Spires Bracers Discussion (Split from Fortune Favors the Diverse - Bonus Raid Loot)
- Thread starter fxattack
- Start date
Cinny
Dalayan Elder
While on the note of spires bracers it sure would be nice if they would add in some checks like in 4.3 to where if a bracer did drop it would not be something that rotted. (since they are no longer guaranteed and a good deal of the time they do not drop) Our guild in particular has rotted a ton of mage bracers ( I'm not saying the drop more often than others or anything like that because i don't know I'm just stating what has happened for us is an example) It also seems that bracers in spires should have a better chance then just the bonus loot chance to me because they went from (nearly) every boss in spires dropping 2 items to now: Mobs drop 1 item with a bonus chance (which has already been expressed multiple times it does not happen all the time even with 15 people its just something nice and extra) to get a bracer that may or may not rot.
Again this is just suggestion based not supported by any facts or number because i don't have them but it seems to me like if we are going to only have a chance to get a bracer that chance to get a bracer should at least be guaranteed we don't rot it because of that class already having theirs. Or the bracers should have the drop rate increased to make them more common off bosses.
Again this is just suggestion based not supported by any facts or number because i don't have them but it seems to me like if we are going to only have a chance to get a bracer that chance to get a bracer should at least be guaranteed we don't rot it because of that class already having theirs. Or the bracers should have the drop rate increased to make them more common off bosses.
Pecannius
Dalayan Elder
So hopefully I'm misunderstanding this, but does that mean if you only have 10 classes alive at the end of a spires fight there is a 0% chance for a class bracer to drop?
Nwaij
Dalayan Pious Diety
No, you do not misunderstand this.
This was never the case. With the exception of Iskkath, who always dropped 2 loots (plus a bonus chance for a bracer) they always dropped 1 runic2 fragment and 1 bracer (again, with the chance of a bracer as bonus loot).
As it was from day 1. With the exception that every mob can drop every bracer now instead of each mod has a chance for 1-2 specific bracers.
I fail to see how bracers should be any different in regards of "this might rot" then any other bonus loots. If you want a better chance on bracers, make your raids more diverse and/or make sure people die less.
Dinadass
Dalayan Pious Diety
The loot mechanic for spires bracers has not always been the way it is now. For quite a while they were nearly guaranteed to drop.
Nwaij
Dalayan Pious Diety
Not at any point in time that I raided spires.
Daffie
Dalayan Pious Diety
I hate to further derail the thread but here are patch notes from last year:
Nebi
Dalayan Pious Diety
Nwaij's guild exploded around the time they were 100% drop rate.
Cinny
Dalayan Elder
Can someone please remove the spires bracers section from this thread and move it to the suggestion area i don't want it to turn the Fortune Favors the Diverse thread into the spires bracers loot thread (as its important that people actually looking for this mechanic can find it and the information relevant to it.
Nwaij
Dalayan Pious Diety
Split off the things about spires bracers.
Cinny
Dalayan Elder
Thank you Nwaij (thought this topic would have more so belonged in suggestions & requests but this is atleast keeping it from spamming up FFtD), Anyway now that we have the patch notes stating the change from original and we know now that you have 0 chance at getting a class bracer from spires if not at least 11 different classes survive the fight can we get this looked into/at being changed?
I would think that each boss should have a chance (not guaranteed) to drop a random spires bracer regardless of how many classes survive the encounter and then have that chance increased based upon the surviving classes.
Lets assume there is a function FFtD(int ClassesSurvived) that is used to calculate the chance of getting extra loot that returns a percent in decimal form ( so in short .31 = 31%).
i would think that spires bracers should have a chance to drop lets say X% chance to drop (just pulling something out of air here no clue what would be decided is reasonable keeping in mind they were at one point 100% chance to drop but only off x boss and they were changed in the name of fairness/balance) i would guess that a reasonable drop chance for bracers would then be (X + X*FFtD(#classes))% to drop a bracer.
Would be nice to get some comments on if this is something even worth discussing or if the staff has already decided on this matter absolutely.
I would think that each boss should have a chance (not guaranteed) to drop a random spires bracer regardless of how many classes survive the encounter and then have that chance increased based upon the surviving classes.
