The amount of plat you get when you sell your Charm(s)

Z

Zhak

Dalayan Beginner
This thread is going to talk about the amount of plat that you get when you sell your charm.

My major concern here is that it makes the progression of charms more difficult than what they used to be and incredibly expensive if you ever want to move charms from a character to another for any reason.

I am mainly going to talk about the 215k, 538k, and the 1.2 mil charm here because that's where the time sink really gets insane.

The return on the 215k charm is 144k which is 66.97%, I'm not positive but I am going to assume that the % is nearly the same for the 538k and the 1.2 mil charm.

The loss on each charm is as follows:

215k - 71k
538k - 177k
1.2 mil charm - 423k

These numbers are pretty astounding, when trying to upgrade your charm once you get to the end game, it is already an extremely time consuming process, it takes most people a year ( or so ) to get a 200k charm, it can be done in 3-4 months if you are active and have the time to dedicate to it but burning out is incredibly easy, the amount of man hours put in to just obtaining a 215k is at least 175-200 hours.

The way I understand it, is that Wiz made charms no drop so they would remain a time sink and you couldn't just pass your charm around your characters as you wanted to. With the current resale price on charms, I don't think I've seen anyone make a decision to sell their 200k, eternal, or 1.2 on one char and move it to the other. I've been contemplating moving my 1.2 charm to Podge and I know that Linken doesn't play anymore and sure there's some debate as to sell it or move on, but when you're forced to take a 423k hit to try and replace it, there's just no way it's going to happen, that's over 80% of an eternal charm just to move your 1.2 from character A to character B.

This could also be a potential issue with guild charms ( tanks, main clerics, etc ). If a member of a guild leaves or quits, a guild is forced to take a significant hit to the guild bank to try and replace the charm.

Which brings me to my suggestion.

There are two suggestions for the charm resale amounts and keeping them as a plat sink.

1) A straight fee for selling your charm. For the 36k, have it be 3k, for the 215k, 538k, 1.2 mil have it be 5-10k.

2) Change the % that you get back to 95%, which would make a 200k charm resell for 204k (9k loss), 538k for 511k (27k), and 1.2 mil for 1,216,000 (64k). I think it costs 1,280,000 normally, been too long since I bought mine

I know the charm resale amounts has been discussed in previous threads but there was never a staff decision made on it so I figured I'd bring it up again.

Thanks for your time
 
I would assume he would buy the caster 1.2mill instead. but zhak I agree selling you charms to the vendors is retarded now a days I know there supposed to be plat sinks but when if you want to move or upgrade your charm you take such a hard shot that most people just go to the 200k and stop ever even trying there.
 
Podge can't even equip the melee 1.2, I would get the caster one, but that's beside the point, I didn't make the thread for that specific reason, I think there's a flaw with the return when you sell a charm
 
It took me about 500 man hours to farm up 215k to buy my juggernaut charm. The vast majority of that plat came from Cycgorge. Overall about 400 plat a hour. It took about 5 months from start to finish. And I'm about to go do it again for a wizard. I have a lot of motivation to farm for these 215k charms. I can do it and still keep my sanity. Farming for a 500k or 1.2 mil charm though can kiss my grits anyday of the week. And after I'm done with this genocide whatever charm for wizard, I'll never farm for the rest of my days that's for damn sure.

If they ever changed things up on charm hand in prices, I'll almost certainly turn in my juggernaut for a genocide and refarm another Juggernaut.

I think you should get most if not all of your money back from trade in. The no drop tag will still serve it's purpose and only the most anal of people are going to sit there trading in charm A to buy charm b for char B then repeat process for char A when they're done with char B. And when it's someone upgrading their charm that plat is just going back out of circulation when they buy the upgrade. It'd just be nice to have the option of switching up charms if you wanted to, i.e. how I just want to turn my juggo into a genocide for my wizard and Zhak wants to put his on the shm without having to go out and farm for unholy hours AGAIN(I've gotta farm another 215k regardless but damn it'd be nice to be taking advantage of a genocide charm for the wizard while the sk can live juggoless for another 4 or 5 months.)

In the past when charms were droppable, they were money sinks just fine imo. You know anyone that was wts a 36k charm was looking to get about 30k and you know that 30k was going towards a 100k or 200k charm. People got charms for less on the market and it meant they didn't go to the charm merchant and spend 36k but it was the original buyer who already put in that 6k and that plat was down the drain for good. Sooo I don't know. Maybe I'm missing something on the reasoning for the change. I'm certainly happy that you can trade them in for something back and I've already grown used to it. But here and there I wonder if we shouldn't get a more of a break with all the hard work people do for the 215k+ charms. Do we really *have* to go out and farm more money just to sink it into a charm when we could just trade it in, and buy the upgrade/a different 215k/500k/1.2mil charm to resink the plat, in essence bypassing all that extra work that could end up burning you out.

Food for thought.
 
After just losing 70k+ on the sale of my juggo on one character so I could move it to another I would have to say I support this idea completely.
 
This was another case of multiple solutions being put in for the same problem. When charms were made no drop, the amount of money sunk into them greatly increased due to a higher number of them. 10% max loss would be far better than the 33%.

I support any reasonable change in this.
 
First and Foremost, I agree with Zhak.

