Ranger CoD Quest Reward

Give Sky Darkener arrows a different model.

EDIT: I started this post before Tarutao posted and Baxters responded. It has a good idea, and I hate just deleting posts, so I'm leaving it. However, it seems most of this has been covered, so please feel free to just read the title and the spaced out bottom part. You won't have missed anything Taru didn't cover.



Baxters said:
If rangers were at some point given an endless quiver of high end arrows, fletching could be revamped again around this. Several ideas:

-reduce the price of arrow reagents to account for the new lower tier market
-add more useful range items crafted by fletchers
-add type 4 bow augs crafted by fletchers (see above)
-add some pristine bonus to crafting arrows yourself that could be slightly better than the endless quiver arrows (like 13dmg vs 12) (also see above)
-add ammo slot items usable by all classes that have charges of a useful spell like stun, heals, etc--maybe these items could have the arrow graphic as their icon

It seems unanimous that rangers want, at least at some point, to not have to pay for their dps and/or not have to deal with the inconvenience of consumable ammo. The several rangers that I've discussed the CoD weapon with (that didn't yet have it) were all under the impression that it would relieve them of paying for their dps.

Months ago I talked with Fell about the sword (before the runic2 change) and he seemed annoyed that he had to melee so much but still used the sword because it freed him of the crafted arrows. As the only ranger I've ever seen with this sword equiped, I wonder what he thinks of all this. I also wonder what Tao thinks.
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--- reduce the price of arrow reagents to account for the new lower tier market

What's the problem with the current prices? Are you talking about making the top Fletching arrows cheaper and easier to obtain so everyone can afford to use the best arrows all the time? I don't think you understand balance here.

--- add more useful range items crafted by fletchers
--- add ammo slot items usable by all classes that have charges of a useful spell like stun, heals, etc--maybe these items could have the arrow graphic as their icon

If they're genuinely useful, you're asking for either an across-the-board powerup to players (bad) or providing new clickies to people. We have a billion clickies already, we don't need a whole assortment more. If assume they're useful, otherwise your suggestion makes even less sense. Sure, this may seem like a good idea, but a cursory consideration reveals it contains no substance.

--- add some pristine bonus to crafting arrows yourself that could be slightly better than the endless quiver arrows (like 13dmg vs 12)

You want general, easily available, endless 12 damage arrows, with the option of 13 damage for the effort you don't even put in now. Yet the top-end Nightmare arrows of yore were only 10 damage, and the current best arrows not from this sword are basically 11 damage. The sword already lets you trade some melee on trash mobs for a stack of 12 damage arrows (the best short of Just One), which is easily good for a couple burn phases. Thus, you are basically asking for a relative power increase of 10% and more, where instead of just meleeing during a trash fight (which you feel is too much effort), you have to *personally* invest your time as well as money to creating those arrows yourself. This idea is schizophrenic.







However, after yet another re-reading of your post, I had a good idea, so I'm putting it in the subject title. I suggest that these arrows be given a different model to differentiate them, as the annoyance of getting that particular stack of arrows on the fly in a boss fight is annoying and not really part of the spirit of the item. I'm sure we can find an item graphic that would fit the bill.

Addendum:

-add type 4 bow augs crafted by fletchers (see above)

Not up for debate. We all would like them; there's no need to try to convince anyone. However, the devs (or Tarutao) are not shy about letting you know if input on the idea is warranted or necessary. However, there are more pressing issues for staff than just putting them in game. The reason they don't exist is definitely not desire to prevent them from happening, and I'm sure they'll have a great idea (or ask for input to get that idea) should the time come for them to add type 4 augs.
 
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Animand said:
--- reduce the price of arrow reagents to account for the new lower tier market

What's the problem with the current prices? Are you talking about making the top Fletching arrows cheaper and easier to obtain so everyone can afford to use the best arrows all the time? I don't think you understand balance here.

--- add more useful range items crafted by fletchers
--- add ammo slot items usable by all classes that have charges of a useful spell like stun, heals, etc--maybe these items could have the arrow graphic as their icon

If they're genuinely useful, you're asking for either an across-the-board powerup to players (bad) or providing new clickies to people. We have a billion clickies already, we don't need a whole assortment more. If assume they're useful, otherwise your suggestion makes even less sense. Sure, this may seem like a good idea, but a cursory consideration reveals it contains no substance.

