Ranger CoD Quest Reward
- Thread starter Baxters
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Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
Maybe we could turn arrows into "augs" that would go in the type 4 aug slot of a bow and each could have unique bonuses.. if it is possible, could code every bow to simply automatically use 4 dmg arrows or something like that (with the type 4 aug supplementing that dmg).
Cool idea but how do we do it without destroying the recently revamped tradeskill of fletching?
Probably by inventing a time machine to go back to before that was done. Here - make the augs made through fletching and have them require a raid drop that comes at each progressive tier. Then you can still punish rangers for being woodsy.
edit: even with the revamped fletching, part of the problem inherent in fletching is that if it confers any tangible bonus then the ranger is "forced" to use that bonus, because he will be balanced around the assumption that he will use the best arrows to max dps. In this way, fletching punishes the ranger, like most mechanics which involve the ranger.
edit: even with the revamped fletching, part of the problem inherent in fletching is that if it confers any tangible bonus then the ranger is "forced" to use that bonus, because he will be balanced around the assumption that he will use the best arrows to max dps. In this way, fletching punishes the ranger, like most mechanics which involve the ranger.
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I always wanted rangers to be a mix of bow attacks and melee attacks.
As I posted in the other thread I realize that this weapon is not really worth the effort for the arrows you receive from the proc. However I am not going to make 1 item completely trivialize fletching sorry, the LORE tag is staying.
I think there might be a way to get my original idea (one big dmg arrow) to work but it will involve some work so no promises on a time frame.
I think there might be a way to get my original idea (one big dmg arrow) to work but it will involve some work so no promises on a time frame.
I disagree that it would completely trivialize fletching. You would still have tons of rangers without the sword that would need the fletched arrows. The majority of the rangers that would get the sword would have burnt through COUTNLESS fletched arrows. I do know that from experience.
Fletching could also be revamped again.
Anyway, thank you for your response. I'm glad I tried.
I think a change of some kind or other is in order. At this tier, the sword is not better than other weapons on this tier. I'd use a number of weapons before Shadowstorm for melee combat: Varisath, Caretaker's, Blade of Warped Designs, probably a couple of others (slightly lower ratios on most of those but better DPS procs and stats).
Which leaves the proc as the only useful portion of this item. 12 damage arrows gives rangers between 0% to 10% DPS upgrade over the best arrows in the game, depending on the target. In general, it probably averages 8% DPS upgrade if rangers average 10 damage arrows (and assuming each dmg = 4% DPS increase, which is what I remember reading Tao posting in an earlier thread some time ago).
The lore status of these arrows dictates that you can only get this DPS increase on Named fights, and you have to specifically swap these arrows in and out every time you want to use them. The effort to carry around an extra sword and an extra slot for another arrow type, plus the effort to constantly (or occasionally, depending on your playstyle) move into melee combat in order to ensure you've got CoD arrows onhand is not mitigated by the DPS increase of CoD arrows over a clicky quiver with 50 charges.
Basically, this item is barely worth using as stands. Swapping out arrows constantly isn't a lot of fun. Arrows all look the same and they always get shuffled around in your bags. You do it for Named fights if you have down time while sitting around buffing, but otherwise you just leave in your superb cold arrows or whatever cheap arrows you could find on listsold. I was looking forward to getting this because I thought it would alleviate the bother of fletching and lugging around a bunch of quivers, whilst providing a nominal DPS increase. Due to the lore tag, this item instead compounds the pain-in-the-assedness of dealing with quivers/inventory space/digging for arrows while providing only a marginal DPS increase.
Recommended change:
- Remove the lore tag and allow tier 11+ rangers the possibility of moving away from fletched arrows. I've fletched, I dunno, probably 200 quivers. It requires a lot of open inventory space, takes about an hour to fletch 5 quivers, and you always stop after an hour so you don't risk permanent wrist injury. Fletched arrows are cool, but depending on them for the rest of SoD is a bit of a depressing thought, because fletching is not remotely fun.
- If that's not on the table, make the proc a one-hour refresh clicky that will summon a single stack of 20 damage arrows. This doesn't give you enough arrows to use on a regular basis, but it gives you enough for most Named fights, depending on how efficiently your raid moves.
- Change the proc altogether. A single stack of lore/no-drop arrows that only increases ranged DPS by 8% at most is not going to be worth the hassle for most players.
Regarding fletching: The fletching revamp is the reason I unretired in the first place (I'm sure that makes Tao especially happy). It's cool to have the option of swapping out arrows for different occasions. Fletching is required for all rangers and it's a huge pain, but that's why quivers easily go for 800pp a pop.
