THE GRUPO INCIDENT (legitimate discussion)
- Thread starter Silosobi
- Start date
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
The benefit to Grupo is the same, but other people actually benefit from using Grupo, and plenty of people use(d) him for quests/raids/etc where he got little or no exp. There is always going to be risk in whoring out your toon. Nwaij's suggestions are a perfect example. I already stated stuff has been stolen off the account. There are tons of smaller things people can do to hurt a character and I don't foresee GMs fixing it. The GMs are not saying they will fix every little thing that goes wrong. They are saying that in a case where someone maliciously damages your character to a significant degree, they are going to protect player, to remove power and motive from potential ragequitters/assholes/etc
The reason to allow guestlocked characters to gain exp is that SoD community is more important than "fair" progression. When people box eachother for exp, they both benefit. It serves to promote friendships, communication, etc. You are also never going to create a system with "fair" progression. I've seen people leach dozens of tomes worth of exp, without ever sharing info. Characters will get twinked out in highend raid gear regardless, and that is going to increase how fast they can exp by a huge margin.
I did my grind:http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=solosolki
I don't have the time or desire to do it over again on another character, but because my main is a baller, I can put some cool gear on Grupo and let others use him and its win win.
I don't expect a player to turn away unearned xp if given the opportunity. Neither would I.
However, I would expect the staff who run the game to understand that allowing players to progress without doing any work or taking any risk is bad for the game. It trivializes the content they worked hard to create unnecessarily. It pushes everyone quickly into the high-end game where tiers are crowded while lower level zones go unused. Ultimately, it allows players to get to the top of the mountain, realize they've got nothing left to do, and exit the gaming community faster than they would have otherwise.
(And, oh yeah, they've also left behind their uber geared toon for lower levels to use as a ringer, a further detriment to the game.)
There's a decided lack of objectivity among players in this thread. If I had my way, I'd lose access to the druid I box regularly because that person isn't currently an active player. I also wouldn't be able to gain xp for a guild alt that is guest-locked. These changes would make it more difficult for me to progress as a player, but they would be better for the longevity of the game and the playerbase.
You just must not grasp how much exp there is to get in this game and if i had it my way EXP would be easier to get then it is now.
Edit: Saying this after grinding out 30 tomes all by myself i never whored my info out and i would be A'ok with someone new joining the server and doing there CoP in half the time it took me JUST SAYING
Edit: Saying this after grinding out 30 tomes all by myself i never whored my info out and i would be A'ok with someone new joining the server and doing there CoP in half the time it took me JUST SAYING
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Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
How? You dont really know what you are talking about. You mention people racing to the top of the mountain and running out of things to do and quitting? News Flash: Not a single person has done this with current SoD content. I'm in the #1 guild and we still have plenty of unbeaten content.
Do you really think that a majority of people are sitting around just wishing they had exp'd slower? There is an insane amount of grinding in SoD, and I'm going to agree with Draeos in that I think its probably too much. Most people aren't ultra excited to grind out masses of tomes. Its fun to hang with some friends and dungeon crawl, but when are clearing out x dungeon for the 100th time and only maybe 20% through all the exp your character needs, it might start to get tedious.
You cling to the idea that you are a voice of reason and objectivity surrounded by people who just can't seem to grasp what is best for the game. You really don't understand what is best for SoD or what most of its players want.
There are problems associated with inflation. It is also impossible to prevent in a MMO. Stop acting like the economist that knows what is best. Its not about stopping inflation. Its about minimizing it (which SoD happens to do a great job of) while making new, fun content, and creating a happy community. Your suggestions are impossible and/or detrimental to other key aspects of a sucessful MMO.
Well one thing is clear, you're playing this game wrong. If Solo is able to gear his character up doing nothing, and you're having to work your ass off to get to where you are, who's the fool? You waste all this time grinding your character and Solo creates a character that's able to do the same thing you're doing without having to invest the time. He gets all the fun of getting phat loots without the pain of exping. He's clearly better at this game since he's climbing a second character to a higher tier than you'll ever be able to get to in all your efforts. Man that must really hurt your feelings. Solo is destroying this game, one pixel at a time.