--- add some pristine bonus to crafting arrows yourself that could be slightly better than the endless quiver arrows (like 13dmg vs 12)

You want general, easily available, endless 12 damage arrows, with the option of 13 damage for the effort you don't even put in now. Yet the top-end Nightmare arrows of yore were only 10 damage, and the current best arrows not from this sword are basically 11 damage. The sword already lets you trade some melee on trash mobs for a stack of 12 damage arrows (the best short of Just One), which is easily good for a couple burn phases. Thus, you are basically asking for a relative power increase of 10% and more, where instead of just meleeing during a trash fight (which you feel is too much effort), you have to *personally* invest your time as well as money to creating those arrows yourself. This idea is schizophrenic.



However, after yet another re-reading of your post, I had a good idea, so I'm putting it in the subject title. I suggest that these arrows be given a different model to differentiate them, as the annoyance of getting that particular stack of arrows on the fly in a boss fight is annoying and not really part of the spirit of the item. I'm sure we can find an item graphic that would fit the bill.



Addendum:

-add type 4 bow augs crafted by fletchers (see above)

Not up for debate. We all would like them; there's no need to try to convince anyone. However, the devs (or Tarutao) are not shy about letting you know if input on the idea is warranted or necessary. However, there are more pressing issues for staff than just putting them in game. The reason they don't exist is definitely not desire to prevent them from happening, and I'm sure they'll have a great idea (or ask for input to get that idea) should the time come for them to add type 4 augs.
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I log into this game simply to have fun. Occasionally I log in to help other people have fun but never more than that. It's easy for anyone who likes to have fun to want more fun. That was the motivation behind starting this thread and making that recent post.

I realize some people, like Tao and the Devs give substantially more of their existence to this game so people like me can have fun. They obviously derive some satisfaction from this, otherwise they wouldn't continue to do it for free. (Hence my previous post and why I will not return to this thread).

Because you took the time to address everything I posted, I'll do a little in return:

I don't think anyone who uses ammo slot items should have to pay a substantial portion of their platinum to replenish them. That is why I think arrows should be cheaper. Forget your ideas of balance.

I did not continue developing my fletching skill because I was not having fun lvling it up. I have more fun farming platinum and paying other people to fletch for me.

I don't think my ideas, however they may lack in correct assumptions, are disorganized enough to warrant the term schizophrenic. Would you have said that to me if we were talking face to face? Have you ever interacted with someone suffering from schizophrenia?

Generally speaking, I'm annoyed that communicating over the internet is so shameful. Anyway, I'm off. See you around, Cless.
 
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The problem isn't fletching. The problem is the proc pushes into one dev's revamp territory and lessens the need for fletching at higher tiers, which the other dev doesn't want to do. As stands, the arrows it produces aren't good enough to supercede fletched arrows altogether, which means that rangers are expected to use both because the devs don't want to step on each other's toes. Most rangers find this more inconvenient than helpful.

Instead of replacing fletched arrow damage, the CoD item could augment fletched arrow damage. Turn the sword into a type 4 augment instead of a weapon. This would allow the CoD item to improve our primary form of DPS without impinging on the fletching tradeskill.
 
You seem to have the wrong idea about that word, so I'll elaborate. Your ideas are schizophrenic because they (1) lack actual substance, (2) are derived from contradictory viewpoints, and (3) implement solutions that work against each other. There is no insult to the listener in the connotation of the word, it is merely accurate in description. So sure, I'd use it. In fact, I do. Besides, I'm borderline schizophrenic myself; I wouldn't use it merely as a slur.

Second, with Returning Arrow, a quiver should last for almost 2 hours if firing once per second. For you, using Masalavir with Glory of Enthann, it would last you over 5 hours of actual autofire. If you make the arrows yourself, they cost about 300p each, or under 60p an hour. Since you're using Humanoid-Bane (my favorite), you can get the +3 reagents in no time. You could make a post buying them (Harthuk Horns) for 4p each and have enough for a lifetime by Saturday. For being so much better (50% bonus) than the best fletched arrows before (30% bonus), it's hard for me to accept that they should be much cheaper.

