The SoD economy

[Korvak]

I am not here to argue really except that robe.
I quit doing tradeskills because it's not worth it anymore, continuing on did me very little good anymore and barely brought in enough to keep working. Early on, it brought in enough to work on the other tradeskills, and be able to pay decent prices to the farmers...
Tradeskills were a service to the other players, but the trade off for the time and money put into it was that I could make my living on it, instead of farming - materials or cash. That just isn't the case anymore.

Spoken like a true tradeskiller . . . right? It depends on what you see tradeskilling to be. Tradeskills are both costly and time consuming. It was said the purpose of charms was a money dump a few posts back. I say that tradeskills are equally so. I don't craft jewelry so that I can sit pretty with my lvl 65 character never to farm again, I doit because its another way to have fun and increase the all around capabilities of my enchanter. Saying that the robe of flowing water is not much of a bargain to the tradeskiller who made it is true. The components are costly and difficult to farm. Not to mention the tradeskiller has to have made it to the upper levels of tailoring.

The robe is much more common an item than it used to be, however there's a lot more tradeskillers who are making it up the ranks which means that the oldschool trademasters no longer the market cornered. Adding plat drops will make it so more can afford the item, and though it might also raise the praise a bit. Soon more people would master the tradeskill and then it's supply and demand. What's the worth of an item when either everyone has one, or you know if you don't like the price wait a week and you'll find a lesser cost.

Regaurdless of which, even with tradeskills becomming less lucrative and players getting less for tradeskill drops I have no qualms with the way things are currently going and see no need for intervention. Noobs are complaining costs are too high, high level players are complaining the prices and costs are dropping. It's nice to know Greed is so adamently at large . . with which the capitalistic nature of SoD society will be well off as is. Kudos to your work in Tradeskilling Griz, though it's a shame if you give it up because it isn't as gold-plated as it used to be.

 

[Allielyn]

The reason that it's selling for 2k is that people can make it for much less than that.

 

[shebearcub]

The reasons I am not working on that stuff anymore isn't really the point for that robe post for me.

The robe compares to begining level raid gear!! It, along with the mantle of the forest, were meant to be the plat sink in tradeskills, attainable but rare alternatives to raiding. It shouldn't be so easily made - and selling for so little

As for me personally there was much more then that in question when I decided to take a break. Look at how old Griz is. I passed over lots of other goals in my obscession with tradeskills. I will get around to finishing with them later - but as far as keeping it up as a service at the cost of my personal goals here - not worth it.

If it was just about making money, I could have bought my obsenely priced millions of plat charm .....if I'd saved my profits. However I now nearly have all of them maxed - or as closely as they are implimented, with only the last handful of points in jewelry and the last hard push of alchemy to go.

Every bit I made I put back into raising another skill
I can't afford to keep stocked in jewelry, tailoring, smithing, and alchemy anymore.

Thinking the tradeskills themselves should be self supporting isn't too gold plated imo, not even talking much of a profit. I just wanted to be able to stay stocked and keep up with things, I'm insulted that anyone would think greed comes into my tradeskilling at all.

 

[Korvak]

I'm insulted that anyone would think greed comes into my tradeskilling at all.

And I always thought the green that wood elves sought where more woodland based. Perchance the glimmer of platinum carries its own appeals to the Ruin Druid That would be of course if you were more RP inclined which SoD is not geared to, now there would be a change worth orchestrating. But that's a discussion for another forumn thread another time. So what if these items are now more attainable, I fail to see how this is really a concern. If tradeskills are for personal developement and you (Griz) are as purine in your own personal goals and undertakings, what does it matter that they're not going for some astronomical pricing?

We're not talking about an item that's going to uber a character to threaten raiding, (in all of its time consuming glory). Like you mentioned the things being sold have the equivelant of low end raid gear. However since it's tradeskilled it's not no-drop therefore can be sold to other characters. Give a twink a mantle of the forrest and robe of flowing water and point and laugh as you stand them up against players who have done any significant time raiding. If its not greed based, then where's the economical issue? Why change things. The other spectrum is pissing and moaning that drops aren't sufficient and merchant selling rates are unfair. I can understand why noobs who can crack there diablo 2 at home and are used to snapping there fingers for god armor might and might get frustrated by a game like SoD. And though I'm razzing you a bit Griz I truely respect your tradeskill accomplishments in the game, as well as your work as a guild leader before you defected to Ruin. To get the high end gear you need to go through the hoops of getting a character up to be attainable by a decent raiding guild. (or waste tons of wipes with a wanna-be guild) Then once in, you have to raid to the guild quota so you can roll on items. Then mixed in with a little luck you might get some decent gear. I don't notice anywhere in there mentioning plat.