Lets assume there is a function FFtD(int ClassesSurvived) that is used to calculate the chance of getting extra loot that returns a percent in decimal form ( so in short .31 = 31%).
i would think that spires bracers should have a chance to drop lets say X% chance to drop (just pulling something out of air here no clue what would be decided is reasonable keeping in mind they were at one point 100% chance to drop but only off x boss and they were changed in the name of fairness/balance) i would guess that a reasonable drop chance for bracers would then be (X + X*FFtD(#classes))% to drop a bracer.
Would be nice to get some comments on if this is something even worth discussing or if the staff has already decided on this matter absolutely.
dracosf22
Dalayan Elder
I thought bracer drops were ramdom and not based off diversity. This makes it even more of a lottery then I anticipated and honestly is just awful.
Dinadass
Dalayan Pious Diety
When they were ~100% drops (which was not how spires was initially but they dropped like that for months) it was obviously too far on the "generous" side of the loot spectrum. The current system seems to be the opposite though; it would greatly surprise me if an on-tier guild averages a single bracer per raid between seldom having all 15 classes and also having at least a couple deaths against bosses.
Pecannius
Dalayan Elder
As being part of a guild that is just starting to kill stuff in this zone I'm admittedly biased, but still does seem very harsh.
The other thread is closed, so I guess I'll put my comments here.
Pretty sure I've mentioned the numbers for diversity bonus loot publicly a number of times. Wasn't any big secret.
The part where people have to live to the end of the fight to count towards it is almost certainly a matter of poor programming rather than intent. Counting the number of classes represented on the hatelist right now is easy. Keeping track of it even after people die and resetting it properly on wipes etc would require a (small) system, which would have been beyond Wiz at the time he put it in. Would not be hard to make it actually reward you for bringing a sub-optimal raid setup rather than for going after fights so trivial or easily survivable that you wouldn't need an optimal setup in the first place.
Dunno anything about spires, not my thing.
Pretty sure I've mentioned the numbers for diversity bonus loot publicly a number of times. Wasn't any big secret.
The part where people have to live to the end of the fight to count towards it is almost certainly a matter of poor programming rather than intent. Counting the number of classes represented on the hatelist right now is easy. Keeping track of it even after people die and resetting it properly on wipes etc would require a (small) system, which would have been beyond Wiz at the time he put it in. Would not be hard to make it actually reward you for bringing a sub-optimal raid setup rather than for going after fights so trivial or easily survivable that you wouldn't need an optimal setup in the first place.
Dunno anything about spires, not my thing.
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
It would be really cool if it could be changed to check class diversity on engage rather than on death. My biggest issue is that it rewards players extra for trivial fights where everyone lives. On really hard fights that challenge your guild, you almost always have some players die. Some fights are even designed such that its nearly impossible to beat with everyone still alive. Having these more challenging fights (where you might wipe multiple times before winning) result in almost 0 bonus loot chance because people always die, while a trivial fight has a good chance at bonus loot just seems counter productive, it encourages backfarming and altfarming, and discourages bringing new players to fights, or trying new/challenging content.
Pecannius
Dalayan Elder
Agree with Zaela and Silosobi.
As it is now, for any given raid, even without the check for bonus loot at the end, there's much more incentive to bring in a dusty, t12 ringer than someone on tier or slightly below because it increases the chance of winning and makes the fight easier. The bonus loot check done when people are alive after the fight only benefits guilds that box in ringers more. Imo, any loot bonus should favor the people that are doing challenging content instead of bringing in ringers to farm.
This issue is especially relevant for Spires because the bonus loot can ONLY been seen if the requirement is met. Which means doing challenging content is even more discouraged.
As it is now, for any given raid, even without the check for bonus loot at the end, there's much more incentive to bring in a dusty, t12 ringer than someone on tier or slightly below because it increases the chance of winning and makes the fight easier. The bonus loot check done when people are alive after the fight only benefits guilds that box in ringers more. Imo, any loot bonus should favor the people that are doing challenging content instead of bringing in ringers to farm.
This issue is especially relevant for Spires because the bonus loot can ONLY been seen if the requirement is met. Which means doing challenging content is even more discouraged.