Relic Drop Rate.

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I would guess that once a guild gets to the level where they start to drop they are raiding for both and not just for the gear. Yes the gear is nice nobody can deny that, but it's not the soul reason to raid.

I know relics are supposed to be rare but one or two a month is really depressing. It's not for lack of killing and raiding mobs that have a chance to drop them. Also after this long of a period I can no longer chalk it up to just bad luck.

Nothing will chage anyways as stated before so we'll just keep plugging along and hope that this "endless unlucky" streak doesn't continue. I certainly wont hold my breath hoping that next raid one will drop. Chances are it will be another partial or full clear somewhere yeilding a goose egg for the efforts.
 
Gregor said:
This is doing 2 - 4 raids a week every week.
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Gregor said:
I know relics are supposed to be rare but one or two a month is really depressing.
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Hmm, some math: 2 - 4 raids a week, 4 weeks in a month. --> 8 - 16 raids a month.

1 - 2 relics/month ~ 8 - 16 raids.

So you say you get ~ 1 relic every 8 raids.

Sounds totally fine for me in the early (pre-IP) tiers.
 
Thats a hard pill to swallow considering the ammount of named we down per raid basis. Still sounds pretty darn thin but if EVERY single person on SOD agrees with you Nwaij then you must be right.

If the average is 2 per month on a good month killing all those named then they are super super ultra rare on tier 4 / 5. Right now we are batting one whole relic all month after countless boss kills. Some months we go w/o seeing any..

LOL if thats normal then a dinner and a movie would be nice. =) I'm joking of corse, but yeah those numbers are still kinda low. If thats how it is for every single tier 4 / 5 guild then it must be the norm. I would be curious to hear from others who are around our raiding level.

But of corse sence nothing will change I guess it really doesn't matter. =)
 
Nwaij said:
They do, with the exception of Thaz.
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So really whats the big deal anyways? You basically only raid to get gear anyways according to an earlier post. Relics are just random. So they don't drop there whats the big deal then? Your still getting nice gear ups and after all relics are only a "nice bonus" right????

At least the quote below supports this line of thinking.

Zaela said:
Also, this seems like something of a misrepresentation. You aren't raiding for relics and relics alone, you're raiding for gear upgrades. Relics, being random, are just an occasional bonus.
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On a side note I can look back to when I first got lifeward. It was a very very long time ago mind you. This little story kinda goes hand in hand with this thread and what others say is normal. I spent like 8 - 12 hours a day for many many days on everburning life. I'm not joking about how long it took for that single drop. It was over a week and a half of those hours per day. Everything else was a piece of cake and by far less time consuming. I finally got my stuffs and shield completed with the help of Latten. He really came through for me one day on Aanallain. =) Thanks again BTW your the man! Anyways alot of people started posting about how much lifeward quest sucked. Zummba even made a post about his lifeward battle. Needless to say nobody in history of SOD probably took longer then me to get burning life drop. I was also right there in those posts jumping on the band wagon saying nothing was wrong, and I didn't even want to see a change.

The moral of the story is it's very easy to say something is fine once you get past that stage. Or you got lucky and had a set of people who could raid every single day 12 hours a day for great progression. Or your a dinosaur who has been here sence the dawn of time. The game does in fact cator to very high end raiding. You have the most targets to choose from at any given time. Of corse it's no big deal to anyone at that level.

Nothing will probably change as expected, but I can promise you there are quite a few people out there that want to see that very first relic. It is a big deal with more people then you might think. I know I'm certainly not asking for them to become trivial or common. I am asking that it maybe gets looked into.

We might as well look at the math side of things as well. I do respect what Nwaij has to say, but that is very easy coming from someone who has exceptional gear, all spells, and bonuses etc. He does have his time into SOD, but based off of my numbers I still have to disagree with (1) maybe (2) relics per month. Expecially when your considering the kills per raid. According to Nwaij this is the acceptable standard for all tier 4 / 5 content.





Nwaij said:
Hmm, some math: 2 - 4 raids a week, 4 weeks in a month. --> 8 - 16 raids a month.

1 - 2 relics/month ~ 8 - 16 raids.

So you say you get ~ 1 relic every 8 raids.

Sounds totally fine for me in the early (pre-IP) tiers.
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Lets start with the low ball first. Let say we are lazy and only raid twice a week. Mind you this has never happened before but humor me on this.

(8) raids per month killing only a pittiful (2) named per raid. 8 x 2 = 16 kills per month on average being very lazy. Yes, I would agree this would sound acceptable at (1) maybe even (2)relics per month if we got lucky.