So the biggest gear is only attainable via single track, it's not going to the auction channels. So what if other gear diminishes with time? A year ago there were less players and less master tradeskillers. Thus items that are now going for 2-10k less common and harder to get in. Supply and demand. There's a reason a car depreciates when it goes off the lot. I don't see there items dropping to 500p any time soon. So once more despite the majority that would preffer change I remain adament in my stance that things are fine. And since it doesn't effect gameplay significantly I still believe the SoD economy is working as it was designed, it's functional and needs no changes. Viva la Averice on both sides!! Though instead of looking at the glass half empty (like so many in this thread) I preffer to see a half full glass of milk as sufficient to dunk my Oreos.

 

[khador]

judging by your gear i can see why your happy with prices how they are, korvak.

 

[Korvak]

judging by your gear i can see why your happy with prices how they are, korvak.

My mage is completely stripped and without gear for the most part, I mainly created him for the peridots.

 

[Allielyn]

The reason that it's selling for 2k is that people can make it for much less than that.

If it should be sold for more, then the item drops used need to be rarer; or another pp sink item should be incorporated.

I don't think this is really a good example of the rest of the economy. The tradeskill economy suffers from its own unique problems. However, a lot of other items have been mentioned here. No reason to spend an entire thread arguing about ONE item and what it's "worth" when there are about 50 others that could be looked at for devaluation just as well.

 

[Korvak]

I don't think this is really a good example of the rest of the economy. The tradeskill economy suffers from its own unique problems. However, a lot of other items have been mentioned here. No reason to spend an entire thread arguing about ONE item and what it's "worth" when there are about 50 others that could be looked at for devaluation just as well.

I don't think there's any items in particular that given the lime light would change the facts about how the economy runs in SoD. I brought up the robe due to familiarity. The mantle of he forrest was brought up by Griz. If there's an item you think diserves special attention feel free to make your case. We're talking about tradeskill items what does it matter if we're taking about robes of flowing water vs. Shadow Silk gear.

.. i am talking items ALL AROUND are going down in price.. EVERYONE is selling them lower.. not just 1-2.. i dont know how much time you spend trading, but i do a good bit myself. and i watch prices a lot. and i know the generals pcs on a large range of items. the pcs are going down. heck.. kedge hood was 500 pretty easy before.. now they go for 300.. of course i realize thats not quite half. but i do not know just how firm these people are on 300... the current auctioned price for them is 300 lately. muck covered clogs... use to be 3k not long ago.. im seeing em at 1500.....

I would note that Khador brought in other items of concerns a few posts back. So I fail to see this as being a one item show

 

[Allielyn]

The last 14 posts or so have been a one item show.

 

[Korvak]

The last 14 posts or so have been a one item show.

Then by all means give another item to use in it's place, I could care less and would like to be accomodating to those who believe in equal oppurtunity item showcasing. Oooh, ooh let's talk about 20% weight reduction bags and how if the GM's modified there rating to 41.3% weight redution noobs could carry more bat wings increasing the amount of levitation gamewide. Thus taking 6% off total transit allowing quicker farming runs.

 

[JoeMeyer]

Then by all means give another item to use in it's place, I could care less and would like to be accomodating to those who believe in equal oppurtunity item showcasing. Oooh, ooh let's talk about 20% weight reduction bags and how if the GM's modified there rating to 41.3% weight redution noobs could carry more bat wings increasing the amount of levitation gamewide. Thus taking 6% off total transit allowing quicker farming runs.

Being honest, your post was just as useless as his/her was.

It seems like there are MANY different problems concerning SoD's current economy. Each problem has many different facets as well. Maybe it would be better for a moderator/other(s) to make other posts with the more specific problem than just one big, broad one?

 

[Korvak]

Being honest, your post was just as useless as his/her was.

It seems like there are MANY different problems concerning SoD's current economy. Each problem has many different facets as well. Maybe it would be better for a moderator/other(s) to make other posts with the more specific problem than just one big, broad one?

