameds in 10 seconds" results, and no more "we cleared the whole zone and got 2 nameds" results.

 

[ryutakin]

There is only one true Clicky and it's mine ok


What about if someone level 35 or lower enters a War zone they get banished from the zone as in "A Kaezulian Knight shouts 'Begone weaking! You are not worth my time' "?

Or I don't know if it's codeable.

Perhaps when a lower level charector is in reach of the Kaezulian forces they are "Struck with fear" (this can be a spell for lower levels only) that roots them in place repeatedly if they get near the mobs. Forcing them to go to a different zone.


Well?

 

[Allielyn]

My idea for the lower levels is to help fund defenders. While mostly the players are supposed to come and defend, being able to spawn npcs to fight against kaezulian forces would be great.

This can be done by giving a quest npc supplies, like maybe bandages/likewise stuff to spawn a healing npc (not too powerful), and weapons and such for fighters. There can be a minor xp award as well as coin for these turn-ins. If anyone has an idea to expand upon this, please add. I feel this is a great way for lower level players to help the war effort

Any level 15-45 player completing a quest giving npcs supplies, etc gives a lore no rent clicky summon lvl 60 "pet" (a citizen soldier) for any player (even low ones) that autoaggroes Kaezulian NPCs in the PC's range but not anything else. Would be amazingly awesome if it could be coded without exploitation - though Im not sure that's possible =(.

 

[Daelius]

My idea is depending on how much the quest has been done for supplies, waves of player-aligned NPCs spawn to fight the kaezulian forces. LIke say 10 people do a quest for supplies: at some point a wave of 10 npcs spawns during the invasion fighting for our side

 

[Malleus2]

Here are some of my thoughts on missions/quests lower level characters could be involved in. Several of my suggestions are reliant on quest outcomes being able to effect the part of the script that respawns the Kaezulian forces. If that is not feasable they will of course not work.

Scouting in and around the occupied zone. In zone would be quite tricky but not impossible as I believe some of the mobs see invis. Objectives would need to be placed so that the scout wasnt forced to scout in the middle of a densely spawned area. These would be like the statues quest in CoI where the scout needs to pass a certain loc to satisfy the quest. Variations could include reporting back to the quest giver with troop numbers (number of spawns) at a given location in the zone.

With regards to Starfall as it is a quest heavy zone perhaps a successful scouting could result in a friendly guard detachment spawning near the relevant area that when hailed would assault the Kaezulian forces in that area and clear them or clear a safe path for a brief period so the person wanting to work on their Starfall quest would have a breif window to get it done. Once the time was up the Kaezulian forces would respawn.

Assasinate the advisor. Lower level advisor mobs could be added to the camps out of social agro range or set so they occasionally path out of range such that a clever person could get to them without agroing the other guards in the area. The person receiving the quest would recieve a one charge Kaezulian runner disguise kit (a short duration clicky iksar illusion/invis mostly for flavour due to faction and see invis issues) that would allow them to move about more freely though the area. Once they got to the advisor they could either be made to engage the advisor in normal combat or they could be given a one shot clicky that assasinates said mob. War impact could include slowed respawn or even decreased level of respawning guards due to lack of accurate battlefield information.

Additional involvement for lower level people could come in the form of quests to find and kill level appropriate scout mobs, runners and supply caravans in the zones adjacent to the occupied zone. Successful completion yeilding exp and possibly items from the mobs. To add a feeling that these missions contribute directly to the war effort completing them could add 10 or 15 minutes to the respawn timer in the occupied zone giving the forces working to clear the zone a bigger window of opportunity . Also if increasing the respawn timer dynamically is possible a quest to disrupt the portal could be added where players use a click item (similar to a trap) within a certain distance of the portal disrupting its use for reinforcing. Completing the quest would add 10 minutes to the respawn timer for reinforcements.