Rebalancing Racial Bonuses

Jose races add more flavor to them and balance them more which I like.

I'd do some changes though:

OGRE
Being an Ogre I don't understand why all races gains some different benefits except ogres which remains the same but adds him another negative thing "Clumsy". We are being discriminated!
Ogres are known for their thoughness (we have big sta) so maybe a mod in energy/defense would be prolly correct, they also known as having mind resist (maybe cause they are stupid and shown in their fear resistance) maybe the mod should be in focus/mind. +3% to any of those 2 specs
Also, I'd add a Malus for them. We have low cha and we are ugly. Maybe we should deserve a Malus in the faction gaining. -3% (even 4 or 5) to faction gain

FROGLOK
Should gain some focus/mind maybe cause it means they resist more spells and I think is logical frogs resist more spells cause I alway shave the impression that as being amphibious they could resist better poisons/diseases etc. +3% to Focus/Mind

DWARF
Could get a bonus to Smithing, I think is very logical RP wise. +5% to Smithing gain

Will think more about it if I come across more ideas.
 
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FROGLOK
+5 Magic Resistance
+5 Poison Resistance
+5 Disease Resistance
Ultravision
Improved Swimming
Improved Lung Capacity
+5% Skill Learning Rate [Does not affect tradeskills]
Regeneration
 
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The 'Large' thing was basically adding on to what Wiz said he would add when I QQ'd about trolls getting fucked on their racials (which they do). While I do think Ogres should receive it, they currently only have one negative, Pig, to go with their positives. Thats why I think Clumsy would offset their current bonuses (which currently make them some of the best tanks in the game).

As far as:

Wesell said:
HALFLING
PR: +5
DR: +5
Ability: Infravision
Pig: Consumes food faster
Ability: Innate Death Save
Taunt: +10%
Proc Rate: -5%
Nimble: + 10 Dodge
Sneak: +50
Hide: +50
Click to expand...

goes, Halflings are really difficult to deal with. They have awesome racials for say, a Warrior. Then you add in the lower proc rate (which, IIRC was added in because they made the best tank) and they have a fairly serious drawback. If anything were to be added to Halflings, I'd personally like to see it continue with their 'dumb luck' flavor. Something like:

Code: 
HALFLING
Infravision
Consumes Food Faster
Innate Death Save
+10% Taunt Chance
+15% Death Save Spell Effect
-5% Weapon Proc Rate
Dumb Luck: 10% chance to have one of two 'Dumb Luck' spells cast upon the Halfling when hit by a detrimental spell. This effect either increases spell damage done to the Halfling by 10%, or decreases it by 5%.
50 Sneak
50 Hide

As far as Taldorians, I really don't have much unique to add to them. Zaidars idea was pretty solid, but what about:

Code: 
FROGLOK
Ultravision
Improved Swimming
Improved Lung Capacity
+10% Skill Learning Rate [Does not affect tradeskills]
Regeneration
+10 to Cold Resist
Outsider: -3% to faction gains, +3% to faction losses. [i]- They are the 'new' race to Dalaya, after all.[/i]
 
Mythryn said:
As far as Taldorians, I really don't have much unique to add to them. Zaidars idea was pretty solid, but what about:

Code: 
FROGLOK
Ultravision
Improved Swimming
Improved Lung Capacity
+10% Skill Learning Rate [Does not affect tradeskills]
Regeneration
+10 to Cold Resist
Outsider: -3% to faction gains, +3% to faction losses. [i]- They are the 'new' race to Dalaya, after all.[/i]
Click to expand...


FROGLOK
Ultravision
Improved Swimming
Improved Lung Capacity
+10% Skill Learning Rate [Does not affect tradesekills]
Regeneration
+3% Sight/Warding Spec
+3% Mind/Focus Spec
Outsider: -3% to faction gains, +3% to faction losses
 
Mythryn said:
The 'Large' thing was basically adding on to what Wiz said he would add when I QQ'd about trolls getting fucked on their racials (which they do). While I do think Ogres should receive it, they currently only have one negative, Pig, to go with their positives. Thats why I think Clumsy would offset their current bonuses (which currently make them some of the best tanks in the game).
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All the positive feats affect really only Ogres as tanks and the negative you propose would affect only ogres as tank as well. I'd think adding something positive and negative that would affect ogre casters would be something that would give more flavor to the race.
 