Has it ever occurred to you that if there weren't so many people reaching the end-game largely through leeching, that the devs might actually raise the XP rates for players who put in effort to attain their progression?
Uhh, you also do realize that i can only think of 1 type of leech group that might even come close to real xp and thats not even that great, Leeching tends to be shit for xp but is just slightly better then AFKing, Today i made 9% into my current tome in 3 1/3 hours of afking this tome is roughly 30AA's worth, So exactly how is that kind of XP rate making people climb to the top of the end game of xp'z, You do realize theirs maybe 10 toons? Thats probably a pretty liberal number to with absolutely no useful xp to get and they have been around for uhh 3 years min but more likely around 4 or 5.
Idk what to tell you besides stop letting others peoples success hurt your butt so hard.
Idk what to tell you besides stop letting others peoples success hurt your butt so hard.
Rorne
The sad fish is a reactionary creature; an enemy o
We are the 99%
Maybe you're right, and I guess that's the real question, isn't it? It seems the logical conclusion to draw here is that we should all play the game just like Silo, who's proved through public trial and error exactly the way this game was intended to be played.
Rorne
The sad fish is a reactionary creature; an enemy o
Yes you're finally understanding the virtues of a free market
The game is intended to be played however you want to play it, within the rules. If you want to progress through all the tiers and play the game for 4 or 5 years, have fun. If you want to play the game like it's your job for 2 years and reach the current pinnacle of the server and devote some of your free time to an alternate character and have fun dominating lower tiers, then do it.
There's no wrong or right way to play if you just focus on yourself and enjoy how you want to play. What Solo does has no effect on what you do. It doesn't diminish your efforts. You've played the game a certain way and hopefully enjoyed your time doing it. If you haven't enjoyed it, why the fuck are you playing? There will always be higher tiered characters with alts going after lower tiers. There will always be a handful of people skyrocketing through the game. It's just a part of playing an MMO.
There's a reason Solo is able to do what he's doing with Grupo. He did put the time in. He did the grinding already. He knows all about the mechanics of the game and community. That's why he's able to get an alt to where it is now. He's in a position because of all the time he's spent playing this game. He has earned it. And to be honest, making an alt and dominating through content in a few months that took your main 2 or 3 years is pretty fucking satisfying and enjoyable. It's another element that gives the game legs and adds to it's continued gratification.
Don't get mad that you aren't one of them. You could do it if you wanted to. You could invest more time. You could join the best guild on the server. You could do whatever your heart desires. But don't sit there and argue that someone else getting through the game quicker than you is bad for the server when you're just upset they're getting to where you want to be before you.
There's no wrong or right way to play if you just focus on yourself and enjoy how you want to play. What Solo does has no effect on what you do. It doesn't diminish your efforts. You've played the game a certain way and hopefully enjoyed your time doing it. If you haven't enjoyed it, why the fuck are you playing? There will always be higher tiered characters with alts going after lower tiers. There will always be a handful of people skyrocketing through the game. It's just a part of playing an MMO.
There's a reason Solo is able to do what he's doing with Grupo. He did put the time in. He did the grinding already. He knows all about the mechanics of the game and community. That's why he's able to get an alt to where it is now. He's in a position because of all the time he's spent playing this game. He has earned it. And to be honest, making an alt and dominating through content in a few months that took your main 2 or 3 years is pretty fucking satisfying and enjoyable. It's another element that gives the game legs and adds to it's continued gratification.
Don't get mad that you aren't one of them. You could do it if you wanted to. You could invest more time. You could join the best guild on the server. You could do whatever your heart desires. But don't sit there and argue that someone else getting through the game quicker than you is bad for the server when you're just upset they're getting to where you want to be before you.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
It makes really no sense to call for Solo's blood in this, but not entirely surprising people are doing it. Seeing as the same shit happens anytime someone that happens to be doing better than you in a game gets in trouble or has something bad happen to them (see campout altloot extravaganza from way back). It's so fucking predictable it's almost nauseating, at least in real life it tends to be more cloak and dagger, which makes it marginally more interesting.
