Review for Necro's

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Hostyle

Dalayan Beginner
Shurley -

I'd like to throw out there that Necromancers need a serious revamping/modification attributed to their spells/abilities. Not only I, but many Necromancers alike feel the class is way below par. I'd like to suggest that Necro maybe should have their taps doubled in damage and Duration taps Doubled as well, which would make them a sufficant source for DPS considering they have no further group/raid enhancing abilities besides a new minor raid mob weakening effect attached to their spells. They really need this because their sustained dps isn't amazing considering the mana each DoT costs, their pets just plain suck, and really have minor uses in raids. I'm just throwing suggestions out there, I'm just really looking for a review for the Necromancer class.
 
Just a question...

Were you not aware of the DoT weaking effect (see Here) or was this not what you were looking for...
 
I wish I could do 500 damage a tick for 500 mana. Or even feign death or make others feign, or hell.... how about res'ing someone?

I was also under the impression that the mana giving taken away was temporary for balance reasons.
 
You may have missed the front page, but I'll reiterate here: Mana pumping was removed so that necros can be made into a more enjoyable class than "lol this guy sits here and keeps the cleric targeted". With it now removed, changes can be made to improve the class in other areas.

The simple fact is, if it had stayed in in any form, the class would have always been viewed as nothing but a mana pump.
 
dbum said:
Just a question...

Were you not aware of the DoT weaking effect (see Here) or was this not what you were looking for...
Check, " they have no further group/raid enhancing abilities besides a new minor raid mob weakening effect attached to their spells." Read my post before you flame it.

You may have missed the front page, but I'll reiterate here: Mana pumping was removed so that necros can be made into a more enjoyable class than "lol this guy sits here and keeps the cleric targeted". With it now removed, changes can be made to improve the class in other areas.
Cool, don't care thats why I made this post is to improve them in another area.

I wish I could do 500 damage a tick for 500 mana. Or even feign death or make others feign, or hell.... how about res'ing someone?

I was also under the impression that the mana giving taken away was temporary for balance reasons.

My wizard does 3800 dmg in 400ish mana in 5 seconds. tia. Also roots, snares, ports, evacs, and.... most importantly rbow which adds sick raid dps.

Sometimes I poop on mobs.

Does that count?
Probably the most insightful post out of them all.
 
Just another little note for a suggestion to go on. As I see it, Necro's are the bosses of DoT's as Wizards are to DDs, and Clerics are to heals, this in mind, maybe we could give them a Critical DoT tick. An example of this would be (say your DoT hits for 500) 500, 500, 500, 1000, 500 etc. Maybe give them an Ultimate DoT hit, same as Wizards.
 
And it's already been mentioned that necros can stack 300ish in dps from a few spells. I'm not sure why you mention the wizard part. And since we're at it, why don't we add crits to rain spells?
 
Shatterblast said:
And since we're at it, why don't we add crits to rain spells?

Uh, there are already crits on rain spells.

I've noticed that my wizard is way more fun to play and is a more effective fighter than my necromancer. My necro was lvl 52 when I started the wizard, and now the wizard has surpassed him. It's just scary how much more effective and valuable my wizard is in every circumstance, from DPS to the convenience of ports.

Necros need a serious power boost in some area. They're meant to be DoT masters, so adding dot crits or increasing the base damage of the dots would be nice. Alternatively, their pets could be elivated above Paper Mache Doll status.
 
Haphesto said:
Shatterblast said:
And since we're at it, why don't we add crits to rain spells?

Uh, there are already crits on rain spells.

I've noticed that my wizard is way more fun to play and is a more effective fighter than my necromancer. My necro was lvl 52 when I started the wizard, and now the wizard has surpassed him. It's just scary how much more effective and valuable my wizard is in every circumstance, from DPS to the convenience of ports.

Necros need a serious power boost in some area. They're meant to be DoT masters, so adding dot crits or increasing the base damage of the dots would be nice. Alternatively, their pets could be elivated above Paper Mache Doll status.

Give me parses and hard numbers to work with instead of anecdotes and gut feelings, and we can start talking changes.
 
I disagree with the paper doll status , the necro pets ive seen at 50ish outtank most under equippeds ive seen ,

As for the necro , What i saw was this..

low on yes , they used pet / and were dps but then it became this

/pet attack
/TARGET <CLERIC NAME> <WIZARD NAME> <SOME MANA ABUSING JERKFACE>
/GIVEMANA




which in turn made me /cry

Illl admit ive never gotten a necro far , infact the only experience ive had is 2 necros to 12 , the first of which i deleted for no known reason and the second of which im going to delete because i hate having 0 regen and being SLAUGHTERED by my dark pact, I feel noobies can be turned away , Only at level 10 i couldnt even keep dark pact up for 5 minutes.



As for that mana pump change, Ill go ahead and say it was for the best of the class , but then again , what do i know


But ill also say , ive NEVER needed a necro to pump my mana , then again most of the time im backup healer / dps , but still even when i was the only healer , i could get along fine without one giving me endless blue bar movement.
 
