rapidghost
Dalayan Beginner
Wiz said:
JoeMeyer said:
I appologize.
The SoD economy
- Thread starter Danku
- Start date
I appologize.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
Danku said:
That isnt a bad idea, like market updates so to speak where ongoing trends in the economy could be spotted, discussed, and adjusted before things spin into worse conditions (either inflation or deflation). An economy after all doesn't take care of itself.
Kirin Folken
Dalayan Elder
Money is definitly tight at lower levels.. heck even into the upper 30s money is tight.
I am not sure if upping lower level Cash drops would be the answer. Money is tight because of trying ot get upgrades, most of the zones dont seem to have upgrades for the level of toons it takes to hunt there.
Other then a few odd items on my toons I am not wearing anything I got myself. Each item was bought from a higher level player. More normal gear upgrades throw Quests and normal xping I think might help the lower level toons more then cash drops.
Jewerly is a big one here.. other then Rat Claw earrings and a Rat Tooth earing I have not seen a single earing drop for any class out of the zones I have been in, in about 40 levels! (which has been many different zones)
Rings are right up there.. the only reason I even have a ring is from doing the newport quest . Otherwise both earing and Rings slots would still be empty.
Prehaps if some extra low level gear is added to zones, it would help the Lack of cash lower levels feel as they will need less of there cash for the most basics of upgrades. They can then save there cash more, and possibly buy these items the higher level seem to think low levels have money for.
Just a thought..
I am not sure if upping lower level Cash drops would be the answer. Money is tight because of trying ot get upgrades, most of the zones dont seem to have upgrades for the level of toons it takes to hunt there.
Other then a few odd items on my toons I am not wearing anything I got myself. Each item was bought from a higher level player. More normal gear upgrades throw Quests and normal xping I think might help the lower level toons more then cash drops.
Jewerly is a big one here.. other then Rat Claw earrings and a Rat Tooth earing I have not seen a single earing drop for any class out of the zones I have been in, in about 40 levels! (which has been many different zones)
Rings are right up there.. the only reason I even have a ring is from doing the newport quest . Otherwise both earing and Rings slots would still be empty.
Prehaps if some extra low level gear is added to zones, it would help the Lack of cash lower levels feel as they will need less of there cash for the most basics of upgrades. They can then save there cash more, and possibly buy these items the higher level seem to think low levels have money for.
Just a thought..
JoeMeyer
Dalayan Beginner
I agree. I'm L32 and everything that I'm wearing has been purchased from a higher level character.
This is my suggestion:
Up the money a *little* bit more in the lower level zones,
AND...
actually make decent gear drop from creatures L1 - 30.
Yeah, adepts are nice - but they aren't always around when you need them, or not enough
players are on.
The best item I have looted from a mob has been the silver plated breast plate in Shrouded isle..
which isn't even that good anyways.
Just my 2 cp.
This is my suggestion:
Up the money a *little* bit more in the lower level zones,
AND...
actually make decent gear drop from creatures L1 - 30.
Yeah, adepts are nice - but they aren't always around when you need them, or not enough
players are on.
The best item I have looted from a mob has been the silver plated breast plate in Shrouded isle..
which isn't even that good anyways.
Just my 2 cp.
rapidghost
Dalayan Beginner
vistachiri said:
Google "Invisible Hand" + Economy to see the error of your train of thought.
