Yeah nwaij(exodus) has never logged in at like 10am his time(euro time) to kill gloom
Or snipe a key mob in spires
or stay up till 4-5am his(exodus) time(euro) to kill a mob(s)
or sit on PE for 24 hours (did that)
NEVER HAVE WE GONE THE EXTRA MILE
Spawn timers!
- Thread starter Udeni
- Start date
Yeah nwaij(exodus) has never logged in at like 10am his time(euro time) to kill gloom
Or snipe a key mob in spires
or stay up till 4-5am his(exodus) time(euro) to kill a mob(s)
or sit on PE for 24 hours (did that)
NEVER HAVE WE GONE THE EXTRA MILE
Tarutao
Staff Emeritus
Just speaking numerically, a less random system without the "or minus" in the "plus or minus X hours" may have merit.
Technically it is already just plus.
Also, I wasn't aware this was just another "change the whole game because Exo and CW happen to be in competition right now" spawn timers thread. Didn't we just rebuff that like a week ago?
CW's argument is simple, and Solo nailed it. The problem is the 4.5 day spawn timer. With 4.5 day spawn timers + 0-6 hours in place, mobs are always going to spawn during the Exo raid window no matter when they are killed, whereas a flat 4-day or 5-day spawn timer would offer CW a 29% chance of having mobs spawn during our raid window.
Since Exo has a 17 hour window for mobs to spawn while it's the middle of the night in the US, they'll still pick 71% of all available spawns on this tier. That's perfectly reasonable. What we're saying is that there's currently no possibility for mobs to spawn during CW's 7-hour raid window, and that seems unfair.
CW isn't asking for a promise that mobs will spawn during our raid window. We're asking for a chance to have mobs spawn during our raid window.
I think they're just using CW and exo as example template guilds as a comparison for US and euro guilds. Or at least I hope so.
From this discussion, I think the best thing to do is make it so its flat day repops with the +0-6 hrs, as this would always just keep pushing the spawn forward by a couple of hours each time, instead of keeping it in the same timeframe of killing each time it spawns. This would put a rotation on which timezones get an advantage for when it pops, which would generally help the euro/US difference IMO.
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
If the timer is 4.5 days + 0 to 12 hours, that really is an entirely euro favored respawn timer.
Since mobs usually die between 12PM and 12 AM est, they will respawn between 12 AM and 12 PM, which is after US raid time and before Europe's start. This literally means US guilds would have to wait up ultra late and just hope that mobs spawn early, or every single mob will respawn for europe raids.
I don't know exactly what the re spawn is, but there are respawn timers that would give europe an advantage even bigger than it naturally is.
3 Days + 0 - 2 days would provide Europe a 71% chance at spawns and US a 29% chace
4 Days + 0 - 6 hours would give Europe a bit over 50% and US a bit under 50%
I remember when Ethereal was progressing through The Well PR was endlessly cockblocking us, and the timer had the zone spawning for them the last ~10 times in a row. We finally just called and woke up 2/3 of our raid force at 6 AM one morning, which was actually a kinda fun and memorable experience, but something like that shouldn't be expected.
Since mobs usually die between 12PM and 12 AM est, they will respawn between 12 AM and 12 PM, which is after US raid time and before Europe's start. This literally means US guilds would have to wait up ultra late and just hope that mobs spawn early, or every single mob will respawn for europe raids.
I don't know exactly what the re spawn is, but there are respawn timers that would give europe an advantage even bigger than it naturally is.
3 Days + 0 - 2 days would provide Europe a 71% chance at spawns and US a 29% chace
4 Days + 0 - 6 hours would give Europe a bit over 50% and US a bit under 50%
I remember when Ethereal was progressing through The Well PR was endlessly cockblocking us, and the timer had the zone spawning for them the last ~10 times in a row. We finally just called and woke up 2/3 of our raid force at 6 AM one morning, which was actually a kinda fun and memorable experience, but something like that shouldn't be expected.
Some things are worth noting about the current system since people are trying to argue from incorrect numbers.
Some raid mobs have a 4 day base respawn, others have 4.5. There isn't really any consistency about it as far as I know, maybe that should change.
