The Ruins of Nagthilian/Neriak

antihelei said:
I had the same thought a while back, but if you actually go into neriak and look at how the buildings are positioned and what not you will quickly realize that it would make the most absolutely frustrating raid/xp zone on the planet. Seriously there are more shitty 2 floor buildings, cramped spaces and annoying doors in Neriak than any other zone, and while it seems like it would be a fun place, it would most certainly turn into a zone that no one likes to go to because of all the triple and quad pulls.
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A would probably be fine, as long as we're not talking about a higher end 65 zone such as firstruins, but more a beginning kedge/mielc type place. Perhaps a boss at the end of A, needed to be killed to progress to b, b being more difficult and so on and so on. Thus rather than dealing with the problem of triple and quad pulls being a problem, triple and quad pulls could be a benefit, with weaker mobs that give less xp making up for quality with quantity and using the zone's weaknesses as a strength.
 
vistachiri said:
A would probably be fine, as long as we're not talking about a higher end 65 zone such as firstruins, but more a beginning kedge/mielc type place. Perhaps a boss at the end of A, needed to be killed to progress to b, b being more difficult and so on and so on. Thus rather than dealing with the problem of triple and quad pulls being a problem, triple and quad pulls could be a benefit, with weaker mobs that give less xp making up for quality with quantity and using the zone's weaknesses as a strength.
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Wouldn't that force the zone to be extremely CC heavy and not give some classes the opportunity to participate because of the way it is designed?
 
antihelei said:
Wouldn't that force the zone to be extremely CC heavy and not give some classes the opportunity to participate because of the way it is designed?
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Then what is Cmal3?

Further, what is Everchill, Highkeep, First Ruins, etc. without CC? No matter where you go, CC is either a must-have or it makes it a lot harder to group.
 
antihelei said:
Wouldn't that force the zone to be extremely CC heavy and not give some classes the opportunity to participate because of the way it is designed?
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Yes and no, is the beginning of mielc cc heavy? Myself and uageru used to wreck the hell out of it with no cc up to the crypt. 3's and 4's quite frequently. Also I'm not exactly talking beefy summoning mobs either. Something akin to dn rats for instance. Hell aisling alone can take 3 or 4 and cc them with mageroot. Could for quite a while too, pretty much when she had 0ish raidgear.

But then nonsummoning mobs? we're talking how many classes get a root? Wiz, Mage, think enchanters do too, not sure, necros, druids, clerics, shamans, paladins, sk's get snares, rangers. Each and everyone one of those classes can cc mobs that don't summon in a ghettoish way. Not very elegant, but it works. Though let me echo jose's earlier point that "3-4 pulls are fine as long as the mobs aren't retarded with retarded abilities like fear and snare and blind and stupid dumb shit like that.". Should whatever boss of the zone have neat abilities, yeah sure, should the regular trash? Not any more than say the projected difficulty. Only when things get ridiculous for low reward do people not want to go to a zone (or when its way far out of the way). Nag being closeby the dw portal shouldnt suffer from the latter, nor I'd think if made just right would definitely not suffer from the former.

Now later on in say the last zone yeah, I'd think you'd want cc because they would be far more difficult than in the first part, at least on vague concept of what I was talking about, but I don't really think there is a higher end xp zone that one doesn't want CC for in the first place. Unless of course the group is ridiculously geared. Firstruins deep? Enchanter plz, Hhk? help me mezzer!, Cmal3? mezzing very handy. Deep kedge, unless you've got prison gear, hi2u mez. It's just the way things run most of the time. Not necessarily more fun to have mez, but its far more safe.

But yeah, essentially I'm not talking a bleeding edge content zone here, dunno maybe people took what I suggested wrong. There are a few places that are excellent already for that. I'm more talking more of an alternative to some of the others. But with a neat progression type feel as one gets in the cmals (nag1, 2 and 3 each needing some sort of token or key to enter the next?). Nag3 yeah that one should be kinda hard. 2 middlish, 1 cake.

Also let me add my support for ban, tentatively of course, I'd still like to see a massive all the way through zone. But who knows whatever that might be, not familiar with most of the old eq zones so I'd draw a blank anyways.
 
I don't see anything wrong with making some zones CC dependent. Why else would you bring a chanter?
 