OGRE
Infravision
Slam
Consumes Food Faster
-20% Duration to Fear targeting the player
-35% Duration to Stun targeting the player
Clumsy: Increased chance to miss
Large: Increase damage dealt from Bash, Kick and Slam.
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making any race hit less is a very bad choice imo and a very big penalty for any gains an ogre gets atm. If you look closely you get fear and stun reduced while the rest does nothing and while those 2 are very situational, hitting less effects every fight for melees and doesnt effect casters at all.
 
Spiritplx said:
There are only a few racial bonuses that I think need looked at, but these bonuses are indeed (in my opinion, and many others) overpowered. The two races I think should definitely be looked at are gnome and erudite.

Gnomes get a 10% bonus to all worn haste and all worn foci which is a HUGE benefit. Sure gnomes get a -25% to fear and mez, but really, this is not a factor many of the times. Either you have Pot4 and resist it, or the spell is unresistable (or the fact that mobs that fear or mez are super rare in SoD).

Erudites get a 5% straight bonus to all specializations. This means that erudites have better avoidance, spell damage, melee damage, etc then any other race. They also have a tiny exp. bonus which is more than negligible, but they have zero penalties.

Honestly, from a power standpoint, these races are just better than the others. The only other race that comes close is iksar (small ac bonus and small innate regen bonus). The problem I have with these abilities is that people should be picking races because that's what they want to play instead of what will be the "best". Some classes cannot even take advantage of these overpowered races, making the imbalance even worse.

Either the racial bonuses should be toned down a bit, or other races should get a little something else to boost their powerlevels with gnomes and erudites.

(Hey neat, this is another one of those balancing threads...if you are going to whine and bitch that I am nerfing your race, then you better have valid reasons for why your race should be overpowered, or stay out of this thread)
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I dont see how this post has any validity without numbers - just like any other S&R post. If someone were to actually do the math you would see that on the highest of high end gnome cleric your heal is still doing less than 100 extra. If actual numbers are posted (and the burden of proof is not on me) you will see that gnomes are neither overpowered or unbalanced. Its just a fun little bonus. The haste bonus is clearly the biggest benefit. How much more dps/agro is 33% over 30% haste though? You also cant just throw out the fact that we get negative fear mez because bards have pot4 either. Playing a small race has other detriments to it as well including starting stats and not being able to run around zones like stormkeep without having to jump up steps. Not to mention some percentage of players simply despise small races.

You make a very poor argument to nerf gnomes and erudites without posting numbers to support your 'overpowered' claim. My opinion is that the bonuses are insignificant at best in the end game. This is something that has been discussed in the recent past and reconfigured already not sure why it is being brought up again.
 
Considering tomes (which are equivalent to 200aa) give you 5% to dps, and that a gnome bonus gives over 2% increase to healing and damage with the right focuses, and the 3-5% haste, it is more overpowered than the almost nothing that most other races get. Numbers don't need to be posted because the percentages are different for each person. Having a base percentage is easier to examine than one specific case, so I am not sure why you think I "lack evidence". Also, the bonus affects ALL foci, not just healing and damage. Range increment, casting speed, pet foci, ALL of it is affected. So it is way better than just exping in a tome or getting a clicky for one or two spells.

These "insignificant" bonuses are about as insignificant as ring clickies for focus, or getting ~80AA in tomes. I really do not think they are insignificant at all. The thing is, SoD is based on TINY upgrades. These are power upgrades compared to most races which have flavor upgrades.

Maybe I am taking crazy pills here, but not acknowledging that their bonuses are superior to all other races, to me, is absurd. If the staff wants them to be this way, then that is fine. But their bonuses blow every other race out of the water.

I think a lot of things people have posted so far is good, and closing the gap between the disparity of the racial bonuses, to me, is a good thing.


Edit: For clarity, I DO think that the negative resists to fear and mez are a detriment to gnomes, however, I do NOT think that the detriment balances the bonuses they receive.
 
