Suggestions for Rebuilding Felwithe

Actually if you follow the cult of entrophy quests you realize that the cultists there in newport are very much evil aligned folk, what wit hthe spread of desease and decay that they're trying to work about. This is a problem for those who take the 'good' path within the main quest since there's a fundimental clash of ethics between the two. I REALLY wish i had first hand access but unfortunatly I don't so I'm having to rely on other people to fill in the specifics. Its just that with the cultists trying to promote death and decay and the guild at oggok gone there really does need to be some sort of alternitive for those that wish to look into necromantic tomes and such. After all, its fitting and propper to use every tool avalible to you, and having first hand knowledge of what your enemies are capible of would give those trying to rebuild athica a rather nice leg up in the way of things.
 
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The reason behind the necromancers could be that the good Necromancers wanted to find an out of the way place to study and meditate. And in exchange for this they pledge to guard the city. Any necromancer wishing to enter first gets stoped at the gate. " You are not allowed until you take the oath. To take the oath you must bring 4 {insert random low level mob} skulls to prove that you are devoted to protecting the city." This would give them enough faction to enter the city and get to the necro guild then to make the city like them more they have to do quest similar to the bounties in Newport.
 
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knightwalkr said:
The reason behind the necromancers could be that the good Necromancers wanted to find an out of the way place to study and meditate. And in exchange for this they pledge to guard the city. Any necromancer wishing to enter first gets stoped at the gate. " You are not allowed until you take the oath. To take the oath you must bring 4 {insert random low level mob} skulls to prove that you are devoted to protecting the city." This would give them enough faction to enter the city and get to the necro guild then to make the city like them more they have to do quest similar to the bounties in Newport.
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Good necromancers do not exist. All necros are extremely evil by definition, how else could they enslave souls and defile the dead. The survive off the life force of others and spread only disease and poision wherever they go. Even their heal is dark in nature, using their own poisoned souls to heal others (when it benefits them) and then stealing the life back from whatever creature is unfortunate enough to cross their path.

Magic is nto good or evil, it is how you choose to use it. Necros use it only in evil ways. Necros and SKs can only be evil, Paladins only good, for the most part other classes have a choice in their path.

Not all cities have all types of classes, or all types of spells. Necros and SKs should only be able to fidn their spells and form guilds in hidden locations, or in evil cities. I don't believe there is anythign in athica that would allow them the secrecy they need to exist, since most good races/classes will not tolerate their existence.
 
It is possible for a necromancer with a good alignment to exist - although such a necro would have to avoid doing most of their class quests - but only by either self-delusion or taking the "I can use my powers for the greater good" path. Necromancy is indeed, very very evil in itself.
 
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knightwalkr said:
The reason behind the necromancers could be that the good Necromancers wanted to find an out of the way place to study and meditate. And in exchange for this they pledge to guard the city. Any necromancer wishing to enter first gets stoped at the gate. " You are not allowed until you take the oath. To take the oath you must bring 4 {insert random low level mob} skulls to prove that you are devoted to protecting the city." This would give them enough faction to enter the city and get to the necro guild then to make the city like them more they have to do quest similar to the bounties in Newport.
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Necromancy is illegal in basically every city except Grobb.
 
Wiz said:
It is possible for a necromancer with a good alignment to exist - although such a necro would have to avoid doing most of their class quests - but only by either self-delusion or taking the "I can use my powers for the greater good" path. Necromancy is indeed, very very evil in itself.
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I don't think it's necessarily the fact that Necromancers are taking on a good/"non-evil" alignment. But I think the Necromancers understand how the mists can destroy the world they exist in. I'm pretty sure there's been at least 1 necromancer or shadowknight that is a part of the bearers of truth. Is it fair to say they cannot be a part of the reconstruction of Athica? Are we to turn our backs on the people that helped us free the city? Were they upset to go against their "brothers"... I am sure they were ... but in the same respect they were trapped with the issue of extinction vs. survival. Am I wrong? If I am wrong please put me in my place.
 
