Shaman as a healer.

I wouldnt be opposed to removing the slow on runic1, especially the attack speed slow.

I just don't see the real world scenarios where shamans are so lacking. Every raid wants a shaman. I've even done lots of t10+ fights with two shamans. Shamans (read: Zurkka) have been on the first kills of essentially every mob in the game, even 6 man. When 4.3 was on tier we pretty much considered Zurkka necessary to beat the fight. Hell, Zurkka has solo healed 2m/hr citadel groups.

Yes, if you attempt to use a shaman to group heal, then you're gonna have a bad time. What other scenarios do you find the class lacking?
 
@snake
Sadly the community here is totally biased toward Druids,happily ignoring all the great utility
Druids get along with their healing abilities matching almost that of a Cleric while repeating again and again the same old record about how great slow is.
I retired my 250 AAs shaman after seeing newbie Druids with crap gear and no AAs to speak of laughing at my healing abilities in Elds or Rust.

I recommened that old thread where we already had all of this:
http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=22222
 
@snake
Sadly the community here is totally biased...

Can only hope the Devs can see past this bias...

Removing the slow from runic 1 would certainly help the spell get used for something besides healing the caster group. But It should also gain a recast at the time, something around 18seconds at minimum. Why, you ask? Because the spell already heals for more for tick than the druid or cleric (blows the cleric away, actually).

See you guys just dont get it. The group hot is not an awesome group heal that will make the Shaman able to heal what the Druid (or Cleric) can. (Will keep comparing to the Druid, cause he is the closest healer type to the Shaman).
Again, it all comes down to simple math. How much DPS can you counter....

Runic: Spiritual Attuning:
950 Mana
6.6 second cast time
500 a tick v2 group heal, 4 ticks (60 AE range)
H/S*: 73.26 - 93.9, H/M: 2.11

Circle of Vitality:
680 Mana
5.45 second cast time (no recast, just the usual 2.5 seconds.)
1780 v2 group heal (100 AE range)
H/S**: 247.67, H/M: 2.62.

As you can see, the Druid can with the regular group heal counter atleast 250% more DPS than the Shaman hot (and as much as 325% more dps if the Shaman gets unlucky with how long from spell land to first tick).

"APPLES AND ORANGES!"
Right, i forgot, the Shaman spell is a HoT, the most inefficient heal type in the game (source Bango, no idea what he base it on), so its much worse than just being able to out heal the Shaman big time...


Anyway lets compare the Druid group hot with the Shaman one, here is the Druid one:

Circle of Soothing:
725 Mana
5 second cast time
420 a tick v2 group heal, 6 ticks (75 AE range)
H/S***: 62.53 - 73.47, H/M: 3.48.

The Shaman HoT will be able to counter little over 20% more damage, but look at the Heal per Mana. Soothing is 3.48 compared to Attunings 2.11. Thats well over 60% more mana efficient.

So yes, the Druid cant counter as much DPS with his hot as the Shaman can, but with his group heal, he can out heal him atleast 250%.
But the Druid HoT still has its use as its 60% more mana efficient (and over 30% more mana efficient than his own group heal).

AND THE SPELL IS ALREADY IN THE GAME!
Its just not worth casting, because it slows and snares the group, and for the little healing it does and for its high mana cost, its basicly useless.



*Heal/Sec is a little tricky, cause the first tick can land after 0 seconds, or as much as 6 seconds. So cast time + 18 seconds to cast time + 24 seconds.
Cast time with it is also tricky, atm its a buff, so its cast time is actually 3.3 seconds. If the snare and slow was removed i think it would just be a heal, and cast time would be 5,676 with CSI 7.
But just to illustrate "worst case scenario" i have calculated it as 3.3 second cast time.

** Since im comparing a hot running over time, its only natural to add recast to Circle of Vitality, 4.687 second cast time with CSI 7 + 2.5 sec recast = 7.187.
If we just look at 1 spell cast, it would be 1780/4.687 = 379.77 H/S.
This would mean that if we look at ability to burst counter, well the Druid may have healed 1780 while the Shaman is still waitig for his first tick...

***Heal/Sec is a little tricky, cause the first tick can land after 0 seconds, or as much as 6 seconds. So cast time + 30 seconds to cast time + 36 seconds.
Cast time with CSI 7 is 4.3 seconds.


P.S.
Looking at the Cleric group HoT, it could use a tune up, its pretty aweful. But if the Shaman R1 was fix'd, most the time they wouldnt care, cause they would prefer Shm>Dru>Pal doing the group hotting anyway. Oh and their relic group heal, its pretty amazing, H/S: 454.55, H/M: 3.42. Now thats a group heal! (with CSI 7 and 2.5 sec recast included)

P.P.S
Druid R1 healing 6 targets is H/S: 438.6, H/M: 3.22. Not to shappy, over 450% more healing per sec than Shaman r1... (with CSI 7 and 2.5 sec recast included)
 
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Hey Kedrin, why don't we get together and out-heal snake. *rolls eyes*

What you don't get Snake, is that group healing has NEVER been a shammy's forte. They bring utility to offset this. But, to say a shammy can't heal an xp group as well as a same tier cleric or druid is laughable at best. If everybody in your group is needing healing, all the time, the problem probably isn't the healer, it's the group. (Barring the likes of fun mobs with aoe's like BQ geomancers.)
I say again, I am not opposed to the slow component being dropped from the runic, but I don't think a shammies focus should ever be main group healer. And yes, the cleric group HoT is fairly weak by comparison, I was mildly surprised by that.
 