No you shouldn't. You were performing a valuable service for friends in making and then letting them use the character. The biggest problem you would encounter would be the account policy. But that's another story.
Also this. This. This. This. There are many ways to play an MMO, and there SHOULD be many ways to play an MMO. That is one of the things that is fun about an MMO. Hell, the social game and the politics alone tend to keep people around looong after they would have stopped playing the game. If someone else's way isn't your way, and you can't hack it their way you have options. Either be content with playing your own way, or find another game.
No you shouldn't. You were performing a valuable service for friends in making and then letting them use the character. The biggest problem you would encounter would be the account policy. But that's another story.
Also this. This. This. This. There are many ways to play an MMO, and there SHOULD be many ways to play an MMO. That is one of the things that is fun about an MMO. Hell, the social game and the politics alone tend to keep people around looong after they would have stopped playing the game. If someone else's way isn't your way, and you can't hack it their way you have options. Either be content with playing your own way, or find another game.
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Well I obviously did not know the whole story of how the info was given out.
I am not so sure that sort of thing can be illegal without having huge repercussions though. It seems to me if someone does that sort of thing that the social aspect of the game should be what balances it out. I know I would not as a player group or associate with someone who gives out their info in OOC.
It seems like the social movement has already spoken given the cry for more punishment with regards to grupo.
I am going to talk with Tarutao about this whole thing. Grupo is going to stay reverted. A character that is maimed like that should be reverted period. At the same time I am not so sure if there is nothing we about gross exp prostitution. I am a little sickened this is even a problem - especially given the implications it has to the games long running problem of "tank recycling".
I will talk to Tarutao.
P.S. The "i am doing it to help the noobs" line is absolutely in every way insane.
I am not so sure that sort of thing can be illegal without having huge repercussions though. It seems to me if someone does that sort of thing that the social aspect of the game should be what balances it out. I know I would not as a player group or associate with someone who gives out their info in OOC.
It seems like the social movement has already spoken given the cry for more punishment with regards to grupo.
I am going to talk with Tarutao about this whole thing. Grupo is going to stay reverted. A character that is maimed like that should be reverted period. At the same time I am not so sure if there is nothing we about gross exp prostitution. I am a little sickened this is even a problem - especially given the implications it has to the games long running problem of "tank recycling".
I will talk to Tarutao.
P.S. The "i am doing it to help the noobs" line is absolutely in every way insane.
Minerios
Dalayan Adventurer
Accusations of jealousy are so fucking predictable whenever someone complains about anything related to the top players that I feel like I'm back in high school. Seriously people, can we drop that asinine retort?
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
Then by all means explain the outrage to an incident that affects you in no way whatsoever. Other than of course that you did some dumb shit once
and simply because you had to deal with it (in another game mind you) you think someone else should have to.
Also, I never said jealousy has anything to do with it. What it does have to do with is they tend to be the most visible, and active players in a given game. They make bigger, and better targets, and people like to take shots at other people.
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Minerios
Dalayan Adventurer
I believe rules are rules. When the policy states clearly that stolen items are stolen and will not be reimbursed, but it is then decided that if you fiddle enough with a character's equipment, it will be restored, it strikes me as a bad decision. Even more so when there are tools already implemented that aim exactly to prevent that kind of abuse that the victim opted not to use. The staff explained their reasoning behind their decision; I disagree with it, but it's their call, so be it.
I don't see what ridiculous accusations of jealousy bring to the debate. Do you really believe casual players sit in a dark corner away from the cool kids and glare at established/hardcore players with mad envy in their eyes? Come on.
ETA: You don't use the word "jealousy", but your argument sure seem to draw from that notion. You really think that I think Grupo shouldn't have been restored because I'm mad Minerios wasn't restored on Live? 0_0
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