THE GRUPO INCIDENT (legitimate discussion)

Waldoff said:
Basically the rule was overturned in this case for public policy reasons. If a character is destroyed past use we will most likely reimburse to take away the incentive of destroying characters.

It is very ironic to see people calling for more blood. The man got a break from his toon, publicly berated and had a revert done that lost him a couple of weeks work on the character.

There will always be extreme situations that deserve an exception to the rule. That is what makes the law human and not just rote. Giving Tao a hard time for this one seems pretty insane to me given the anger that came out of the codification of the pug rules.
Click to expand...

100% fair and reasonable, but the reason people are a bit upset about this still hasn't been addressed.

Most people who play this game understand that it's unfair that someone can level up without doing any work on their own. In-game, we call it "leeching" experience when you sit AFK in a group and contribute nothing, yet you take advantage of the game mechanics to allow you to get experience anyway.

While we all take advantage of this from time to time, most people have a sense of justice which says that we ought to be rewarded for our hard work, and should not be rewarded for not doing any work.

Silo's action in this case took leeching to an extreme: he wanted to gain free experience not just from being AFK in a group, not just from allowing his friends and guildies to play his character, but from having the entire server level up his toon any time he's not using it. By announcing in a public channel his intent to abuse this aspect of SoD's game mechanics, he displayed either an unprecedented arrogance or a complete lack of awareness of the sensibilities of other players. Like many other people, I put a lot of work into my toon, and it seems really unfair to me that someone can potentially get hours of xp into their toon daily without doing ANY work at all.

Nwaij posted earlier that he thinks the only problem someone should have with giving out their account information to anyone and everyone are the consequences to their toon. If that's the case, then the results of this case show that there will be no consequences to giving your account information to anyone and everyone, because that would give people incentive to do bad things to your account.

The offense itself has not even been addressed in all of this, focusing instead on the issue of whether one is responsible for taking advantage of built-in security features. If anyone's "calling for blood," it's only because Silo's action in publicly releasing his account information so people could level his toon up was truly offensive to many people's sense of fair play.
 
eqjenius said:
1. If anyone's "calling for blood," it's only because Silo's action in publicly releasing his account information so people could level his toon up was truly offensive to many people's sense of fair play.
Click to expand...

This. Him pretending like he was doing the server a favor in giving out his info and that he didn't have the option of exping Grupo on his own just added to this.
 
Some of you more concerned with Solo getting free xp than the action that actually occurred. Regardless of the manner in which is information was shared, a character was wiped by someone other than the owner. The act of deleting someone's gear or character, guestlocked or not, is extremely rare and the person who was victimized shouldn't be the one who ends up punished.

Guestlock is a great feature. If you're not concerned with someone stealing your monies or your BOE gears, I, personally, see little reason to use guestlock. No one anticipates someone deleting things off your character because most of the player base, hopefully, are decent people who just want to enjoy the game and progress. Solo sharing his info was mutually beneficial. It doesn't matter if he had selfish intentions and just wanted free xp. The people who played Grupo were benefiting, and Grupo was benefiting by the constant xp.

Judging by some of the reactions from people, I wouldn't be surprised that the person who deleted the gear was someone who was jealous that people were progressing faster than they were able to. I would put the blame on someone like eqjenius, who is offended (lol why?) some how because Grupo gets free xp. Not saying you did it, but eqjenius certainly is showing some motive in that last response.

The 'spirit of the game' shit. What the fuck is that. Who cares how Solo plays this game. It isn't hurting or reducing your ability to play it. So what if he lets other people play his alt to get xp. You can do it. You don't want to do it? Then don't fucking do it. But don't get all offended because someone is 'getting something for nothing,' especially when you're completely unaffected by it and when you could do the same.

This idea of it being 'fair' or not; Solo did nothing against the rules of the game. Just because he was getting an alt faster experience than you could get your main doesn't mean he deserves to have his character stripped.
 
eqjenius said:
100% fair and reasonable, but the reason people are a bit upset about this still hasn't been addressed.

Most people who play this game understand that it's unfair that someone can level up without doing any work on their own. In-game, we call it "leeching" experience when you sit AFK in a group and contribute nothing, yet you take advantage of the game mechanics to allow you to get experience anyway.

While we all take advantage of this from time to time, most people have a sense of justice which says that we ought to be rewarded for our hard work, and should not be rewarded for not doing any work.

Silo's action in this case took leeching to an extreme: he wanted to gain free experience not just from being AFK in a group, not just from allowing his friends and guildies to play his character, but from having the entire server level up his toon any time he's not using it. By announcing in a public channel his intent to abuse this aspect of SoD's game mechanics, he displayed either an unprecedented arrogance or a complete lack of awareness of the sensibilities of other players. Like many other people, I put a lot of work into my toon, and it seems really unfair to me that someone can potentially get hours of xp into their toon daily without doing ANY work at all.