Mythryn said:
I don't see anything wrong with making some zones CC dependent. Why else would you bring a chanter?
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some definitely but some already are. Though tbh though I don't have all that much experience playing a chanter I generally nerf the living hell out of every mob, with a combo of tash, slow, malo, cripple, and then use the chanter to rune the hell out of the mt, and blast with my mage. Just what I end up doing so far when boxing them, and it's pretty fun.
 
If a zone has thin walkways and "walls" and annoying doors... then a zone can be populated with these things in mind. If it is too schrunched up to put 3 mobs in a room, because 2 would come from upstairs and around the corner, then 1 mob in room, 1 upstairs, and 1 around corner doesn't sound like a bad idea.

yeah, it wouldn't be possible to populate nagthilian with mobs in the exact same spot they were in neriak, but why would you want to?
 
Aaubert said:
If a zone has thin walkways and "walls" and annoying doors... then a zone can be populated with these things in mind. If it is too schrunched up to put 3 mobs in a room, because 2 would come from upstairs and around the corner, then 1 mob in room, 1 upstairs, and 1 around corner doesn't sound like a bad idea.

yeah, it wouldn't be possible to populate nagthilian with mobs in the exact same spot they were in neriak, but why would you want to?
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Exactly, theres always pain in the ass places in every zone. Also fighting many mobs at the same time you can take down is mad fun, like old kingspass ae group fun
 
All you would have to do to make Neriak groupable is make all the trash have a really fast respawn rate, and not have 40 million of them clustered in the same room.

The zone isn't huge (probably the same size as Kaladim A, which is groupable), so if you carefully put mobs in particular places, you wouldn't get the rediculous trains you think you would. Keeping the respawn rate high would make it a lucrative exp zone, and would take pressure off of other zones that are frequented, like Cmal.

As far as mobs go, you could put fire goblins in A (it could be their second stronghold in their war against the imps, Deepfiends in B (As well as Deepmetal Veins), and Sepulcher-skinned mobs in C for the raid zone.

Below is a rough example of Mob placement that wouldn't require extreme CC, but with minor splits from a monk/SK. The red dot could represent the zone boss that you need to kill to get into Neriak B.

Neriak.jpg


I think that if you don't overdo it, Neriak could be a very good exp zone that large enough to accomodate 2 groups.
 
Xardon said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Lore of this zone would prevent any such change/implementation at this time:

http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/forum/index.php?topic=6315.0
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And this is the point where I say "details, details." All of it could be summed up in one line of lore: "So I heard that there was a massive goblin invasion in Nagthilian last night..."

I'm throwing out ideas, none of which I've said "these must be set in stone otherwise the world will end waah." It's why it's a Suggestion.

If you really want to solve the lore problem, have another Bearers of Truth event in which the zone is populated by different creatures. It's not hard to rewrite lore; look what they did with the moon.

I invite you to make suggestions Xardon.
 
Draxx said:
And this is the point where I say "details, details." All of it could be summed up in one line of lore: "So I heard that there was a massive goblin invasion in Nagthilian last night..."

I'm throwing out ideas, none of which I've said "these must be set in stone otherwise the world will end waah." It's why it's a Suggestion.

If you really want to solve the lore problem, have another Bearers of Truth event in which the zone is populated by different creatures. It's not hard to rewrite lore; look what they did with the moon.

I invite you to make suggestions Xardon.
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Perhaps since the last event I was at it was popped by kalak as well as a few other things (kaezulian soldiers etc) it should be popped by stronger ones of those. Would fit I would think.
 
vistachiri said:
Perhaps since the last event I was at it was popped by kalak as well as a few other things (kaezulian soldiers etc) it should be popped by stronger ones of those. Would fit I would think.
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Time to bring back the original 55 damage lifetap procing Kaezulian forged weapons amirite
 
Draxx said:
And this is the point where I say "details, details." All of it could be summed up in one line of lore: "So I heard that there was a massive goblin invasion in Nagthilian last night..."
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And you should know Wiz by now, and something of this magnitude and this zone, I highly doubt that would happen. And if it did I think even some of the Bearers might be a little disappointed.