I continue to argue that there aren't problems of significance with the current economy. Thus I see no reason to take this outside of the current thread e3specially with the vast amount of imput already. What's the matter Joe intimidated by 11 pages of random opinions? lol Perhaps the solution is Clip notes for the SoD economy forumn as it stands. And for the record, how much do you really think I put my heart and sole talking about 20% weight reduction bags? Gotta love SoD forumns where all posts are created equal.

 

[Allielyn]

I've played for about a year now and have noticed very little difference in the pricing of items moving drastically in one way or another. . . .

Sure Tradeskilling is costly, but I'd preffer the challenge than lowering the costs to make it more accessable for lower characters. Simularly, the cost of items gives a wide range which caters itself to the various lvls. . . . . There are some things in SoD that if you want your character to have it's going to take time and gameplay. If you're playing a class that doesn't farm well or is gear dependant perhaps your should have taken that into consideration before lvl 40.

I say the economic structure in both auctioned items and merchant purchasing are sound. If high level guilds weren't able to stand head and shoulders over other players due to raid drops. then the need to gather and facilitate high end raids, what would be the point other than social ties. Especially since PVP is little more than a whisper in the background of gameplay.

While I agree with some of your points (having your cake and eating it too), I have to disagree with your analysis that the economy has been perfectly stable. Do you really disagree that item prices have been dropping, or do you disagree that it's a problem? Because if it's the former, I think we have proof that you're wrong. If it's the latter, I'd like further explanation.

 

[JoeMeyer]

I continue to argue that there aren't problems of significance with the current economy. Thus I see no reason to take this outside of the current thread e3specially with the vast amount of imput already. What's the matter Joe intimidated by 11 pages of random opinions? lol Perhaps the solution is Clip notes for the SoD economy forumn as it stands. And for the record, how much do you really think I put my heart and sole talking about 20% weight reduction bags? Gotta love SoD forumns where all posts are created equal.

I really can't make sense of most of your posts, to be honest.

Why aren't there problems with the economy?

 

[Korvak]

Why aren't there problems with the economy?

The prices of yester year are come and gone, the prices at the moment (IMO) are moderately priced. I base this moderation one simple fact. Playing as an ENC and a MAG, and with friends who play SK, ROG, CLR and NEC (All circa 60 or higher). None of us have ever been hampered by our gear. The game itself and its economy does not stop a player in it's tracks for not having raid gear. With AA's and moderate gear being sold for 2-10k I can get what I need to continue to progress.

I beleive that this forumn showcases two seperate extremes in wanting to change the economy. Granted there are different off shoots from the two catagories, so note this is a generalization.

THE HAVES

The High LVL players with clout and substantial time spent in SoD, who point back to old pricing and the good old days. These players remember when tradeskill items actually sold for a price worth farming and how difficult it was to aquire items listed variously listed in previous posts. These players think that the price drop of tradeskill items is rediculous. After spending months in tradeskill to master it, the benefits of the mastery isn't as lucrative as it ued to be.

THE HAVE-NOTS

As previous posts in this forum would note, lvl 60 and lower players complain that plat is too hard to farm, and that the game should be tailored for better drops and merchant buyback. SoD farming is showcased as to ardous a task and time consuming. These players see no problem with the current pricing due to the fact they see farming 2k as an unreasonable length of time, why raise the prices to match a time when they hadn't even heard of the game?

I as a player fall somewhere in between. I have no problems with the price drops, and as I've noted in previous posts I don't think the rice drop effects gameplay significantly. However I'm content for farming for months to pay for an 10k item. I don't want a handout or an added amount plat. I don't argue that prices and the economic dynamics of the game has changed. Most to be accredited to the growing population on SoD. However I do not see the current way of life as problematic.

I beleive that both the HAVES and the HAVE-NOTs have one thing in common. Greed. Both sides want SoD to be tailored to thier benefit. Financially its easier than the founding fathers' first gaming experiance. That's part of the growth and the developement of the game. Have I benefitted from lower prices, of course. So would anyone who plays in the current economy. However farming all day with my character outputs 1k. A 10k item then takes me 10 full days a week and a half of solid farming. Equating to a week and a half of solid killing, not taking into account if I get competition. I see this as a substantial investment. And what do I get at the end of the tunnel a IV or V item. Nothing uber . . . nothing that can match a seasoned Ruin or Forsaken guildy. This isn't Live and I don't see dumping a ton more plat in the game as a benefitial step. Adding more plat to the game would cause inflation but it would be funny money. To raise the prices of tradeshills the GMs could simply make the key items drop less, supply and demand. But why alienate new tradeskillers by not allowing hem to compete with the current masters.