There is a small camp just outside of Athica ... currently occupied by 3x Iksar Skeletons (which by the way are not flagged as undead, my cleric couldn't cast undead spells on them). These 3 skele's are part of the Main Quest, but I suppose it could be possible to move them elsewhere in the zone (or possibly another zone) and that camp could be occupied by SK/Necro GM's/Spell Vendors. It would be close enough to Athica, and would make everyone happy. Thoughts? Problems? Suggestions?
 
Wiz said:
It is possible for a necromancer with a good alignment to exist - although such a necro would have to avoid doing most of their class quests - but only by either self-delusion or taking the "I can use my powers for the greater good" path. Necromancy is indeed, very very evil in itself.
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That's senseless. The only thing I can do is wreak death and destruction on scales small and big, but I'm hardly evil. Necromancy is no more so. A conduit of power is just that, a conduit of power - it's how and why you ultimately use it that makes you good or evil.
 
I want a *reason* that necro vendors would be hanging around in Athica, not just "why not"
 
The same reason a wizard vendor would -- to make money, or serve their organization. As for the guildmasters and organizations themselves, obviously, any popular place to spread their word is beneficial to their cause, as it is for a wizard guildmaster or organization. We would want the Necromancers and Shadowknights in the city, of course, because Necromancers and Shadowknights can be just as useful to our own cause as any wizard can. There is no logical difference, only irrational assumptions, and to deny ourselves significant aid in our goal based on irrational foolish would, naturally, be foolish.

Moreover, the Prophet states that everyone has a True Path that will bring about the true or right future. To say that Necromancers and Shadowknights suddenly do not would be sheepish at best, and would at the very least mandate that we remove every Necromancer and Shadowknight from the Bearer's lest we lose our ideological consistency and become hypocrites.
 
I think we're already hypocrites ... if I were a Necromancer or a Shadow Knight and I helped the Bearers and then were shunned away like this, I wouldn't want to be a part of it or the Prophet at all. In fact, being the evil dark elf that I am, I would encourage them to acknowledge their presence. They were there since the beginning, "how dare they brush us aside" ... is how I would feel.
 
Sormo said:
The same reason a wizard vendor would -- to make money, or serve their organization. As for the guildmasters and organizations themselves, obviously, any popular place to spread their word is beneficial to their cause, as it is for a wizard guildmaster or organization. We would want the Necromancers and Shadowknights in the city, of course, because Necromancers and Shadowknights can be just as useful to our own cause as any wizard can. There is no logical difference, only irrational assumptions, and to deny ourselves significant aid in our goal based on irrational foolish would, naturally, be foolish.

Moreover, the Prophet states that everyone has a True Path that will bring about the true or right future. To say that Necromancers and Shadowknights suddenly do not would be sheepish at best, and would at the very least mandate that we remove every Necromancer and Shadowknight from the Bearer's lest we lose our ideological consistency and become hypocrites.
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Yes, I'd like a reason that wizard vendors went there as well, honestly.
 
A quick clarification here in response to Sormo. Please note that my above declaring of necromancy as evil is based on my personal, real and in-game moral standards (and the basic moral standards as used by most "good" people of Dalaya), not an arbitrary declaration.

Necromancy is not unavoidably evil from every viewpoint, but it is evil based on most common Dalayan moral standards by enslaving others for your own will (as well as being a big no no to most good deities).
 
Technically speaking ... and I've hear Ykarri say this ... Evil is in the eye of the beholder ... a true necromancer may not believe he is evil, but his Paladin enemy is evil. When you follow a path and have your own belief's ... typically you feel the opposite belief is "evil"
 
I have met necromancers who use their magic to help others, to protect and to heal. I have met mages who seek nothing but wanton destruction for their own amusement. The individual is evil or good, neither the magic nor the class is.

And yes, I have said before that evil is in the eye of the beholder. The guards think me evil for stealing their full purses, but One Eyed Murt thinks me a kindly lady when I come to have lunch with him every weekend with the stolen money.
 