There will eventually come a time where I am going to retire Draxx and make another character. At this point in time, I would like to transfer my 215K charm (which I am a hair away from getting) to that character. Would I like to take such a giant loss of money? Of course not. Maybe there could be some kind of transfer thing the GMs could do, like taking a juggo and making it into a Diabolic Charm of Genocide for one character.

I just can't see taking a 71K hit to the wallet when and if I retire Draxx and play something else. If that happens I'll probably just quit to be perfectly honest.

Edit: I didn't mean for this to sound like an ultimatum because it's not, I was just saying I wouldn't want to take the huge money hit and just not bother farming or whatever.
 
its hard to even a person that bought a 36k charm, sell it and try upgrading it to a 216k , and then to a 500k charm... usually ppl just farm all they way to the 500k charm, instead of makin it step by step, cuz they money loss is just too huge!

Altho i am not sure if i agree with the idea on sellin a 1,2k charm and getting most of its cash back, and like buyin 2 500k charm to other 2 ppl... i think that charms are made to money sink. So either u take the huge hit and move your charm to other person. Or make some sort of credit when sellin your charm of 36k, you get a credit of 36k to buy your other charm, so we could progress step by step, instead of takin years, to get to the last step.

Hope everyone understood what i meant :) hehehe
 
Ryei said:
its hard to even a person that bought a 36k charm, sell it and try upgrading it to a 216k , and then to a 500k charm... usually ppl just farm all they way to the 500k charm, instead of makin it step by step, cuz they money loss is just too huge!
Click to expand...

I can recall of one person in the history that I've been on the server that someone actually skipped their 200k charm and went for an eternal.
 
Charms are a huge money sink already. Making them nodrop made them an even bigger money sink. I think Rurho had the idea of charm credits, where the lowest charm would give you 1 credit, the next step up from that one would give you two, etc. I think that it's a great idea, and taken further, you can give your charm to the lady and she would give you a token based on your charm turnin. A copper one for a low one, a silver one for the next step up, etc. That can be transferred to one person one time, so if you are in the situation I presented above, you can easily transfer your charm with no money loss.
 
This is the reason why I suggested a credit baised system, so that it couldn't be passed onto another character. Or a higher percent turnover rate would also be nice. Something to stop the huge loss in plat when upgrading/switching to another charm.
 
I agree that a loss of 1/3 on each charm turnin is to harsh.
I like the idea of turning your charm in for charm credit with a much lower loss. However tradable charm credits would be almost the same as plat. so maybe reduce the credit on it everytime you trade it or something.
 
Zhak said:
I can recall of one person in the history that I've been on the server that someone actually skipped their 200k charm and went for an eternal.
Click to expand...

i can recall kaloft
 
articbre said:
This is the reason why I suggested a credit baised system, so that it couldn't be passed onto another character. Or a higher percent turnover rate would also be nice. Something to stop the huge loss in plat when upgrading/switching to another charm.
Click to expand...

I like this system.
 
In my opinoin, if you farm enough to afford these charms, you can put it on whatever character you want to. Perhaps altering the recommended levels (which are already pretty good) could help avoid 'twinking' a low level with insane charm stats. But I still say if you put that much effort into it, you deserve to do whatever you want with it. Now, 100% trade in doesn't seem fair because there should be some penalty from going back and forth.. The orgininal idea of the game is to have 1 character and focus on it. But, as mentioned, 85-95% seems like a fair return. And gratz to anyone who has farmed any 200k+ charms yet.. I hope I can do it when I get there!
 
If all other gear is going to be no drop on equip, then how is this different? It should be something to where you can upgrade via a token for 100% credit of the original cost of whatever charm you traded in, but the tokens shouldn't be droppable nor should cash be given back for charms.
 
The charms were made nodrop because of a very specific set of reasons, none of which are addressed in the OP or the majority of the thread. While there might be an argument to be had that charms should be more mobile, the stuff in this thread so far hasn't hit the mark. I know most of you would be happier because you look at it like it's giving everyone a boost and hurting nothing, but you should look at the bigger picture: Droppable charms have a big pile of nonobivous problems with them. They were made NO DROP for good reasons, after all. Anything that makes NO DROP charms easier to move or sell is a step back in that direction.

Yes, you lose money when selling your charm--that isn't bad. You lose money when you die, you lose money when you use potions, etc; there are lots of ways to gain or lose money and there are lots of things to buy with that money, not all of which are resaleable. When you pay debt you can't turn around and re-sell that xp for 95% plat. It's good that moving a 'NO DROP' item costs so much money that it's not really worth it. That's what NO DROP is supposed to do.

Bluntly, mobile charms are far more trouble than they're worth, and a 95% resale on charms is very, very close to being full-on tradeable (95% close, to be exact :haw: ). Making it easier to upgrade from Charm A to Charm B all on the same character--that's fine, I'm on board. Stuff like this is fine:

articbre said:
This is the reason why I suggested a credit baised system, so that it couldn't be passed onto another character. Or a higher percent turnover rate would also be nice. Something to stop the huge loss in plat when upgrading/switching to another charm.
Click to expand...

But makinig it at all reasonable to move a charm from one character to another? No, that defeats the entire purpose of a moneysink. We'd be back where we started.
 
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