The only difference between "real" economies and the economy on SoD is that people continually consume or otherwise degrade the value of that which they purchase, wether that be food eaten or a car depreciating. In SoD this isn't true, you can use tboots all you like and they never disapear. Point is, after the market is saturated of an item, it will depreciate the value of the item. So the item gets vendored instead right? Maybe, but the truth of the matter is in the end, the economy will always stay at what the general population can afford, otherwise no-body would buy anything, because the prices were far too high, and everything would get sold to a vendor. (In case you didn't know, most newbs can out-buy a vendor price by a large margin)
So there are a few possibilities here, either A. Item is saturated in market, and vendor buys for more than noob can afford/wants to pay (Don't see a problem with this) B. Item is so rare and wanted it can be sold for much more (Don't see a problem with this either)
Obtaining this item for a typical new character will be difficult, because he is weak money-wise and weak level-wise. So he can A. Increase his level and raid the item himself B. Work really hard farming / getting XP and buy it once he has enough money. The level of difficulty for this newb is not unbalanced in any way, as it still took another higher-level character just as long (likely longer) to level his character up to obtain the item, than it would take the newb to go from level 1 and save all his money up to purchase that 1 item. I'd say the Newb has it easy, because now he can level up with the uber item that the orriginal high level character likely didn't have. Just because you have a lvl 30-something that can't buy that lvl 60-something item doesn't mean the economy is screwed up, it just means that your not level 60ish yet. If you feel totaly broke, its because you chose to be that way. If you absolutely can't get enough decent gear to level up, then that just means you aren't fit to play that class, because someone has already proven it's possible, and they didn't have any higher level players to purchase nice gear from.
As you can see, despite how unbalanced you think the economy is, it's actually never unbalanced untill the noob starts getting ripped off because he bought something he thought was worth what he payed, when the going rate for that item is much less. My final point should be clear, nobody ever pays for anything unless they feel that it is worth it to fork over the cash for the item, the act of paying for the item says, " I feel this item is worth x plat to my character ".
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
rapidghost said:
If an economy could in fact in each and every situation take care of itself by individuals acting in their own best interests (which they do not always do, one of the larger problems with it), then quite simply there would be 0 need for economic analysis, market controls etc.
Thing is, those do exist hi2u http://www.bea.gov/
The market would simply fix itself. To a point yes, the theory is valid, and has influenced a great deal of economic theory since, but it is certainly not a blanket.
Also what the hell does pretty much anything you said, have to do with anything I said. There's also more differences between "real" economic systems and the economy here. For one, there's a hell of alot more margin for error in predicting absolutely anything, lower population more outliers. There's quite a few more too, but they're so absolutely glaringly obvious I really don't particularly feel like pointing them out. Also I feel particular irony in the fact that while you believe that a balance discussion thread is not needed, you do feel it necessary to post in here at the same time and discuss economic trends.
Kirin Folken
Dalayan Elder
Allielyn said:
Until I hit level 39/38 I was still wearing soft leather, chainmail, platemail.. heck until level 30 I still had Rat Claw earrings.
I hardly call AC 1 +4 vs PR 30th level gear. I would still not have great gear if I hadn't tryed some very very risky tactics (killing RED hill gaints for example, and I dont mean with a group).
It has only been the last 2-3 levels I have seen any kind of PP drop that I could even use to start banking up. I currently have like 30pp between 2 characters. My gear I think might be above averge.. but only because of when I started SoD. I use to do a lot of vendor dives (picking up high level gear that High level people just vended because it was worthless to them and didn't sell for anything.) I come back in 2.0 and a lot of that "worthless Gear" Suddenly have VERY HIGH vendor value, which made me a killing. Imagine my surpise when a 4pp Belt, now sold back to the vendor for 68pp!!
Current new low level character are not going to have this option.
Money should be tight for lower levels where there realy ins't such a thing as a cash farm. However there currently is a big lack of item upgrades for lower levels, that can be quested or grouped for.
Again.. I would like to see..
Increase amount of lower level item drops (upgrades), Money wise I think lower levels are fine. If anyone fears possible camping of lower end items, you could simply add a lot of No Drop item upgrades.
Just my 2 cp.
JoeMeyer
Dalayan Beginner
Kirin Folken said:
Yep. Sounds about right.
I'll second this point..
Create more loot for lower end zones. I remember playing WoW and at L10, every couple of kills I'd get
something cool, say, a short sword that was alittle faster and hit a little harder, and had some stats. This kept
me playing the game until it turned into a grind..
My point -
Its fun whenever you loot a creature you just killed and you find a good loot in it. From my L1 - L32, I've experienced that
feeling 4 times. Not to mention I couldn't wear 2 of the 'cool' items I looted either.
So - restating what Kirin said - make more loot. If its necessary, bring up the loot alittle.
Blessings!
