Should SoD allow Zhak to return to SoD?

Ravio Lee said:
A macro-quester trying to reclaim his accounts is going to say the same thing Zhak is. He's gonna say he won't repeat the actions for which he was banned. The only difference between the 2 is that, for most people, they're coming from a clean slate aside the initial ban. Zhak, on the other hand, has a long history of repeating his actions.
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This doesn't make any sense at all. Zhak's offenses compounded into a banning, the hypothetical MQ user's single offense was great enough to warrant him a banning from it alone. You can't really claim that one has a clean slate compared to the other if you take away all of the reasons the MQ person got banned and leave most of the reasons on Zhak's resume'.

Ravio Lee said:
I'm generally with Botie on this, why should he get another shot because of his celebrity status? How many other people would be permitted to go to the server population to plead their case for consideration on a banning matter? Can anyone just apologize and promise to be good and be allowed back?
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You and Botie are the only two making a big deal of his celebrity status. I don't see anyone else posting "bring him back because I recognize his name/like his fomelo." Half the people here that say he should be given another shot have been antagonized by him, maybe more. The reason he should be given another chance is because, honestly, I don't know how many people think he should've been banned ingame in the first place. Forums maybe :p
 
Lesson learned on the trolling. This isn't a case of someone breaking game rules for their benefit as with most bans concerning plat duping and macroquesting, this is just a case of attitude getting out of hand over time.
Other 'mouthing off' bans are from nobodies who come in and expect to run the show from the start, throwing out unfounded GM corruption accusations and personal attacks against wiz. Zhak on the other hand is a long time player who knows how the game runs and offers his opinions and criticism, even though they often get combined with sarcasm and trolling.

I was in the same boat and was allowed back in the forums, slap his wrist and let him back.
 
Jun said:
This doesn't make any sense at all. Zhak's offenses compounded into a banning, the hypothetical MQ user's single offense was great enough to warrant him a banning from it alone. You can't really claim that one has a clean slate compared to the other if you take away all of the reasons the MQ person got banned and leave most of the reasons on Zhak's resume'.

You and Botie are the only two making a big deal of his celebrity status. I don't see anyone else posting "bring him back because I recognize his name/like his fomelo." Half the people here that say he should be given another shot have been antagonized by him, maybe more. The reason he should be given another chance is because, honestly, I don't know how many people think he should've been banned ingame in the first place. Forums maybe :p
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Actually, if you remember, Zhak has been banned 3 times and jailed beyond that. He has been constant and consistent in his actions and has had numerous chances... I can safely say 90% of the server or more would not get the same opportunities. You honestly believe it fair that he should get yet another shot when it is rare for most people to get a second?

His celebrity status is the reason this thread exists in the first place. Why should anyone be given the option to appeal to the rest of the users (many of whom he knows from years past or who depend on him for high end farmed drops) in consideration for his ban being lifted? I think we may be speaking 2 different languages :psyduck:.
 
I don't believe he should have another chance. It seems to me that he has done more than enough to warrant a banning, and I think that this thread alone shows that his celebrity status is the major factor getting him back on the server. If he is allowed back, is there any reason all others banned shouldn't be allowed back? I have a banned account. I'm a pretty nice guy, I help out when I can, I'm positive in /ooc, and I've never done anything negative on the level Zhak has. I'm not trying to be a dick here, but why should my account not be unlocked if Zhak is?
 
Ravio Lee said:
Actually, if you remember, Zhak has been banned 3 times and jailed beyond that. He has been constant and consistent in his actions and has had numerous chances...
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He was banned once for unfounded evidence that he was cheating based on another Emu, and another by Wiz and Melwin because he was obnoxious when he was 51 (Ive heard bannings were more common back then, not to mention he definitely patched things up with Melwin.)

Ravio Lee said:
I can safely say 90% of the server or more would not get the same opportunities. You honestly believe it fair that he should get yet another shot when it is rare for most people to get a second?
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It's safe to say anything when you pull it out of thin air.

Ravio Lee said:
His celebrity status is the reason this thread exists in the first place.
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Actually it exists because Zhak made it...

EnlitynShd said:
I'm not trying to be a dick here, but why should my account not be unlocked if Zhak is?
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It's hard to answer that without knowing why you were banned.


Anyway this is gonna start going in circles, I vote let him play, that's that.
 
Ravio Lee said:
Why should anyone be given the option to appeal to the rest of the users (many of whom he knows from years past or who depend on him for high end farmed drops) in consideration for his ban being lifted? I think we may be speaking 2 different languages :psyduck:.
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I don't think you really know how many people have had forum/game bans lifted.

The post states why there even is a post, staff is split and wiz is on the fence; he left the decision to the server.
 
iaeolan said:
I don't think you really know how many people have had forum/game bans lifted.

The post states why there even is a post, staff is split and wiz is on the fence; he left the decision to the server.
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TBH, I don't know how many people have bans lifted. I am, however, disappointed that this is the direction it would go after this ban. IMO, this is not a decision for the server - It never has been.
 
Jun said:
Actually it exists because Zhak made it...
It's hard to answer that without knowing why you were banned.


Anyway this is gonna start going in circles, I vote let him play, that's that.
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Actually it would seem the thread exists because Zhak is being considered for unbanning based on the input of the server players. Obviously he made it, but come on, don't try to be a smartass just to attack anybody else who believes he should remained banned. Like I said, I believe he should remain banned if others have to remain banned, who have no previous offenses. All I'm asking for it consistency in the decisions.
 