Nwaij posted earlier that he thinks the only problem someone should have with giving out their account information to anyone and everyone are the consequences to their toon. If that's the case, then the results of this case show that there will be no consequences to giving your account information to anyone and everyone, because that would give people incentive to do bad things to your account.

The offense itself has not even been addressed in all of this, focusing instead on the issue of whether one is responsible for taking advantage of built-in security features. If anyone's "calling for blood," it's only because Silo's action in publicly releasing his account information so people could level his toon up was truly offensive to many people's sense of fair play.
Click to expand...

When I reread this I think of a little scenario that will highlight your jealously:

Cindy is 16 and wants a car. Cindy's parents can't afford a car so she has to get a job. Cindy works ALL summer to save up and buy a beater for $1000. Cindy is so proud of her car because of all the hard work she went through to get it and can't wait to show it off at school.

Stacy is 16 and has a car. In fact, Stacy has TWO cars. One's a Mercedes and the other is a Toyota 4Runner (girls love this fucking car, why?). Stacy didn't have to work for her car. Her parents are so fucking loaded they just gave her two.

Now when Cindy sees Stacy rolling around in her car(s) (whichever she chooses to drive, depending on outfits, obviously) she gets jealous!

"Look at Stacy driving around in her Mercedes like she's tough shit. Her parents just GAVE her that car. I had to work ALL summer for mine and it sucks. That's sooooo unfair. Why should she get something for nothing. Hey Paula, lets go slash her tires."

THE END

tl;dr eqjenius you're a jealous 16 year old girl. Get over it.
 
Wulamdar said:
When I reread this I think of a little scenario that will highlight your jealously:

Cindy is 16 and wants a car. Cindy's parents can't afford a car so she has to get a job. Cindy works ALL summer to save up and buy a beater for $1000. Cindy is so proud of her car because of all the hard work she went through to get it and can't wait to show it off at school.

Stacy is 16 and has a car. In fact, Stacy has TWO cars. One's a Mercedes and the other is a Toyota 4Runner (girls love this fucking car, why?). Stacy didn't have to work for her car. Her parents are so fucking loaded they just gave her two.

Now when Cindy sees Stacy rolling around in her car(s) (whichever she chooses to drive, depending on outfits, obviously) she gets jealous!

"Look at Stacy driving around in her Mercedes like she's tough shit. Her parents just GAVE her that car. I had to work ALL summer for mine and it sucks. That's sooooo unfair. Why should she get something for nothing. Hey Paula, lets go slash her tires."

THE END

tl;dr eqjenius you're a jealous 16 year old girl. Get over it.
Click to expand...

You forgot the part where Stacy gave a spare key to everyone in town and then expected her parents to buy her a new one when they totaled it.
 
Well they would. I mean someone totaled her car on purpose because they were jealous of the situation. They're fucking loaded and it makes no difference to them.

The attitude of 'he deserved it' or 'that's what you get' is laced with jealousy. Solo didn't deserve to have his character's gear deleted. He was helping people out, and in the process himself, but none the less A LOT of people were benefiting. If you think his character getting stripped is justified then you have problems. One of which is over little pixels in a computer world played out over the internet.
 
Last edited:
Person A sees Grupo experiencing. They think to their self "Is that Grupo? What the fuck, how many people play that character? Holy shit look at his gear. Isn't that someones alt? Fuck me, 500aas? Almost finished with the first CoP? Man, the real Grupo doesn't even play that character. That's fucked up. Why should the owner of Grupo be able to get so much exp just because his main is in a high guild. What a fucking prick. His alt is progressing and he isn't even doing ANYTHING. GOD THATS UNFAIR. THAT GOES AGAINST THE SPIRIT OF THIS GAME. I HAD TO PUT SO MUCH TIME INTO MY OWN CHARACTER AND I STILL DONT EVEN HAVE HALF THE EXP OF THIS FUCKING ALT. RAWR RAWR RAWR I"M SO MAD."

Person B sees Grupo experiencing. They think to their self "Is that Grupo? Haha look at his gear! Damn that kids got 8k hp already. That's awesome. Look he's almost finished with 1 CoP. Damn, before you know it he'll be working on Ikisith tomes. And Solo hardly plays him. Just gears him up and has other people xp him. That's smart. Grupo is going to be a boss soon."

Person C sees Grupo experiencing. They think to their self "Is that Grupo? Who the fuck is Grupo and why should I care? I'm gonna go do my own thing."