I will admit I consider the cost of the 7 damage Cuprosil and the Enamel and Bone arrows prohibitive for virtually any real situation. Sure, if you're a ranger working Fletching, you get to actually use the arrows for some benefit to the cost, but I never wanted to pay for them when levelling my ranger alt if I didn't have to. I funneled all my spare money into working Fletching so that I would be able to make the great ones someday, not because they were at all worth the cost. I have no problem with making these more affordable to the pre-tomes crowd.

Now if you'll excuse me as well, I think I'm going to be around you some more. Not that I'm spiting you, but the market for quivers is admittedly a bit ridiculous, so I think I'll do some mindless Fletching to undercut those guys for people I know. I'll expect I'll be making some 8+3 Humanoid bane to start with since you're using those, but I'll take requests. Send me a PM if you wanna work out some deal while I see how worthwhile this could be.

EDIT, adding more for posts made after I started typing:

eqjenius said:
The problem isn't fletching. The problem is the proc pushes into one dev's revamp territory and lessens the need for fletching at higher tiers, which the other dev doesn't want to do. As stands, the arrows it produces aren't good enough to supercede fletched arrows altogether, which means that rangers are expected to use both because the devs don't want to step on each other's toes. Most rangers find this more inconvenient than helpful.

Instead of replacing fletched arrow damage, the CoD item could augment fletched arrow damage. Turn the sword into a type 4 augment instead of a weapon. This would allow the CoD item to improve our primary form of DPS without impinging on the fletching tradeskill.
Click to expand...

I agree almost completely. I'm only going to diverge with the idea of type 4 augment for this, as it should probably be done some other way to leave type 4 augments open. I'd be more for the idea of a self-only, short-term, cooldown-based buff clicky that makes your next Archery shot increase in damage like Marza was willing to accept. Maybe even a debuff that increased your damage for a while with a following debuff of being unable to used ranged for a while after that, prompting you to melee or cast instead.
 
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The cost of fletching quivers is negligible. It's the 600 mouse clicks per quiver that drives up the price. Have fun fletching and undercutting prices!
 
eqjenius said:
The cost of fletching quivers is negligible. It's the 600 mouse clicks per quiver that drives up the price. Have fun fletching and undercutting prices!
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K! I tend to like the mindless clicking. I've gotten an 85 second Expert Minesweeper time a few times now, but can't seem to break it yet. The 91 second barrier was like this, but I'll get past it. Might as well Fletch instead.
 
Cless:

I know I said that I was done with this thread. I wanted to come back and at least send you a PM, apologizing for getting all emo. Then I had to go on reading.. :(

I was just making suggestions for the potential future of fletching. If SoD is going anywhere--ie, new content--eventually "across the board power-ups" are necessary to fight more powerful creatures. You make statements like, " Sure, this may seem like a good idea, but a cursory consideration reveals it contains no substance." But then never provide any support or explaination of why the "good idea" contains "no substance." And you put the word, cursory in there....so you just had to glance at my words to determine I was a moron??? I wouldn't be too surprised if that was the case :)

So my real life workings have given me a good deal of experience and insight into people suffering from schizophrenia. I incorrectly made the assumption that's what you meant. However, I disagree that my suggestions lacked substance. I think if there was any contradiction, it was only minor.

And borderline schizophrenia? What is that? I would be suprised to find it anywhere in the DSM-IV-TR. A truly cursory internet search provided me with a few reasonably legitimate sources that all state it was an archaic term that was used to describe people who are now classified has having schizoid or schizotypal personality disorder. Anyway, I would love to be educated on what that means to you.

But please send me a private message so the rest of the SoD community doesn't have to read this. I would like this thread to be more productive than you and me having negitive exchanges.

You seem very intelligent and I truly respect your Minesweeper accomplishments.
 
Note to DPS Classes:

In this thread, the highest dps class by a wide margin is asking for an enhanced spell resist bypass and getting traction. It's not about game balance arguments, just mere posting.

So whine early and whine often, let the rangers be your guide.
 