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Gregor said:
Sounds like you get a nifty little bonus for playing a midget or someone with a big huge forehead.

Personally it was exactly those reasons that caused me not to pick them bonuses or not.
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this made me lol irl… thx


Spiritplx said:
Fair enough. I propose that the bonuses for gnomes should be 6% to foci and haste, and the erudite bonus should go down to 3%. That way the other races can stay the same and these two classes can become balanced.
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unbalanced, based on what facts? Show me the overpowered gnome numbers please.

I have some numbers based off the “SoD Spell Parser v 0.1:
wizard archaic: moon comet, mana cost = 525, base damage = 2575. So, the gnome race bonus is 10% = 258, and you want a bonus of only 6% = 155, thereby nerfing 103 damage from that spell. 103 damage from the archaic is not over powered.
Spiritplx said:
but an overall balance is what I would want tyhe most, so however the devs want to implement that.
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the devs did just that.. they tweaked the races out so you can pick a race that is “better” for a class you want to play. If you want to pick a froglok wizard that’s ok...you wont nuke as hard, land as many nukes or have as much mana as a gnome but you will get: +10 poison res, +5 magic res, swim and run stairs better. Your choice. But the gnome 10% is not over powered at all.


My gnome gets stuck on 95% of the stairs in this game ffs, I also fall into cracks in the floor and get stuck behind things. Im always in the back of groups and raids and I cant see shit.
tbh, gnomes should get bumped to 15% foci and haste due solely on the fact that we cant walk up stairs... jump stop jump stop jump stop jump stop, that gets old real quick and it slows game play down having to always jump up stairs and other obstacles the taller races take for granted. A 5% bump would be good compensation for this racial affliction imo

don’t get me started on the server-wide hate of gnomes… the little bastards

hmmm, bash-a-gnome day and toss-a-gnome should be banned from sod

viva gnomes
 
Solo said:
I have some numbers based off the “SoD Spell Parser v 0.1:
wizard archaic: moon comet, mana cost = 525, base damage = 2575. So, the gnome race bonus is 10% = 258, and you want a bonus of only 6% = 155, thereby nerfing 103 damage from that spell. 103 damage from the archaic is not over powered.
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258 dmg for archaic is a hella lot. Nerving this by 103 leaves a lot still.


Solo said:
But the gnome 10% is not over powered at all.
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This made me lol.


Solo said:
tbh, gnomes should get bumped to 15% foci and haste due solely on the fact that we cant walk up stairs... jump stop jump stop jump stop jump stop, that gets old real quick and it slows game play down having to always jump up stairs and other obstacles the taller races take for granted. A 5% bump would be good compensation for this racial affliction imo
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This made me go WTF. Increasing an allready overpowered racial bonus just cause you are small and cant climb stairs, something that can be fixed by a simple illusion?

Abstain from crazy pills, ngl! :psyduck:
 
Solo said:
I have some numbers based off the “SoD Spell Parser v 0.1:
wizard archaic: moon comet, mana cost = 525, base damage = 2575. So, the gnome race bonus is 10% = 258, and you want a bonus of only 6% = 155, thereby nerfing 103 damage from that spell. 103 damage from the archaic is not over powered.
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The gnome racial bonus is not 10% extra damage, it's 10% boost to focus effects. So your best case boost (DI7 6% elemental focus) looks like this:

No bonus: 2575 * 1.21 * 1.06 = 3302.695
Gnome bonus: 2575 * 1.231 * 1.066 = 3379.03345

The boost is 76.33845 damage, or about 2.3%.

Edit: It's not as much as the goofed up example above, but as Felyn points out adding 2.3% damage to your nukes is no easy task.
 
Unless you play a gnome or erudite, you have no idea the limitations that are placed on them. Constantly having to have something just so you can see or getting stuck behind 1 person for no visible reason just because your the smallest toon model sucks.

I go with the earlier position, if they are so incredibly overpowered why are there not more of them. Why is any tank not an Iksar for the AC? Why is any cleric anything but the race with the highest wisdom? Simple fact is that people play what they enjoy. The bonuses and negatives are taken in stride while personal preference wins for most.
 