Draxx said:
I'm throwing out ideas, none of which I've said "these must be set in stone otherwise the world will end waah." It's why it's a Suggestion.
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:psyduck:
I'm pretty sure I never said anything was set in stone, I simply made a statement; and posted a link to some lore in regards to my statement.

Draxx said:
If you really want to solve the lore problem, have another Bearers of Truth event in which the zone is populated by different creatures. It's not hard to rewrite lore; look what they did with the moon.
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Bearers events are held at Wiz's convenience. We don't have set dates or times for these types of events.

Draxx said:
I invite you to make suggestions Xardon.
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I did make a suggestion ... my suggestion is to read the lore link. :)
 
There is a lot of lore infused into the zone that is Nagthilian, and it has already been used at least twice for bearers purposes and rp events in the recent past. I don't know if it is in the plans to convert it into an exp or raid zone, but I would be surprised if it wasn't in the plans to do something with it lore-wise sooner than later.

Re-writing lore was one of Live's biggest mistakes, in my opinion. But then again, I enjoy this game as much for the lore and the roleplaying aspect as I do for the grind and the raid aspect. While some lore on the fringes can take a few tweaks, Nagthilian isn't exactly on the fringes - it's a central component to the lore: including the rise of Baldakos the Betrayer and the birth of the weapon (mists) that in large part enabled Kaezul to take over most of the known world in the not to distant past.

P.S. I second Xardon's suggestion. =)
 
Xardon said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Lore of this zone would prevent any such change/implementation at this time:

http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/forum/index.php?topic=6315.0
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lore should never be a reason to not implement new content. To add stuff to Nag, all it would need is a good explanation. If a Kaezulan Prophet was able to use the dark energy mantained in Nag to bring forth warriors to the zone, i really can't imagine why that would, in any way, be a so call "violation" of the lore.

The problem that I saw in live had a lot more to do with lack of connection to lore, than it did a "rewriting" of the lore. In live, you started out with a few continents, gnomes found a new one, then the little guys found yet another one. Things got topsy turvey when the moon came out of nowhere, and really bad when gods changed their roles (but never really) in PoP. This was all... excuseable, but most people felt the real problem came out with expansions such as LoY and LDoN which had NOTHING to do with the Lore. New heroes were introduced, and they didn't interact with the old Lore at all. GoD and OoW brought out the forces of Discord, from an alternate dimension, and at that point, everyone basically gave up on mantaining any semblance of lore.

Most people here at SoD quit Live before DoDh came out, but this expansion was far superior in terms of Lore. It involved Mayong Mistmoore's rise to godhood, and his minions. Even though there was really no precedent for this, it brought out old stories and neat stuff. the expansion was balls, but the Lore was just fine.



/em reads over all that...

/em refocuses:

The point is, if Lore is a crappy reason to not change current events. Wiz has an excellent imagination, and whoever wrote the story of SoD with him wrote intriguing and exciting story-telling abilities. I'm certain that a well-written, well-scripted story could be told about why there are now monsters in NagA, B, and C.
 
I guess what I was trying to say was this:

I suspect that the current lore has already dictated future plans for Nagthilian. Whether those plans for Nagthilian take place sooner or later, or whether they involve raids or groups, will be discovered when the changes happen.

I would rather see these plans implemented, than to see devs rush to put out another exp/raid/whatever zone merely to please the content hungry masses.
 
Allielyn said:
I guess what I was trying to say was this:

I suspect that the current lore has already dictated future plans for Nagthilian. Whether those plans for Nagthilian take place sooner or later, or whether they involve raids or groups, will be discovered when the changes happen.

I would rather see these plans implemented, than to see devs rush to put out another exp/raid/whatever zone merely to please the content hungry masses.
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QFA. I am in complete accord with Allie. Of course, I'm a lore-hungry fool, rather than just any random content. For me, new lore trumps new content.
 
Allielyn said:
I guess what I was trying to say was this:

I suspect that the current lore has already dictated future plans for Nagthilian. Whether those plans for Nagthilian take place sooner or later, or whether they involve raids or groups, will be discovered when the changes happen.

I would rather see these plans implemented, than to see devs rush to put out another exp/raid/whatever zone merely to please the content hungry masses.
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Agreed. The lore history of the zone is quite significant to Dalaya as a whole.
 
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