Randomization is 0 to 1/10th of the base respawn, which is either going to be 0 seconds to 9.6 hours or 0 seconds to 10.8 hours, never 0 to 6. However, there is a second level of randomization which (if I'm wrapping my head around it correctly) weights the additional time toward 0.
Some raid mobs have a 4 day base respawn, others have 4.5. There isn't really any consistency about it as far as I know, maybe that should change.
Randomization is 0 to 1/10th of the base respawn, which is either going to be 0 seconds to 9.6 hours or 0 seconds to 10.8 hours, never 0 to 6. However, there is a second level of randomization which (if I'm wrapping my head around it correctly) weights the additional time toward 0.
Zapple
Dalayan Elder
On this subject there are some lower tier raid zones that have ~7 day timers. Torment, Water, Nightmare seem to come to mind. I don't really do these except for quest items like most of the rest of the server's raiding population and obviously this has nothing to do with the great guild drama that currently plays out over tier 11-12 content, but it would be nice if there was a uniform spawn timer on raid content.
booster
Dalayan Master
log in from work, they wont care.
Tarutao
Staff Emeritus
Well, it's about changing the respawn modulo 1 day. By having mobs spawn in the "half-day cycle", their respawn (from a European guild raid kill) as far as time of day is nearly guaranteed to be after the American guild raids end but in time for the European guild raid times on the next day.
The argument for the 5 days + 0-6 hours is that the mob would spawn a bit later by time of day than it was killed, creating a more looping effect. The guilds that would benefit the most from this change would then be the ones whose individual raid times are the longest rather than earliest.
This information about the randomizing effect being X time plus up to 10% of X makes the 5 days + 0-6 hours or 4 days + 0-6 hours concept seem not to be an option.
I suppose I'll need to talk to Zaela, see what she knows and will be willing to tell me, and see if I can perform a critical math and find the best middle ground.
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
4 Days is probably the best we can do without altering the formula.
You could set a 3 day, 21 hour timer so that there are ~6 hour past the 4 day mark, but I think that the second randomization is significant enough for that to create problems. If a guild got lucky, a mob could keep re-spawning at the 3.21-4.0 mark indefinitely
I say the second randomization is significant because when we I was farming emberflow hardcore, which is set to 3 days, mobs would almost always spawn within the first hour or two of the timer, and only a few times did we have to wait up to the 6-7 hour mark.
A 4 Day timer could give a guild a few kills in a row, and it could also potentially skip entirely over their raid time if their luck is really poor, but overall it will do the best job of benefiting raid duration over timezone. By the same logic, any raid timer on an exact day interval would be better than something in-between.
I suppose an exact spawntime of 4 days + (2-6) hours would actually be the most "fair". Basically x hours + however long it takes you to kill said mob divided into however long you raid = the number of times you can kill said mob before it slips into another timezone, then they get to do the same thing, but I don't like the idea of exact timers and raid mobs getting planned out that hardcore. (also pre claims would be more viable and thus more problematic)
You could set a 3 day, 21 hour timer so that there are ~6 hour past the 4 day mark, but I think that the second randomization is significant enough for that to create problems. If a guild got lucky, a mob could keep re-spawning at the 3.21-4.0 mark indefinitely
I say the second randomization is significant because when we I was farming emberflow hardcore, which is set to 3 days, mobs would almost always spawn within the first hour or two of the timer, and only a few times did we have to wait up to the 6-7 hour mark.
A 4 Day timer could give a guild a few kills in a row, and it could also potentially skip entirely over their raid time if their luck is really poor, but overall it will do the best job of benefiting raid duration over timezone. By the same logic, any raid timer on an exact day interval would be better than something in-between.
I suppose an exact spawntime of 4 days + (2-6) hours would actually be the most "fair". Basically x hours + however long it takes you to kill said mob divided into however long you raid = the number of times you can kill said mob before it slips into another timezone, then they get to do the same thing, but I don't like the idea of exact timers and raid mobs getting planned out that hardcore. (also pre claims would be more viable and thus more problematic)
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