Allielyn
*Pony*
If you're wearing lots of droppables that you bought from higher level characters, it wouldn't make sense for you to get upgrades from the things you kill - until you pass up the higher level characters that sold you the gear. (Unless that is, you're killing Adepts and simple Tmaps)
rapidghost
Dalayan Beginner
Kirin Folken said:
Despite what you would call it, lvl 30 or no, its what your wearing and your level 30. Might not be the best peice of gear but hey, I've seen lvl 65's with worse. Just because you want better gear doesn't mean that we should "fix" the economy just for you. The same goes for Vistachiri.
And btw Vistachiri, you might feel that just because it's hard to "predict" the economy, means that its unbalanced, but then there again you'd be wrong. Fact is, there is x ammount of plat in the game at any given time - which means that even though you think the uber item should be sold for less than what people are paying, everyone who bought it disagrees with you. That should have been more than glaringly obvious but you still seem to miss that.
And what does any of what I said have anything to do with your post? Well, if I am not mistaken it 1. Makes you look like an idiot for complaining about your poorness and blaming it on the economy. 2. Makes very valid points in stating that the economy is not f'd up in any way, and is exactly as it should be.
And why to I keep posting here? Weeeeeeellll, if you'd happen to read up in the topic you'd see i've already opted to trash the topic once, as it's simply turning into a "woe is me I'm so poor" fest because nobody wants to work as hard as their predicessors. Didn't think I'd have to spell it out to you, but the reason I keep posting here is so that perhaps just maybe someone will read the entire forum before posting and maybe, just maybe they'll see my post and go, "Gee, i think he's right I guess I'll just do what everyone else does and level up some more instead of writing the same thing the last guy said."
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
rapidghost said:
1. Did I ever state in my post, y'know yesterday, that the economy was unbalanced now? No. Learn 2 read. I simply said that having an ongoing discussion thread would help eliminate such problems as they arise. To not do so and simply ignore problems, or to not have a b&d thread and simply confine it to the many threads and diversions of other threads that will crop up in other areas when problems do happen, would be dumb :toot:
2. Considering I rarely deign to sell anything, and really haven't ever complained about "poorness" as quite frankly having to never spend money on a charm. I'm quite set kthx.
3. If the economy was not f'ed up. I would suggest you start at the very beginning of this thread. And y'know read. Then see that in fact changes were made. Probably as a direct result of this thread and the others that the aforementioned discussion crept into. If such problems did exist, which is of course a given, as changes were made. Your original post mentions invisible hand theory, which I clearly pointed out, was NOT the be all and end all thread in economics.
If you reaaaally want to make any salient points whatsoever first of all I'd start by taking your point of view, and going over it, supporting it in light of the reductions in plat drops at all levels, which was one of the reasons for this thread in the first place, then you may want to take into account the recent raises, and factor exactly what effects if any you think this might have, then factor in the economy with regards to tradeskills, mostly worthless drops from lower named (meaning either twink hard, or level with no gear as the gear appropriate for your level would have next to no effect).
There's also of course differences in the economic system as economies, y'know rely on steady growth, which was another factor of the problem, and other things as well. Tbh I really would doubt very highly that I, since I've been contributing positively to this particular thread since it's inception, would look like an idiot in it. Of course I haven't been whining about the thread even existing.
just want to offer a suggerstion, related to the topic, there is alot of no drop gear that drops daily and collects dust in the bank for some. I suggest gear with teh no drop tag could be sold to a merchant, even if it is for a small amount of plat, and then this gear the merchant will recognize it has the no drop tag and will not sell it back to players, it will just be gone. that may bring some cash in... just a suggestion.
JoeMeyer
Dalayan Beginner
In my opinion, you shouldn't be L30+ to have decent gear. Look at D2, WoW, or any other games. Whenever you go out to mash stuff up, you ALWAYS get cool loot. Here, that isn't the case.
Like I said before, I've only had 4 times in my whole lifetime here that I've looted something decent...
thats pathetic to me.
Like I said before, I've only had 4 times in my whole lifetime here that I've looted something decent...
thats pathetic to me.