Boehm said:
Note to DPS Classes:

In this thread, the highest dps class by a wide margin is asking for an enhanced spell resist bypass and getting traction. It's not about game balance arguments, just mere posting.

So whine early and whine often, let the rangers be your guide.
Click to expand...

Sounds about right.
 
Boehm said:
Note to DPS Classes:

In this thread, the highest dps class by a wide margin is asking for an enhanced spell resist bypass and getting traction. It's not about game balance arguments, just mere posting.

So whine early and whine often, let the rangers be your guide.
Click to expand...

I only asked for endless quiver, something that wouldn't help or hurt ranger DPS in any way. I just think dealing with arrows is a lame mechanic. Nothing against Tarutao, I feel like he did a great job updating the tradeskill the best it could be, I just feel that ammo doesn't have a place in a game when all it does is take up bag space.

Change the sword's proc to shadow, or just give rangers shadow staff.
Delete "Just One" dumb arrow from the game
make return arrow 100% over 85%
call it a day.

Kedrin said:
There is no reason for Rangers to NOT have real Endless quiver like the class did in Everquest, other then "This isn't Everquest, we do want we want." Perhaps it is just because I play a ranger in SoD but I just don't see that as being a good enough answer.
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I guess the new reason is "We don't want to hurt Tarutao's feelings.

cian2 said:
i do think its kind of lame that rangers have to buy arrows, but clerics and some other classes have to buy peridots/pearls.
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Yeah, I talked about that in my post. I feel that Peridots, and every other gem needed to cast enchnater rune at low levels, as a regent for buffs should also be taken out of the game. It's dumb easy for people to get summoned Peridots all it does it make very new players never cast a handful of spells as they level.

Pearls might have a place still on DB but when you have a 90% chance of not using the gem on cast and they are only tied into one buff, not your main ability (healing) I just don't think it's quite the same argument, however i would vote for them to also be removed since they are really just taking up a bag space with no downfall.
 
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Total
--- DMG: 6742702 (100%) @ 11201 dps (11201 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 3609511 @5996dps

Kedrin + pets
--- DMG: 872605 (12.94%) @ 1452 dps (1450 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 258006 @437dps

Lleoc
--- DMG: 857240 (12.71%) @ 1429 dps (1424 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 126817 @258dps

Valdian + pets
--- DMG: 771881 (11.45%) @ 1284 dps (1282 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 286097 @478dps

Tarutao + pets
--- DMG: 640416 (9.5%) @ 1073 dps (1064 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 141317 @328dps

Reehs + pets
--- DMG: 599901 (8.9%) @ 1007 dps (997 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 2794 @17dps

Skos
--- DMG: 548223 (8.13%) @ 917 dps (911 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 140488 @326dps

Velleity + pets
--- DMG: 521090 (7.73%) @ 894 dps (866 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 287419 @524dps

Dimmi
--- DMG: 473599 (7.02%) @ 807 dps (787 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 135533 @314dps

Shimone + pets
--- DMG: 432874 (6.42%) @ 758 dps (719 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 316421 @563dps

Xach
--- DMG: 309369 (4.59%) @ 515 dps (514 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 342708 @569dps

Bango
--- DMG: 181320 (2.69%) @ 309 dps (301 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 435299 @751dps

Eisley + pets
--- DMG: 166010 (2.46%) @ 280 dps (276 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 187997 @336dps

Radaere
--- DMG: 105873 (1.57%) @ 181 dps (176 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 130683 @246dps

Zorlon
--- DMG: 83471 (1.24%) @ 146 dps (139 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 136607 @317dps

Wealwawn
--- DMG: 56103 (0.83%) @ 95 dps (93 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 141291 @244dps

Lilscrappy
--- DMG: 47143 (0.7%) @ 153 dps (78 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 50722 @343dps

Zurkka
--- DMG: 29337 (0.44%) @ 55 dps (49 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 128065 @297dps

Eldorath
--- DMG: 24747 (0.37%) @ 57 dps (41 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 128430 @298dps

Wolf
--- DMG: 18986 (0.28%) @ 60 dps (32 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 54598 @246dps

Squab
--- DMG: 2514 (0.04%) @ 8 dps (4 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 49813 @164dps