Now lets say we decide to be lazy but maybe not that lazy. We still only raid (8) times in one month. Let's say we kill only 3 named per raid day. 8 X 3 = 24 kills per month average. I'm starting to find these figures disturbing, and we still haven't even reach out monthly average yet. More kills in but still you have the possibility to get (0) drops per month. On average (1) maybe (2) relics per month doesn't sound all that appealing.

Let's move onto an average and say we are raiding (3) days per week and (12) days per month. Let's also say we still only average (3) bosses. 12 X 3 = 36 kills per month. We do this quite often and still only see maybe (2) per month if we are lucky. I have seen months like that with (0) - (2) relics.

Now lets just go right for the gusto and go for as many possible relic kills we can take. We decide to raid (4) days per week or (16) days per month, and kill at least (4) bosses per raid on average. 16 x 4 = 64 kills. Based off of months and months of seeing how they drop on our tier I can only conclude that death by numbers wont help as much as you might think. Chances are you will still get (0) - (2) relics per month. Unless you get uber lucky somehow and get a few more. That again is a big maybe from what I have seen month in and month out they are just to rare.

So yes I do believe they are to rare from what I have expecienced. If it's widely acceptable to get (0) - (2) relics per month for killing (16 - 64) bosses then I can't possibly counter anyones arguement.

Wiz and everyone on staff might want to consider that not everyone can dedicate more then half or all of their day to this wounderful server every week. I know I would if I cound but alas I run my own business. I do however play a crap load of hours per week going on 2 1/2 years now. I have seen more guilds come and go more times then I can possibly count while allways staying loyal to my origional friends and guild. There is a reason why people jump ship from a guild or quit playing the game all together. Not everyone can be hard core player. People who start new have to build from the ground up. It takes most of these people more time then it's worth. Eventually they might loose interest and quit playing. IMO it takes way to long to get the critical needed buffs. I know it took us a month of sundays to get ours. It certainly wasn't for lack of effort I can assure you. For most people though this critical time isn't something they want to be put through. It just easier to move to another game or guild. Anyone who leaves SOD is a pitty. They were faced with ginding the same content forever or quitting or doing what is easy.

Our guild is stronger then ever and actually very lucky that we are such great friends. I would wager that alot of other guilds might have almost had as much glue as ours but yet still failed. I would also speculate that relics and that needed buff / heals / dps aquiring on a very select few play a big part in that as well. Of corse sence they are "so rare" during that guilds very trying moment in time.

Also for the record I'm not just a fresh off the boat 65. My cleric will be hitting 400 aa's here pretty soon sence I will be grinding his ass off. He will be grinding tombs like mad here pretty soon. As for my wizzy he will be 325 pretty soon to and grinding tomes as well. I might not have seen much content above tier 6 but I do play alot and have been round for 2 1/2 years now. My cleic and wiz would easily have 6.5 - 7k mana with decent FT at our current level if I didn't pass almost everything to guild mates. Thats not uber but it's pretty decent for our level right now.

I'm just trying to say that yes I still think relics are a bit to rare at our current level. I would like to see it looked at if possible. Relics do play a big part in peoples interest in this game. It's also a shame to loose good new blood to the server when people start to drop like flies.

If your opinion is they are not rare and fine as is I can respect your opinion even if I don't agree with it.
 
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Gregor said:
So really whats the big deal anyways? You basically only raid to get gear anyways according to an earlier post. Relics are just random. So they don't drop there whats the big deal then? Your still getting nice gear ups and after all relics are only a "nice bonus" right????
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You fail at sarcasm. We don't need any Relic anymore.

Also QQ. We all have passed by this.

Someone trashcan this shit, please? :)
 
It wasn't sarcasm I was just agreeing with another persons point of view.

Everything I have stated is from what I have seen due to my experiences with relics on the tiers I am on. There really isn't a real reason to trash can it. It just seems like there isn't a good counter to this reply I just posted. All based off of facts mind you. If it's acceptable to kill 16 - 64 relic dropping mobs and still only receive at most a 2 per month average, then there is nothing I can possibly say to change anyones mind.

If nothing changes then fine. My cleric btw has three of his allready. One member has four, a couple have two, and a half decent ammount who raid with us have one. Pretty soon we will be doing a general rotation so all members can get at least one relic. This might not be the fastest way to progress by hooking everyone up with one relic. On the other hand all of them did endure the waiting to get a shot phase sence we were gtting all the needed stuff out of the way. So don't confuse this post with complaining. I was agreeing with the origional poster stating that I also feel they are to rare. I might not agree with his pages idea but the root of his post I do. I'm sure it wasn't the first time Goon killed 8 mobs in one night and got no relics. I'm sure it wasn't the first time for alot of other guilds out there as well.
 
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I also feel that they should never become common. They are very useful and strong upgrades to everyone who can use them. I'm just giving my opinion based off of what others and myself have expecrienced on our current level. I do however feel that giving them a slight boost isn't going to kill the server. It would also keep the ones who can't dedicate as much time as say myself or others who play here happy.
 