Recommended changes:
- Make fire salamander eyes stackable so that people actually make and sell fire arrows from time to time. As stands, no one bothers. Also, make Dust of Decay a bit easier to farm: no one makes disease arrows either.
- A pristine arrow damage modifier would be cool, to reward people who fletch their own materials.
Regarding "Just One:" This is a cool concept, but only being one arrow, it's not useful. You have a 1 in 8 chance of firing it on the first shot and each subsequent. You typically fire it so quickly that you've lost more DPS than you've gained as you go through your bags and pull out a different stack of arrows and commence firing again after you get the "out of ammo!" message.
Recommended change:
- Just One should be a small stack of 5 arrows or so, instead of one. Kinda defeats the name, I know, but preserves the functionality. 5 arrows generally lasts ~ 60 seconds, so you're still gonna run out well before most encounters end. I assume that's the idea.
Which leaves the proc as the only useful portion of this item. 12 damage arrows gives rangers between 0% to 10% DPS upgrade over the best arrows in the game, depending on the target. In general, it probably averages 8% DPS upgrade if rangers average 10 damage arrows (and assuming each dmg = 4% DPS increase, which is what I remember reading Tao posting in an earlier thread some time ago).
The lore status of these arrows dictates that you can only get this DPS increase on Named fights, and you have to specifically swap these arrows in and out every time you want to use them. The effort to carry around an extra sword and an extra slot for another arrow type, plus the effort to constantly (or occasionally, depending on your playstyle) move into melee combat in order to ensure you've got CoD arrows onhand is not mitigated by the DPS increase of CoD arrows over a clicky quiver with 50 charges.
Basically, this item is barely worth using as stands. Swapping out arrows constantly isn't a lot of fun. Arrows all look the same and they always get shuffled around in your bags. You do it for Named fights if you have down time while sitting around buffing, but otherwise you just leave in your superb cold arrows or whatever cheap arrows you could find on listsold. I was looking forward to getting this because I thought it would alleviate the bother of fletching and lugging around a bunch of quivers, whilst providing a nominal DPS increase. Due to the lore tag, this item instead compounds the pain-in-the-assedness of dealing with quivers/inventory space/digging for arrows while providing only a marginal DPS increase.
Recommended change:
- Remove the lore tag and allow tier 11+ rangers the possibility of moving away from fletched arrows. I've fletched, I dunno, probably 200 quivers. It requires a lot of open inventory space, takes about an hour to fletch 5 quivers, and you always stop after an hour so you don't risk permanent wrist injury. Fletched arrows are cool, but depending on them for the rest of SoD is a bit of a depressing thought, because fletching is not remotely fun.
- If that's not on the table, make the proc a one-hour refresh clicky that will summon a single stack of 20 damage arrows. This doesn't give you enough arrows to use on a regular basis, but it gives you enough for most Named fights, depending on how efficiently your raid moves.
- Change the proc altogether. A single stack of lore/no-drop arrows that only increases ranged DPS by 8% at most is not going to be worth the hassle for most players.
Regarding fletching: The fletching revamp is the reason I unretired in the first place (I'm sure that makes Tao especially happy). It's cool to have the option of swapping out arrows for different occasions. Fletching is required for all rangers and it's a huge pain, but that's why quivers easily go for 800pp a pop.
Recommended changes:
- Make fire salamander eyes stackable so that people actually make and sell fire arrows from time to time. As stands, no one bothers. Also, make Dust of Decay a bit easier to farm: no one makes disease arrows either.
- A pristine arrow damage modifier would be cool, to reward people who fletch their own materials.
Regarding "Just One:" This is a cool concept, but only being one arrow, it's not useful. You have a 1 in 8 chance of firing it on the first shot and each subsequent. You typically fire it so quickly that you've lost more DPS than you've gained as you go through your bags and pull out a different stack of arrows and commence firing again after you get the "out of ammo!" message.
Recommended change:
- Just One should be a small stack of 5 arrows or so, instead of one. Kinda defeats the name, I know, but preserves the functionality. 5 arrows generally lasts ~ 60 seconds, so you're still gonna run out well before most encounters end. I assume that's the idea.
I still think making the proc a dps proc that autocasts the summon arrow spell is the best way to make this a viable melee weapon, if that was ever an idea that was had.
If the Shadowstorm arrows are such a big DPS boost over fletched arrows, then maybe its OK that you can't use them all the time? Switch them in for boss fights/burn phases/whatever.
