rogues, my 2cp

Eldorath said:
Actually I'd love to see more parses comparing shadowknight to paladin dps. Shadowknights do get some cool fast cast nukes and lifetaps that add to their dps while paladins pretty much just get stuns afaik. I'm not sure what is implemented as far as melee that is supposed to make paladins more dps than shadowknights, anyone seen any reference to that?
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The DPS numbers for Finster are just about the exact same I have for Jose (although I'm usually aux tanking with a 1hander). I can't say I've parsed vs a well equiped Paladin, but SK dps isn't terrible at all. I'd honestly say nerf the spear line, or change it to another spell line (very resistable AE stat debuffs ala Wave of Enfeeblement leap to mind)
 
Eldorath said:
Actually I'd love to see more parses comparing shadowknight to paladin dps. Shadowknights do get some cool fast cast nukes and lifetaps that add to their dps while paladins pretty much just get stuns afaik. I'm not sure what is implemented as far as melee that is supposed to make paladins more dps than shadowknights, anyone seen any reference to that?
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I couldn't find the original thread discussing paladin changes, it was in the BD forum and probably got removed. One thing I do know is they added an innate chance for pallies to crit starting at level 1.

What I could find was http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/forum/index.php?topic=9156.msg62810#msg62810

Wiz said:
In terms of game mechanics, there quite simply isn't room for 3 "low damage, high tanking" classes in the game. Most of the raid game is about DPS, and with their useful support + useful DPS + useful tanking the Paladin will be more reminiscent of the Monk/Ranger classes, and generally never be superfluous on a raid.

I am going to look into ways to create more need for tanks in general, and look over SK aggro, but Paladins are SUPPOSED to deal more damage than Shadowknights and Warriors now - deal with it.
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I don't know if the view on Paladin's has changed (it's been a year since that post) but maybe a boost for them is needed or a nerf to SK DPS.
 
I should parse Balthor one of these days. From the figures I've heard for Balthor and Jose, they're pretty comparable in DPS against regular mobs, while Balthor's DPS against undead skyrockets. I don't have numbers to back this up, though.
 
Yeah, but unfortunately the whole undead bonus is essentially worthless in the raid game. AFAIK the only undead raid mob is Earth Terror (along with a few scattered trash, but no named), and paladins don't even get to melee on him :p

Not that I'd really like to see more undead raid targets, just because people get really concerned about killing them at night because you get hit doubly with the buff to undead and the nerf to heals.
 
The only boss fights with undead I can add to the list are some in misery, the boss fights require you to kill large numbers of undeads, though I can't recall if the actual boss mobs themselves are undead.
 
robopirateninja said:
The only boss fights with undead I can add to the list are some in misery, the boss fights require you to kill large numbers of undeads, though I can't recall if the actual boss mobs themselves are undead.
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First and Second Watcher are not undead, but HoS might be.

Should have had Praethor check when we were down there during double EXP week.
 
Eldorath said:
Actually I'd love to see more parses comparing shadowknight to paladin dps.
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Pally vs SK vs War DPS is on my list of things-to-do as well, it that is any consolation. Precisely because I've seen these numbers that don't make sense.
 
Allielyn said:
Pally vs SK vs War DPS is on my list of things-to-do as well, it that is any consolation. Precisely because I've seen these numbers that don't make sense.
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seeing as this thread was ment to be more about rogs... any idea if anything will be changing for them anytime soonish?
 
Probably not. The key complaint was that rogues do (did) less dps than rangers. The solution found was to nerf ranger dps. Rogues are kings of melee dps once again, and now everyone (but rangers) can rejoice.
 
Allielyn said:
Probably not. The key complaint was that rogues do (did) less dps than rangers. The solution found was to nerf ranger dps. Rogues are kings of melee dps once again, and now everyone (but rangers) can rejoice.
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i still view rampage and whirlwind mobs as kinda an issue.. either that rampage should be reduced to 1 target since raid size was reduced in half... or that rogues, being masters at staying out of sight, would have an innate chance to avoid these attacks from behind...
 
Old timer story:

Once upon a time.... in a land of lots of snow and few zones. Backstab had really long range. Long enough that Rogues could backstab out of rampage and Whirlwind range. It was pretty cool. You couldnt melee, but it was something.

It was changed.

Now you just get a backup healer, or you get a bow. There are some nice ones. Most are rog usable. Theres even some nifty throwing axes.
Be creative!

Rampage and Whirlwind are made to be harsh on all melee (not just rogues). Just like high resist or completely immune to magic mobs are harsh on casters.
 
khador said:
i still view rampage and whirlwind mobs as kinda an issue.. either that rampage should be reduced to 1 target since raid size was reduced in half... or that rogues, being masters at staying out of sight, would have an innate chance to avoid these attacks from behind...
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or make evade(/attack off /hide "you have ducked out of combat or w/e") drop rogues down the rampage list
 
What's up w/ the bard dps dropping in the 50s? Can't tell me lack of DDs and /s 4 is that much of a dps dropoff
 
iaeolan said:
What's up w/ the bard dps dropping in the 50s? Can't tell me lack of DDs and /s 4 is that much of a dps dropoff
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Although I cannot speak for Allielyn or Regasin, my melee/dd dps only went below 100 once and that was during the Tansa fight. Since I was boxing both Sald and Thizik there are reasons why Thizik's dps is lower, but I'm not going to say why because of obvious reasons.
 
Some fights you don't end up doing damage on the main boss the entire time. It's a pretty crazy idea, I know - but there you have it.

I'd say more, but I can't give out strat leaks!
 
Tryfaen said:
or make evade(/attack off /hide "you have ducked out of combat or w/e") drop rogues down the rampage list
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i have noticed i dont even have to be one of the first FIVE to engage to get a ramp slot... its pretty ridiculous on how it works.. ive engaged at 70% and still had rampage over a few others... anyone care to explain how this works?

also, if the rog hide could drop u from a top slot thatd be pretty awesome... but with ramp hitting 2 + main tank its not something ill get to take advantage of very often =/ still would be nice.
 
well. . . if the other people in the top 5 aren't in rampage range, then it goes to whomever IS in rampage range. Since the rogue is pretty much guaranteed to be in rampage range, then there you have it.
 
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