Either you're mad about the situation, you're happy about it, or you don't care.

If you have SIMILAR thoughts to Person A, or any negative thoughts for that matter, about what Grupo is and what he stands for, all that negativity stems from YOU. YOU'RE mad at the situation because you're jealous. You may think 'hey I'm not jealous of Grupo, that's just not fair.' No. Fuck you. That's jealousy. He's doing something you didn't get to do. He's getting exp without doing anything. He's not putting in as much effort as you. You did this, he didn't do this. You you you. YOU have a problem with Grupo because YOU are jealous.

There's nothing wrong with what Grupo is doing. There's no rule against having someone else play your character and he's not cheating. There is no reason to have negative feelings towards him. None. If you're aren't jealous, then why the FUCK DO YOU CARE SO MUCH? Why are you offended his gear got returned? It's not your character that got stripped. The issue doesn't concern you. Move along, play the game. Let it go. Focus on your own character. Don't get mad because someone tier jumps. Don't get mad because someone progresses faster than you. Just worry about yourself, do your own thing, and be happy. It's a fucking game. Have a good time. Don't worry what someone else is doing with their characters. It doesn't concern you.

All negative energy stems from your ego. If you're able to let go of the negativity, and look at the situation for what it is and accept it for what it is, you'll be much happier. Negativity is bad. Be positive. Be happy someone is succeeding. Be happy to log in and play the game. Be happy someone got their gear returned after someone maliciously deleted it.
 
Can we trash this thread before any more essays are written
 
Trash can a thread of people posting full coherent thoughts about a matter that effects alot of people. Yes lets do that.
 
pst for otcho info I am guest locked and have no bag space to begin with due to cool clickies and i am already fucked with every faction so who can hurt me now
 
Draeos said:
Trash can a thread of people posting full coherent thoughts about a matter that effects alot of people. Yes lets do that.
Click to expand...
UNFAIR, JUSTICE, PUNISH, STUPID, GUESTLOCK, EVIL, FREE EXP, JEALOUS
 
Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?
 
Rorne said:
Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?Can't we punish this dude?
Click to expand...
No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!
 
Rorne said:
No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!No! Don't punish this dude!
Click to expand...

I actually read through these two posts to make sure I didn't miss anything.
 
If you're aren't jealous, then why the FUCK DO YOU CARE SO MUCH?
Click to expand...

I'm not jealous. I simply articulated an argument which is apparently still unclear to you.

Have you ever heard of the term "grinding?" It means to intentionally put a lot of effort into acquiring experience for your character, usually by spending hours in dungeon zones killing monsters. When people can match the effort you put into "grinding" with their own "leeching," which requires no effort at all, it reduces the value of your labor. It affects you because it puts you further behind in progression compared to the other characters on the server. Which means you'll have a harder time finding groups. It means that content across the board becomes more trivialized, which in turn affects the game experience itself.

Inflation is a serious issue in real life, and it's a real issue in SoD. It's not jealousy, it's economics. If someone openly flaunts their ability and willingness to print their own currency, what they're saying is that they're willing to devalue the fruits of your labor.
 
there is a difference between afk leeching and allowing others to use grupo. It's not like he forced them to use his tank or anything. As he said it was mutually beneficial, he got free xp, they got a semi-ringer tank to get xp/raid with improving themselves as well.
How many guilds use each others chars for xp? I remember multiple guilds where the tank was whored out to a few people to get him xp because he wasn't very active. I gave my friends my info to use me for dps to get me free exp as well and i had access to their chars to use if i joined a group and needed another tank/healer, it allowed my group start faster (or at all) and i got myself some exp while helping a friend out - which in turn helped me out later on when we'd raid or exp and had a stronger tank.
Really the only difference is that instead of giving it to friends he gave it to a few random people in ooc. He's also hardly the only char to be whored out to half the server for some purpose or another.

Personally I think your argument of inflation hits at buff bots and retired chars still used more so than grupo getting some free exp.

Also Tao makes the worst/best decisions on the server and we love/hate him, how can he be so smart/stupid?
 
Last edited:
neonovas said:
there is a difference between afk leeching and allowing others to use grupo. It's not like he forced them to use his tank or anything. As he said it was mutually beneficial, he got free xp, they got a semi-ringer tank to get xp/raid with improving themselves as well.
Click to expand...

The benefit to Grupo is the same in either case: he puts in no work and risks nothing, in return his character gets progressed.

I said it before and I've heard nothing to sway my opinion on the subject: characters under a guest lock should not receive XP. If you can't even trust someone not to delete all of your gear when using your character, why do you deserve a bunch of free experience the next time you log on?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom