Thazeran Revamp

the logic of "hey, there's 5000 other targets up, so lets go ahead and delete this zone" is one of the dumbest thing i've ever heard in my life and i cannot believe people are just accepting it like it makes sense. does every boss drop the same loot?

the t8-9 crew are the people who need help more than anyone in this game. i know what it's like to be tier 9 with high turnover, raid loggers who can't finish tomes, etc. if thaz is so ridiculous and makes the game so easy, why is it so hard to progress?

let's not forget the fact that sanctum used to be easier back then. experience was easier to get 3-4 months ago. we had all the loot available from thaz. WHY do you keep stacking up shit that makes it harder to get past t9? i would expect consistent patches to make the transition smoother. i would look at the dwindling population and wonder why it keeps getting worse. this is just yet ANOTHER patch that makes the game harder for the average player, and even though i'm part of the cool club that isn't affected, i still don't think it's right.
 
It's hard to progress because people are lazy, and nobody likes to give out strats beyond thazs tier, and they don't want to take the time to learn fights with some actual level of difficulty to them. It isn't that they can't do the fights, it's that they can't fill their raid with people that don't mind spending a couple nights wiping to learn the fight as opposed to spending those nights getting gear they only THINK they need to do the fight they're too afraid to try.
 
kibeth: if that is your opinion, perhaps time and effort should be spent on helping that rather than recklessly deleting entire raid zones without warning that have existed for 4 years. that is what i am getting at.
 
So your saying lazy = casual? Not at all. I more meant people that aren't willing to try fights they don't know right away. You can be lazy and play the game 7 days a week, you can be casual and play the game 1 night a week and get more done in that time. They aren't the same thing.
 
cian2 said:
kibeth: if that is your opinion, perhaps time and effort should be spent on helping that rather than recklessly deleting entire raid zones without warning that have existed for 4 years. that is what i am getting at.
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Unless I read that wrong, the Dev staff is supposed to somehow code people into trying things rather than staying in their comfort zone
 
Saying strats halts progression is laughable. unless you're talking about the mythical prime strat that is supposed to be there but isn't. What halts progression is lack of dedicated people playing and gearing/charming up toons. It's already a giant pain in the dick to have to regear/gear so many people but if/when someone burns out you have a big burden of boxing that person or replacing that person, either way it's much bigger than not knowing a strat.
 
kibeth said:
Unless I read that wrong, the Dev staff is supposed to somehow code people into trying things rather than staying in their comfort zone
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the funny thing is, tier 10 is even more congested. by taking away their targets and forcing them out of their "comfort zone," if you want to force them into tier 10 they can go attempt to find any of the first 4 in sanctum or animation/ferdin, or... um... who wants to farm elael's goblins? yeah. when do exo and CW raid again? /q

all this change does is kick guilds like sacred band/novus in the teeth yet again. these people are the lifeblood of the server, and i have to wonder how much more they can take.
 
Lack of content at tier 9 doesn't stall or kill guilds. The problem is that much of t9 and before is a lot easier than t10+ (given the current environment of widespread stratleaks and sometimes ringers up until that tier). People get lazy and content with easy phats. They like the community of their guild, and they hate their competition simply for being competition (and usually some mostly madeup drama). Their guild so far has been able to progress with frequent boxes and ungeared/expd/casual players who show up willy nilly (nothing against casuals, they just hurt guilds that are above them and bring them to raids)

So... you end up with this endless stream of guilds that get up to t9 and everything is dandy, loot is rolling in for everyone. Then suddenly at t10 and t11 shit gets harder. Some people dont like the difficulty, or having to learn new strats, or maybe even competition, and they quit. Losing players is normal, but at t10/11 suddenly its much more important to actually have 18 on tier toons, so that raider turnover hurts a lot more. This is essentially what kills a lot of guilds. It suddenly is harder to progress and then they lose a couple key players and realize they are going to be backgearing for months and then suddenly everyone quits/leaves.

What can you do as a t9 guild? Merge with your best competition. Don't say hey we can do this with boxed and undergeared players and then wait until the guild is falling apart to merge. The fact is even if you don't need 18 competent, on tier players exactly where you are now, you are going to need them soon. As you go past t10/11 it is only going to get harder (AND you actually have to learn strats yourself?!?!?). Of course most people/guildleaders are too proud and they will let it all go to shit rather than do what they need to to.

That has basically been my stance on the whole t9 graveyard thing since watching it all happen in Ethereal, and then actually progressing through it all in FWF. Fights are mostly even doable with boxes until t13 (progressively harder though), but having people standing by ready to join the raid if someone leaves keeps the entire force energized, excited, willing, etc.
 
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cian2 said:
the funny thing is, tier 10 is even more congested. by taking away their targets and forcing them out of their "comfort zone," if you want to force them into tier 10 they can go attempt to find any of the first 4 in sanctum or animation/ferdin, or... um... who wants to farm elael's goblins? yeah. when do exo and CW raid again? /q

all this change does is kick guilds like sacred band/novus in the teeth yet again. these people are the lifeblood of the server, and i have to wonder how much more they can take.
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I don't think removing targets from tier 9 is contributing to the issue that you are bringing up At All. Gear will not carry you through tier 10, I would argue that a guild could completely skip LT/UT and successfully do the majority of tier 10 content (of Sanctum I would only put Drakes as being high tier 10).

One of the glaring issues with guilds once they hit tier 10, is they lack the dedication to charm/tome. The difference between a DPS with 1.5-2 tomes (which is pretty standard in most tier 9/early 10 guilds) and a DPS with 8 tomes is absolutely massive. Charms aren't as essential until you start getting into fights with lots of raidwide damage (starting with Essence, Prime etc.).

The other glaring issue for tier 10 guilds (and the root cause of the current congestion problem) is Prime Enchanter. Exodus and Chaotic Winds should be in Spires, but they are not. Because they are not they are killing tier 9/10 mobs that would normally be progression targets for guilds like Sacred Band and Novus (generals, thaz 1&2, and yclist mostly). If you put Spires into the equation for Exodus or Chaotic Winds it opens up a slew of content for up and coming tier 10 guilds.

You can say that no guild has found the true strat for Prime Enchanter yet, and I will respond by saying that four completely different guilds have all come to Prime Enchanter and been completely roadblocked. The only successful guilds (TU and FWF) were able to do so because they were so massively overgeared and over-tomed that the strat was essentially power through. It might be a good fight in the eyes of the creator, but to me the fact that 70+ people have all been exposed to the fight and no one has come up with the strat is a glaring design flaw that is being overlooked.
 
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I think i have pointed out to every dev who will listen that 70-100 people have seen this encounter, and no ones picked up on the mythical "trick". It's not being overlooked, its "WORKING AS INTENDED".

And i can verify, if Exo or CW got into spires, Novus and SB would actully catch Gens/Thaz 1 2 / Well, UP once in awhile, but in the meantime between 4 hour chain wipes to prime and 5 hour chain wipes to prime, We kill these things for easy loot/the 2 items that we need 4 of, and rot the rest, You can only get 18 people to die to a mob for 4-5 hours a day for so long before you gota throw some loot at them.
 
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1, don't cast spells on globes unless it is a mez. Casting spells can break mez cc on all other globes.

2, when a thing glows a color(red,green,purple,whateves) mez said globe before it reaches big globe status. It slowly grows now too so should not be a problem. If this doesnt work its because someone did not follow step 1 or they are too slow.

=] ] ] ] ] ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
 
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what.. I knew there was a substantiated reason behind my dislike for Raralith and Stral as enchanters..
 
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We brought up these ideas for sure but it was assured that they were mez immune 100% of the time.

Good stuff though, we need free clears to Saitha.
 
A few things:

Slaar, I personally, and I can only assume most of those reading don't have a problem with your reasoning behind canning Thaz. I personally am sick to death of it anyway tbh (LT, UT). I just agree with Draeos that we could've used alternatives first.

Tbh as far as Novus goes, at least from my perspective, it just is coming at the worst time for us, as even our backgears are starting to catch up to and get sick of most of our targets we're able to find up.

Let me say, because I see it mentioned a few times, that we're not sitting where we are because of lack of the ability to do the stuff (and I'm not saying we could, hell I don't know). We just don't ever find it up when we raid. We've beaten everything we've managed to try (well we haven't messed around in IS enough imo, but that's another deal...).

It has also been pointed out the million targets that are up I guess atm. We'll be ecstatic if a couple of those on the whole list stay up, but (and this is where my problem with pugs on progression targets comes up, and thus my agreement with Zatik) all of those have been pugged a lot lately and I'd be willing to bet if Exo hasn't taken them down by normal raid times for guilds, a pug will.

The thing is, at least in our case (kind of as I pointed out when I alluded to the bloodfire wing not really being useful at all to us) we're not "tier 8/9". We need Farhags and up (well, thaz 1/2, yclist, etc.) Most of that list doesn't do anything for us. We're in that spot where the tier 9-11 congestion starts to take a dump on you.

I don't want my guild to die. I'm not sure what to do about it. We're not a guild of people that can all call each other and snag the well when someone finds it up. We almost all work, go to school, have kids, etc. and I'm not saying everyone else doesn't. I guess I'm just saying maybe Bango's right. Maybe this is as far as we're intended to get.

I'm not gonna bash any dev, admin, gm whatever ever. You guys don't get paid. Even the complainers appreciate it when they stop to think. We'll just have to occasionally agree to disagree...
 
I honestly don't believe you track all that stuff that you could be progressing on. When I do a lot of my pugs, its not because I have been waiting for x mob to spawn. I finish hanging out with guild, or doing other things, and I load a dozen trackers. There are mobs up all the time. Some of them require keys, others don't, but if you are stuck in the mindset that the well and farhags and thaz1/2 are the only progression through that tier, it will probably take forever. I personally think that since the change, Abyss is one of the most lucrative ways to progress through t10 (and as such it is be killed more)
 
Obscenitor said:
One of the glaring issues with guilds once they hit tier 10, is they lack the dedication to charm/tome. The difference between a DPS with 1.5-2 tomes (which is pretty standard in most tier 9/early 10 guilds) and a DPS with 8 tomes is absolutely massive. Charms aren't as essential until you start getting into fights with lots of raidwide damage (starting with Essence, Prime etc.).
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This is totally true and brings me to Slaariel's other major change, the exp nerf a few months ago. Every zone had it's exp modifier nerfed, including Citadel by 20% and BQ by 40%. I lump these two horribly short-sighted changes together.

Silosobi said:
We brought up these ideas for sure but it was assured that they were mez immune 100% of the time.

Good stuff though, we need free clears to Saitha.
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They were definitely mez immune all the time back when PR did it. Probably changed.
 
cian2 said:
This is totally true and brings me to Slaariel's other major change, the exp nerf a few months ago. Every zone had it's exp modifier nerfed, including Citadel by 20% and BQ by 40%. I lump these two horribly short-sighted changes together.
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I can think of at least one other short-sighted Slaariel decision...
 
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