I'm content with things as is. By choice I remain outside of guilds doing my own thing be it AA's, tradeskilling or saving for a peice of armor. The game for me and my friends is challenging enough to keep it fun, but its not unattainable to play the game and build a decent character without having a ton of plat at every waking moment. I say the economy is fine, healthy and does not need change because in the end a few k of plat isn't going to make or break me. Though seemingly alone in my stance in this forumn, I have not seen an argument that effects the gameplay of anyone I play with. Along these lines I don't believe our time spent has been a cakewalk, merely the end has justufued the means. I don't think we should tailor the gameplay to meet the SoD elite. Likewise I don't believe we should go out of our way to cater to new players who don't care to invest the time and gameplay needed to build up a character. As long as the HAVEs nd HAVE NOTs want the economy tweaked it means (IMO) that the middle ground should be happy. It's when the economy makes one extreme content that things will be out of whack.

For those who read this whole post . . my apologies . . I think you're now 3% more suceptable to carple tunnel.

 

[khador]

My mage is completely stripped and without gear for the most part, I mainly created him for the peridots.

Vlosdisto - 65 enchanter. wearing the same robe you state is perfectly fine being priced as is was more what i was looking at.

i have listed atleast 10 items in this thread that have dropped in the last few weeks... as i mentioned to syalara who picked just the robe to mention, talk about the others as well.. yea the robes not the best example, the components need to be made harder to get.

my arguement is not because im greedy and want stuff.. im asking for either nerfs on drops or upped merchant pricings(balanced) so that highers are selling them to vendors as well.. thus there is not a surplus and we are getting items out of circulation.. for example. the stiff white wool sash is priced well by merchants.. its value imo is 100-150.. you can sell for like 75 to a merchant. it works good as impatient people will pawn it to merchants.. and they are not flooding the market... if the buy value was like 25-30... the item would trade at 50p... which is horrible for the item imo. the bloody cloak of offering is also dropping in price.. was pretty solid at 1k.. but now ive seen em at 500. also seen emaw cloak at 500...

 

[Danku]

Is the staff supposed to monitor each time the player paid price changes and tweak NPC prices constantly? They have reasons for setting them where they are surely.

 

[JoeMeyer]

Korvak, to me, you just proved yourself that there is a problem with the economy.

High level players complain that prices are too low.
Low levels complain that item/money drops are too low and its hard to get money.

 

[khador]

Is the staff supposed to monitor each time the player paid price changes and tweak NPC prices constantly? They have reasons for setting them where they are surely.

please try and use some intelligence when posting... create a low price for items.. not a pc.. merchants are there to be the way to easily sell it.. not to just be like o hey we will pay the average price.... the merchants are given an amount they pay.. and if players decide they dont care to aim for more than merchants they will pawn them.. killing the surplus of items. as stated before, i do not expect these prices to be the pc but instead lower.. they shouldnt offer the same.. they should be an option.. for example... an item like giant filth staff whatever from plaguefang could be 275-300 from a merchant... the average pc lately has been around 500. something like blazing crown could be 600.. kedge rimmed hood could be 250.. these are just spitball numbers and examples... these numbers wont be updated daily or weekly or even monthly they will be there to hold a minimum value on items..

 

[Korvak]

Korvak, to me, you just proved yourself that there is a problem with the economy.

High level players complain that prices are too low.
Low levels complain that item/money drops are too low and its hard to get money.

Both are different problems on either end of the spectrum. Low level players want the bar dropped to make life easier for them. While high lvl players want the cost of items to raise to make more money from them. In case you mised my first and main point. Neither of these issues significantly effects the ability to play SoD. Which I use as the measurement of the economies health.

Bringing up item costs is will make the lower level players unhappy. And adding high plat returns and moderating tradeskill drops will just add inflation. Though this would artificially bring up prices the value of the plat would diminish.

As to Vlos having a Robe of Flowing water. Yes he does have one and it took me over three months of trying to get my hands on the components (and quite a few party wipes) before I finally opted to buy it. However when I first was looking for the cloak it wasn't as mass spammed in the auction world as it is now. I don't see how this effects my argument. Since I already own one it's not like I have any interest in getting a second.

Just because players gripe doesn't mean the economy is defunct.