Gregor said:
So really whats the big deal anyways? You basically only raid to get gear anyways according to an earlier post. Relics are just random. So they don't drop there whats the big deal then? Your still getting nice gear ups and after all relics are only a "nice bonus" right????
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I was just clarifying that there are no relics at all in thaz, not QQing (that was Zummba).


Also, after taking a quick glance at our guild archive, we have ten (10!) relics listed from 07/06 till 03/07 when we stopped keeping track of them cause we were done with them. And we raided basically every day.
 
So your saying at Exodus's current level at the time only 10 relics dropped in 8 months? I'm sorry Nwaij but I kinda find that hard to believe. I would believe that maybe you got new blood and they needed relics. Maybe 10 relics to re finish up new recruits. I just couldn't emaine at your guy's level only 10 dropped in all the time. Not to mention raiding every day like you stated. I would emagine that alot more did drop and were just sold. Unless of corse you spent the majority of your guilds time in said zone that doesn't drop any. This of corse is just speculation on my part.

If exodus did in fact only get 10 relics to drop in 8 months killing every day then obviously upper tiers need to be looked at as well.

*Edit*

I'm not sure if your saying back during those dates you all were only tier 4 / 5 on average. I kinda doubt thats the case though. If so and you only got 10 in 8 months raiding every day then thats brutal by any standards.
 
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Yeah i dont think that info is correct.. since i know ive seen atleast that many since i joined Exo in february..

Ill go through logs and see what i see.
 
Gregor said:
This paying for Relics might be frowned upon and if it is I retract my post. I'm just really frusterated for myself and alot of others out there who spend alot of time on this game allready.
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If relics were meant to be sold, they would not be NO DROP. They were made NO DROP because people were selling them...
 
Revelation raids tiers 6-7 (according to Wold's listing) for 3 nights a week for 3-4 hours a night. Here's our relic drop history for this year:

Code: 
+------------------------+----------+
| month(raids.raid_date) | count(*) |
+------------------------+----------+
|                      1 |        9 |
|                      2 |       10 |
|                      3 |        9 |
|                      4 |        8 |
|                      5 |        2 |
+------------------------+----------+
Seems very reasonable for this tier IMO.
 
GuiardoTuneweaver said:
If relics were meant to be sold, they would not be NO DROP. They were made NO DROP because people were selling them...
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That is also exactly why I never mentioned it again sence I knew it would be frowned upon. Being no drop they basically fall into the same classification as raiding loots. I stopped pressing the matter even though I would if someone random person or guild offered to help.



GuiardoTuneweaver said:
Revelation raids tiers 6-7 (according to Wold's listing) for 3 nights a week for 3-4 hours a night. Here's our relic drop history for this year:

Code: 
+------------------------+----------+
| month(raids.raid_date) | count(*) |
+------------------------+----------+
|                      1 |        9 |
|                      2 |       10 |
|                      3 |        9 |
|                      4 |        8 |
|                      5 |        2 |
+------------------------+----------+
Seems very reasonable for this tier IMO.
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So from what I'm gathering tier 6 - 7 has an average drop of say 8 per month with a moderate ammount of time only 4 hours of raiding per session? If I'm reading it wrong please correct me. It seems like a 5 month collection of data to me.

If this is infact what the list is showing then thats a pretty big jump in relics comming in for only a 1 - 2 tiers worth of progression. That takes into consideration our guild being tier 5. I can't see where it's ballanced for guilds that are not really all that far behind. You also have to consider players at our level will expecience 0 - 2 relic drops per month raiding longer then 4 hours per episode along with roughly the same ammount of days raided per month.

This is the big gap that I have been hearing about. You go from almost desert watch conditions to actually seeing stuff drop on a per raid basis in most cases.
 
Relics are the bottleneck in progression for lower tiered guilds. It's always been like this, and it's intended.

At your gear level a relic spell scroll is the single biggest upgrade anyone in your raid could obtain.

With an increase in relic drops you'd also see a staggering increase in progression speed.

Mobs at higher tiers have higher drop rates for relic scrolls because they simply aren't as monumental of an upgrade as they once were. They're used to fill in the gaps of your raid. The relics you passed on obtaining because the core of your guild gained the greater benefit from the scrolls.

This reason only grows stronger as you advance in the raid game, where relics scrolls only function as a source for cash income and to create a window of opportunity for higher tiered guilds to recruit members of lower standing. To soften the blow of recruiting someone with no relics into a guild fully relic'd.

In closing, the relic drop rates are working as intended. They're balanced as intended. They're even dropping as intended, and it's highly improbable that this will be changing at any point in time, no matter how much you disagree with it.
 
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