Why did you get banned? You can't compare bannings if the offenses are different. And I wasn't being a smartass or attacking, the fact is is that saying this thread exists due to his celebrity status would imply that Wiz gives a shit about that, which is untrue.
 
Which you are basing on what?

This thread is still open... Zhak gave the distinct impression that his indecisiveness is the precursor to this thread.
 
Just from this page, I see "staff is split and wiz is on the fence; he left the decision to the server." If such isn't true I don't mean to imply it is, but it seems to be at least somewhat relevant I was banned for being connected to a friend of mine who was banned for exploiting. I'm not here to argue that ban, so I'd rather it not be brought up again here, but if Zhak is allowed back I believe persons banned should (reasonably) be allowed the same chance. I'd honestly rather see the ban remain in place, partially because most of what I've seen of Zhak has not been positive, and I don't believe he should be allowed more chances than other folks.
 
I'm basing it on weighing "Wiz wanting our input" versus "Wiz giving Zhak or anybody else special treatment due to social standing."

Now before you yell and say it is special treatment, other people have had bans lifted without any request or approval from the community. Personally, I'd rather have threads like this when the staff are unsure on whether or not someone should be given another chance. In this case, Zhak was banned for antagonizing a lot of the same people who think he shouldn't be banned. I think that is a good enough reason on its own to allow him back, and shows that most people are mature enough to deal with it.

Think about it, really. How many people can you name that have been banned for this kind of thing? I can't think of any that are still banned, I can think of plenty who had forum access revoked etc. If the banning happened to be from cheating ingame etc, of course the public should have no say in it... cheaters can't police themselves. But since his banning is entirely based on him and the public, of course we should have a say.
 
There is a HUGE difference between trolling on the forums and IRC and exploiting/cheating in game. If you cannot see this there is no hope for you.
 
Widan said:
There is a HUGE difference between trolling on the forums and IRC and exploiting/cheating in game. If you cannot see this there is no hope for you.
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I hope that wasn't aimed at me.
 
EnlitynShd said:
I'm not here to argue that ban, so I'd rather it not be brought up again here, but if Zhak is allowed back I believe persons banned should (reasonably) be allowed the same chance.
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Terrible argument, exploiting is just one of those holy shit obvious things that you get banned for... being a jerk really isn't. I'd rather have 100 trash talkers than one lame exploiter who could potentially ruin the server.
 
Well, we're clearly going to see this differently so I'll go ahead and move on for the time being. I can see where you're coming from Jun... I suppose I just wear it differently. Zhak's been a public prick to many people, and leopard's don't generally change their spots. I think it's just a matter of time before it happens again, and don't really have a problem with letting him come back and eventually proving people naive; it still comes back to the fact that he's had more chances than most people ever will. When does it end? Of course everyone will say 'Now', but we'll see.
 
EnlitynShd said:
Just from this page, I see "staff is split and wiz is on the fence; he left the decision to the server." If such isn't true I don't mean to imply it is, but it seems to be at least somewhat relevant I was banned for being connected to a friend of mine who was banned for exploiting. I'm not here to argue that ban, so I'd rather it not be brought up again here, but if Zhak is allowed back I believe persons banned should (reasonably) be allowed the same chance. I'd honestly rather see the ban remain in place, partially because most of what I've seen of Zhak has not been positive, and I don't believe he should be allowed more chances than other folks.
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Zhak said:
He [Wiz] said that the staff is torn and he's [Wiz] really not sure what to do.
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It's really about just appealing your case in a reasonable fashion to the staff. Some of us needed to have a conversation with wiz, others had to write letters of apology (all for attitude relevant things, not any exploits). I don't want to stir the pot, but giovani is someone out of the spotlight and had his ban repealed, so this isn't about popularity.
 
Jun said:
Terrible argument, exploiting is just one of those holy shit obvious things that you get banned for... being a jerk really isn't. I'd rather have 100 trash talkers than one lame exploiter who could potentially ruin the server.
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If you don't think he should have been banned, thats obviously your decisions. Taking a look back at some of the things Wiz said when he was banned:

"Couple this with all the times I've left you off with a slap on the wrist for things like training and trolling other players, and I've come to one conclusion. It's time for you to go. - Wiz)."

"It's really pretty simple. I'm tired of cutting slack to people whose only real quality is that they've been playing forever. Zhak should have been banned eight times over. "

"Zhak broke the rules, again, and again, and again, and got away with it again, and again, and again. This was just the inevitable waiting to happen."

This doesn't sound like "being a jerk" to me. Wiz made a firm stance in banning Zhak, and just because he claims he won't do them again doesn't seem like reason enough to let him back. I really don't care if you'd rather have 100 trash-talkers on the server rather than letting someone back who, say, sold an item that was worth a few platinum more than it should have been, I'd rather play a server with neither those 100 trash-talkers or the exploiter.
 
I just don’t understand this in anyway. There have already been how many posts regarding this person and the things they have done both good and bad for the server. By pushing content and gear to the next level he has advanced the server but at the same time wrapped up most of the serious players in an on and off debate about his actions and what should he has said. I don’t have an opinion either way but I think it is a bit ridiculous to have thread after thread about being banned or not banned. I remember reading the post from Wiz about his ban and someone saying it will only be a matter of time until he is attempting to play again. I don’t think it sets a very good example for new players joining the server or those who have always bit their tongue and followed the rules no matter what, and just because this guy has put in a lot of hours he is above everyone else. I really don’t care what happens and for me and about 70% of the percent of the server this will have no affect at all but I just don’t think it is fair for those who always follow the rules or have been banned and are still banned.
 
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