Gtoo
--- DMG to PC: 128406 @298dps

Special: 7: 7th yr vet G: Glyph K: Kiss S: Staunch X: Slain $: Saved by DI
Produced by GamParse v1.0.3
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Total
--- DMG: 4049110 (100%) @ 10199 dps (10199 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 1107542 @2790dps

Kedrin + pets
--- DMG: 493224 (12.18%) @ 1252 dps (1242 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 37941 @148dps

Solosolki + pets
--- DMG: 467100 (11.54%) @ 1186 dps (1177 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 34677 @135dps

Tarutao + pets
--- DMG: 415549 (10.26%) @ 1071 dps (1047 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 79385 @311dps

Valdian + pets
--- DMG: 368555 (9.1%) @ 931 dps (928 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 50282 @127dps

Reinhardt + pets
--- DMG: 358288 (8.85%) @ 902 dps (902 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 61900 @182dps

Velleity + pets
--- DMG: 295916 (7.31%) @ 759 dps (745 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 41442 @147dps

Xach
--- DMG: 285488 (7.05%) @ 721 dps (719 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 182754 @462dps

Shimone + pets
--- DMG: 277822 (6.86%) @ 703 dps (700 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 63738 @162dps

Vexiz + pets
--- DMG: 272916 (6.74%) @ 687 dps (687 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 70795 @190dps

Reehs + pets
--- DMG: 261655 (6.46%) @ 659 dps (659 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 1595 @21dps

Fidel
--- DMG: 195084 (4.82%) @ 505 dps (491 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 57203 @154dps

Zurkka
--- DMG: 150850 (3.73%) @ 382 dps (380 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 36254 @142dps

Bango
--- DMG: 112842 (2.79%) @ 284 dps (284 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 139151 @351dps

Eisley + pets
--- DMG: 44298 (1.09%) @ 170 dps (112 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 34873 @136dps

Radaere
--- DMG: 24995 (0.62%) @ 70 dps (63 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 42833 @152dps

Eldorath
--- DMG: 19269 (0.48%) @ 91 dps (49 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 39734 @156dps

Zorlon
--- DMG: 4163 (0.1%) @ 12 dps (10 sdps)
--- DMG to PC: 84405 @245dps

Twominuterecast
--- DMG: 1096 (0.03%) @ 9 dps (3 sdps)

Quila
--- DMG to PC: 48580 @190dps

Special: 7: 7th yr vet G: Glyph K: Kiss S: Staunch X: Slain $: Saved by DI
Produced by GamParse v1.0.3
Click to expand...
Get over it rangers
 
A ranger doing less dps then a bard, clearly rangers are too OP

What did that have to do with arrows again?
 
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you wouldn't have to spend time farming to buy or craft arrows and you'd have more bag space, obviously that is a buff
 
Marza said:
I always wanted rangers to be a mix of bow attacks and melee attacks.
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I think if that was one of your intentions, then the suggestions to add a good dps proc to the sword makes the most sense. It would be cool if the sword was comparable or slightly better than the other t11 melee weapons that a ranger can get.
 
Kedrin said:
A ranger doing less dps then a bard, clearly rangers are too OP
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the bard vastly out gears/tomes the ranger in question so this is a bad comparison, and yet said ranger is still putting out an absurd amount of dps.





Also most other classes outgrow their weapon rewards pretty quickly, if they were ever useful at all. The ranger reward is always useful since rangers use arrows all the time forever and ever.

The real change we should be asking for is that hybrid classes get put on the tear of eleal.
 
Make a note, both of my parses are with Vah Back which everyone but Lleoc, Solo and Reinhardt lack. Parse one included DotO gloves as well yet I'm out parsed by a ranger two tiers in gear and tomes below me, skos.

Necs are garbage and don't deserve a raid spot.
 
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Skos has a Windblaze and 47% haste, for all intents and purposes he should be doing as much DPS as he was. The only tomes he is missing that really impact his DPS by noticeable amount are Opus of striking 2 and his Class Tomes 3/4. Maybe Crit Evo if you wanna nitpick.

Also what dates are those fights and which fights were they. I'm sure there are fights rangers are good at and ones they are bad at.
 
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