So if one class is more powerful than another, then there should be no balancing since not EVERYONE played that class?

Classes have been balanced before when this wasn't the case, so I am not so sure that argument holds.
 
Spiritplx said:
So if one class is more powerful than another, then there should be no balancing since not EVERYONE played that class?

Classes have been balanced before when this wasn't the case, so I am not so sure that argument holds.
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The nature of racial bonuses make it so that some races will be better suited for certain classes then others. What I think Felyn is trying to accomplish here is to make it so that 2 races don't have the best numerical claim on a multitude of classes. Pretty much if you are a caster/cleric and don't pick gnome or erudite then you will always ceiling lower.

Don't forget that foci also include Comp Str and Comp health for mages / Necros, so a gnome pet will always be stronger than a non-gnome with the same foci.

What I would like to see is each race have a slight advantage for a class or two over the other races.

Like gnomes make the best wizard / mage by a getting a 7% bonus to damage and pet foci only and the worst tank by a slight margin. Maybe a -5% to aggression for being cuddly.

Have erudites get a 10% bonus to Focus/mind and sight/warding (or innate REFLECT off their giant shiny foreheads), but since they are so itellectually focused give them an innate negative ac (inverse iksar bonus)

Those are jsut some quick examples of how every race should work. The bonuses and detriments should fit in with their lore as well as give the some unique advantage / disability vs all other races. Of course some would have to over lap a bit.
 
Danku said:
Unless you play a gnome or erudite, you have no idea the limitations that are placed on them. Constantly having to have something just so you can see or getting stuck behind 1 person for no visible reason just because your the smallest toon model sucks.

I go with the earlier position, if they are so incredibly overpowered why are there not more of them. Why is any tank not an Iksar for the AC? Why is any cleric anything but the race with the highest wisdom? Simple fact is that people play what they enjoy. The bonuses and negatives are taken in stride while personal preference wins for most.
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As a personal example, when I created my char I didn't knew quite anything about racial feats and hadn't enough wisdom to know what was better or worse. And a lot of people I know is the same.
In my case it didn't affect me a lot, but in other classes it would.

About being small you can always get an illusion. I don't think humans can get anything to get the bonuses that gnomes has. Same applies with being blind. Who raid without EOT?
 
What about humans? Consider that > 99% of players will never max all 5 tomes. If 250k experience == 1 AA. On 200 Million Experience gained, a human has achieved an extra 40 AA's over another race. So unless you are max tomes (see above) a human wizard has an extra 20% tome over everyone else. This seems pretty overpowered to me considering the facts. Just because you have reached the ceiling doesnt mean everyone will, I think the bonuses need to be taken into account on how they affect the majority, and not the minority.

I think its fair to say that there are a handful of Races who do not have desirable bonuses. It isnt fair to say nerf others because in almost all cases (except 2 equally geared max tomed of the same class) the microscopic bonuses can be overcame with either more upgrades, more tomes etc...As originally stated only a tiny fraction of the players will ever reach sod's ceilling.
 
So, with rank 7 in every focus:

Di 7 = 23.1% instead of 21%.
MC 7 = 7.7% instead of 7%.
HI 7 =23.1% instead of 21%
CSI 7 = 15.4 instead of 14.

So lets take, say, Relic: Light of Eternity.

Base 2700.
395 mana cost.
3 second cast.

Apply Healing Adept aas, 3213.
Apply Avatar of Mercy, 3695.
Apply Non Gnome HI7, 4470~
Apply Gnome HI7, 4552~

Non Gnome Hi7 with 5 tomes = 5587, 2.58 second cast, 367 mana. 15.223 healing done per point of mana spent.
Gnome Hi7 with 5 tomes = 5690, 2.53 second cast, 364.585 mana. 15.607 healing done per point of mana spent.


Unfortunately, it doesnt look like gnome racials are overly out of line, according to this. Other spells will give different numbers, but even still, this looks pretty reasonable to me.


Although, I wouldnt mind the rest of the races gaining perhaps a bonus to a single specialization, as has been suggested.
 
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