I have one thing to say about Necro DoTs. I've noticed recently a druid snare can overwrite my DoT snare which I don't seem to think is good. Personally I think each players DoT should be his own. This sounds confusing so I'll explain further. I'm trying to say the same DoTs from two necros shouldn't overwrite each other; they should stack. Same for other classes with DoTs that are casted on a mob. If a shaman casts a fire related DoT it shouldn't stack over a necro's heat blood, or a druids snare over a necro's DoT snare. Everything should stack as long as it's from another player or is a different type of DoT. Just my 2 cents
 
Crayak said:
I have one thing to say about Necro DoTs. I've noticed recently a druid snare can overwrite my DoT snare which I don't seem to think is good. Personally I think each players DoT should be his own. This sounds confusing so I'll explain further. I'm trying to say the same DoTs from two necros shouldn't overwrite each other; they should stack. Same for other classes with DoTs that are casted on a mob. If a shaman casts a fire related DoT it shouldn't stack over a necro's heat blood, or a druids snare over a necro's DoT snare. Everything should stack as long as it's from another player or is a different type of DoT. Just my 2 cents

Mobs, just like players, can have only so many 'effects' on them. No overwriting would mean 60+ effects on a raid mob. Not gonna happen.
 
Wiz said:
Give me parses and hard numbers to work with instead of anecdotes and gut feelings, and we can start talking changes.

I don't have parsers set up, but I can take a gander at the spell database. What it boils down to is that every necro DoT is a less mana efficient, lower damage yielding, spread-out version of an equivelant wizard DD or rain. Yes, wizards are nuke masters, and some of those necro DoTs have debuffs attached, but necromancers are DoT masters. Isn't the payoff of DoTs supposed to be a high volume of damage spread over time, combined with mana efficiency to lessen the downtime after the dots run their course? Especially now that the lich line has been nerfed, making it more dangerous and inconvenient for necros to regenerate their mana fast and cast their inferior dots again.

I had an idea while typing that out. Could some of the necro dots be made AoE? Clouds of disease, a wave of poison with after-effects, stuff like that.
 
Correction: Wizards are DPS masters.

Which pretty much invalidates the whole thing.

Correction 2: Lich line was not nerfed, it was fixed. It was bugged to be twice as good as we meant it to be.
 
Necromancers were once quite average. Our advantage was a pretty good mana regen (not as good as a shaman's), but as stated our DoTs were about on par with Wizards for damage:mana but they took longer to affect. Our pets were extremely lame, and tanked like an undereqipped warrior of about half their level. They also missed all the time. We were pretty good at soloing, but a couple classes could surpass us, especially in the right circumstances.

Then, HP regen got nerfed and our "pretty good mana regen" as well. It was dangerous for my Iksar (+regen) with a Heart of Mielech (+regen) to solo normal dark blue mobs with Arch Lich (not even the final lich spell), and it got somewhat ridiculous with the HP regen nerf, although it wasn't really serious. We might had to lifetap a little more (loss of mana). We're still taken in groups if no one else is really available, and we're useful in raids so clerics don't run OOM and the tank doesn't die.

Now, we can no longer give our mana to others, our main raid function. I'm not defending this function, but hey, it was one. For what? A 10% mob weakening effect. That's great if you're the only class that can cast dots, but I can see with shaman (with superior mana regen) and other necros, a raid mob hitting that 10% weakness pretty fast, even without you being present. So now you can cast a couple dots on the mob and wait ... OR you could be a wizard and cast nuke over nuke until you run out of mana by the end of a fight, doing several times more damage to the mob.

Currently, I guess you can see the Necro as a DPS / debuff class, only the "main debuff class", the shaman, can probably do the same debuff job as you can with his own dots (I'm not sure how much damage you have to be doing to a mob for it to reach the 10% weak cap, but I can't see it being a whole lot or the effect would be useless in group situations). Our DPS is definitely quite second rate compared to rogues, rangers, wizards, magicians, monks. While we may still be alright at soloing, we've definitely lost a lot in the area we were lacking earlier, which is group and raid friendliness.

Now, I was assuming that the necro class was going to get something in exchange for having their main raid function eliminated (besides the dot weakening effect which presents the stacking issue I mentioned earlier) but from Wiz's reply: "Give me parses and we can start talking changes."

Changes need to be made. We are not as useful as we should be. We cannot do a fraction of the DPS or debuff nearly as well as other classes. Even the bard, who is also somewhat of "jack of all trades" class has some very important specific roles.

Also, I know I've mentioned this ever since I joined the server, but I figured I would again, our pets are useless. They must have a dexterity score of about 20 as they miss more than hit, and there's no way I can let my pet tank a DB at ANY LEVEL and that's even with a Pet Health V item. At higher levels when mobs are doing hundreds of damage, our pet begins to proc a 40 damage lifetap, which is way too little too late to be of any use. Also, our spell drops are pathetic, as bad as our pets are I still haven't even seen my level 63 pet for sale for months. Many of our spells are just not guaranteed to a necromancer which I don't think should be the case, I don't think you should have to go through 63-65 without your recent pet just because it's designed so it's nearly impossible to obtain.

But I digress, as it stands now, the necromancer class does need a serious looking at, with or without parses. It is fairly evident that we were never close to being an overpowered class and now that we've gotten chopped short a bit recently, we do need a reevaluation.
 
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