In response to wiz asking why a wizard vendor would show up in athica:

Lets look at casters for a moment. from what I have seen and every book I have read, Casters a rule are knowledge whores. They do just about anything to gain it from purchase to research to things that should be left in the dark. From what I have seen the golden rule is always "He who knows the most is strongest"
Now if you were a finger waggler type person and you heard that a group of misguided fanatics were rediscovering ancient lore < ready the athica guardian> and then heard that they had encounters with ancient and unknown races, where would you go.
Of course you won't be able to live for free so sell of your knowledge to those less then you < read spells> to support your self while you search for the ultimate prize.. More knowledge.

Now granted not all casters fall into that class but I think that enough would for it to be justifyable for spell venders to be there

Val
 
Wiz said:
It is possible for a necromancer with a good alignment to exist - although such a necro would have to avoid doing most of their class quests - but only by either self-delusion or taking the "I can use my powers for the greater good" path. Necromancy is indeed, very very evil in itself.
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/nod

And that is pretty much the core component of my character's mind set. To him necromancy is a tool just the same as a hammer or a plow would be. He's well aware that what he does would be considered immoral even if only because to advance knowledge within his given feeld he has to, by nessecity, study how the living react when subjected to deseases/life force removal. Byond that there is the fact that his familliar is a set of bones drug up from a random grave site of some woman that probably still has family that would very much frown on animating her remains to serve him. Is he dilusional in thinking that by taking a darker path he can do some good in the world? Perhaps, but thats what he's chosen to do with his life. Why put all that here? Hard to say really other than perhaps to give an example of a character that might be wanted for reconstruction.

Why deny anybody with arcane knowledge their tools if they have the city's interests in mind? People will want to study the construct at some point in time and its always best to view a problem from every angle, no matter how unlikely, if you hope to find a solution. In this case the solution would be 'how do we either combat the mist directly, or create more and or better protective constructs for the cities we already have?'.
 
Wizard's are all about destructive power, and channelling that power. We do not heal. We do not buff, save for a DS and a proc, both of which are also destructive.

Wariors fight and kill.

Paladins fight and kill and heal.

Monks fight and kill.

etc.
etc.
etc.

In game everyone is fighting against thier enemies, trying to save their friends and destroy their enemies. This is not necessarily good or evil, as it is possible (by most philosophies at least) to take a life without the deed being evil.
i.e. Shooting and killing someone who breaks into your house and attacks your family, as a real life example.

Necros, however, do not simply kill their enemies. Every one of their spells (which they have chosen personally) are used to torture their victems. Poison, disease, life taps. Using any one of these spells is an evil act, and there really is no way around that. Torturing your victems is evil, even if killing them is not. Reanimating and enslaving a dead corpse is the ultimate form of torture.

A necro who was not evil, would not be able to torture their enemies (except perhaps in extreme circumstances, but none come to mind). Therefore they would nto be able to use any of their dots, lifetaps, or summon pet spells.

However, there is one reason why necro spells (and all other spells/lore) would be available in Athica...

Arrielly follows Jayla, the god of knowledge. If any in Athica also follow Jayla, then they would HAVE TO include all knowledge in their library, no matter how evil the knowledge (or use of it) would be. To hoard, censor, or otherwise prevent the spread of knowledge is the greatest offence a follower of Jayla could commit. This could even be taken to the extreme of saying that a highly good character who followed Jayla would refuse to exterminate necros, even work with them, for the sole purpose of preserving that knowledge.
 
I should add that being of highly good alignment aarielly would be absolutely disgusted by the idea of having Necro spells sold in a "civilized" place. Their mere existence disgust her. However, the knowledge that they possess must be preserved as any other.
 
Other than hording knowledge would there be any legitimate reasons for adding necro spells to any potential repository in Athica? Sorry, just got nothin left to bring to the discussion on this point due to cranial burnout.
 
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