Hey Kedrin, why don't we get together and out-heal snake. *rolls eyes*

What you don't get Snake, is that group healing has NEVER been a shammy's forte. They bring utility to offset this. But, to say a shammy can't heal an xp group as well as a same tier cleric or druid is laughable at best. If everybody in your group is needing healing, all the time, the problem probably isn't the healer, it's the group. (Barring the likes of fun mobs with aoe's like BQ geomancers.)
I say again, I am not opposed to the slow component being dropped from the runic, but I don't think a shammies focus should ever be main group healer. And yes, the cleric group HoT is fairly weak by comparison, I was mildly surprised by that.

The cleric ghot's lower base heal is offset by the fact that it is the quickest to cast as well as by the cleric's much higher %crit.
 
What you don't get Snake, is that group healing has NEVER been a shammy's forte. They bring utility to offset this.

...

I say again, I am not opposed to the slow component being dropped from the runic, but I don't think a shammies focus should ever be main group healer.

Dude, go read my posts again. I never said i wanted the Shaman to be able to heal anywhere near the Druid or Shaman. I also have showen how the Shaman HoT in no way pose any threat to the druids or clerics position as THE group healers, but atleast the Shaman could help / heal easy stuff.


Oh and yeah, Shaman single target heal per second is so low, that Ranger + Bst comes with in 25% of his capability... I know its a slap in the face, but numbers dont lie. If im doing the numbers wrong, well feel free to show me.
 
Dude, go read my posts again. I never said i wanted the Shaman to be able to heal anywhere near the Druid or Shaman. I also have showen how the Shaman HoT in no way pose any threat to the druids or clerics position as THE group healers, but atleast the Shaman could help / heal easy stuff.


Oh and yeah, Shaman single target heal per second is so low, that Ranger + Bst comes with in 25% of his capability... I know its a slap in the face, but numbers dont lie. If im doing the numbers wrong, well feel free to show me.

If you get a ranger, a beastlord, a rogue with a heal clicky, and a necromancer, they will come close to within 25% of the healing of a druid on a single target. For this reason, I believe druids should be buffed to be closer to the healing power of a cleric.
 
Did not read thread.

Will not read thread (healing is bullshit anyway, Wold can look at it or something). No offense to robots/snake/whoever is posting most.

My question is: can I adapt the necro caster pet AI code I've been working on recently into a healer AI pet and slap that on someone yet?
 
The cleric ghot's lower base heal is offset by the fact that it is the quickest to cast as well as by the cleric's much higher %crit.

Wait what? What ghot are you talking about? The only one i know has a terrible cast time too (5 seconds on ghot, 4 seconds on g heal, for a cleric its terrible).

I think perhaps that the Devs dont care much for the Cleric as a HoT healer, not one relic / runic / quest spell is a HoT.
 
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Did not read thread.

Will not read thread (healing is bullshit anyway, Wold can look at it or something). No offense to robots/snake/whoever is posting most.

My question is: can I adapt the necro caster pet AI code I've been working on recently into a healer AI pet and slap that on someone yet?

Cleric R2 comes to mind.
 
I swear, you make threads like these just to up your post count or something. And Rad was trying to point out your comparison is worthless, you just missed it. As said before, apples and oranges, except that it more like grapefruit and grapes.
Now excuse me, me and a ranger are going to go pretend we are healers for an xp group (or a raid tank, lol). I am certain this will end well, because by your comparison, we are almost as equipped as you are to do that. No idea where the dps we need to kill the mob will come from, but hey, whatever. *rolls eyes*

@Zae: Obviously, the healing pet should go to the shammy, give it a group heal and nothing but, of course. ;)
 
The OP wants shamans to be able to solo heal 6mans and raid groups and this is probably not going to happen ever. I said this in the last thread but every healer runic spell except for Cascading Vim is horrible and should probably be changed or adjusted in some way. Well, later.
 
The OP wants shamans to be able to solo heal 6mans and raid groups and this is probably not going to happen ever. I said this in the last thread but every healer runic spell except for Cascading Vim is horrible and should probably be changed or adjusted in some way. Well, later.

Welcome to the thread, now go read it.
 
Welcome to the thread, now go read it.

No need, I'll sum it up for him.

Shaman healing needs buffs aaaaaa
*Posts 20 comparisons of shaman, cleric, and druid heals*
No really guys I don't want shamans to be comparable to druids and clerics
*Posts 20 more heal comparisons with clerics and druids*
You guys aren't reading the thread waaaa
 
Valorion, I honestly think the issue here is the Shaman class does not suit your playstyle, which is too bad because clearly you (and your guild) have invested a lot of time on Zanman judging by your fomelo.

If you wish to continue paying SoD as a healer, maybe roll a Cleric or Druid or take over a friend's Cleric or Druid.
 
What was the reasoning for that change anyways? I can't even recall and can't be bothered to go search for a thread.

As I remember, a "dev who shall remain nameless" decided that the cast time was too fast for such a powerful spell and this would introduce more risk on engage or something. Because it would take the shaman longer to spam archaic until it landed.
 
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