If the Shadowstorm arrows are such a big DPS boost over fletched arrows, then maybe its OK that you can't use them all the time? Switch them in for boss fights/burn phases/whatever.
Rorne
The sad fish is a reactionary creature; an enemy o
This isn't going to happen it's just supposed to be a little novelty item.
cian2
Dalayan Master
I like this idea. It does kind of suck that rangers are probably the only class that gets a "bad" class weapon from both helize and 4.3
The problem is even now, fletching ' trivializes itself '. Even with the revamp, you are basically self-serving yourself with the tradeskill, which really renders the whole process boring and/or null.
I have the same view on this as Kedrin, I think that Endless Quiver should be 100 %. I think you should remove super powerful arrows OR they should at least be considered when making bow upgrades in specific tiers.
Whatever happens with this, the fletching revamp is most likely fucked.
If rangers were at some point given an endless quiver of high end arrows, fletching could be revamped again around this. Several ideas:
-reduce the price of arrow reagents to account for the new lower tier market
-add more useful range items crafted by fletchers
-add type 4 bow augs crafted by fletchers (see above)
-add some pristine bonus to crafting arrows yourself that could be slightly better than the endless quiver arrows (like 13dmg vs 12) (also see above)
-add ammo slot items usable by all classes that have charges of a useful spell like stun, heals, etc--maybe these items could have the arrow graphic as their icon
It seems unanimous that rangers want, at least at some point, to not have to pay for their dps and/or not have to deal with the inconvenience of consumable ammo. The several rangers that I've discussed the CoD weapon with (that didn't yet have it) were all under the impression that it would relieve them of paying for their dps.
Months ago I talked with Fell about the sword (before the runic2 change) and he seemed annoyed that he had to melee so much but still used the sword because it freed him of the crafted arrows. As the only ranger I've ever seen with this sword equiped, I wonder what he thinks of all this. I also wonder what Tao thinks.
-reduce the price of arrow reagents to account for the new lower tier market
-add more useful range items crafted by fletchers
-add type 4 bow augs crafted by fletchers (see above)
-add some pristine bonus to crafting arrows yourself that could be slightly better than the endless quiver arrows (like 13dmg vs 12) (also see above)
-add ammo slot items usable by all classes that have charges of a useful spell like stun, heals, etc--maybe these items could have the arrow graphic as their icon
It seems unanimous that rangers want, at least at some point, to not have to pay for their dps and/or not have to deal with the inconvenience of consumable ammo. The several rangers that I've discussed the CoD weapon with (that didn't yet have it) were all under the impression that it would relieve them of paying for their dps.
Months ago I talked with Fell about the sword (before the runic2 change) and he seemed annoyed that he had to melee so much but still used the sword because it freed him of the crafted arrows. As the only ranger I've ever seen with this sword equiped, I wonder what he thinks of all this. I also wonder what Tao thinks.
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Tarutao
Staff Emeritus
If someone wants to talk Fletching revamp, I'm listening. However, it's going to need to be a fully-fleshed out and fully-detailed description on everything, though. If you can do it all in under 30 double-spaced pages, you've not done enough.
If you have to, go parse on moss snakes for damage numbers, run all the numbers for costs at varying charisma and faction, and remember that the chance to succeed a Fletching combine that trivials at Y skill when attempted at a modified Fletching skill of X is 100-3.5(Y-X) percent, with a cap of 100% and a floor ot 0%, and with some possible rounding issues and the calculations not being actually done in that order.
Keep all of that in mind with our current client as well as with the someday-hoped-for SoD 3.0 client upgrade. Make sure to include:
-All the details (like these)of all the items (and assign numbers to those items since duplicate names may occur and differentiating them may be necessary)
-All of the recipes (ingredients, success items, failure items, and trivial level should suffice if in a Fletching Kit)
-In game book texts
-Vendor layouts
-Numbers for damage and cost for balance/equality reasons
-Extra details like any items that aren't vendor bought, what exact sources they have, drop rates, etc.
-How extant arrows will be affected: Do we just delete all arrows from inventories or do we do something else with them? What about special arrows like ones summoned from magicians, summoned from items, dropped ones like Just One, the arrows from Spires, the dropped arrows from ToT, and those mega-awesome ones made from items dropped in ToT that had the unforunate result of me scrapping the idea of having multiple bane damages on a single arrow (yes, construct/clockwork/plant bane arrows were at one point intended to be one in the same)? Do those get removed or changed (and if so what do they get changed into)?
I think everyone here is underestimating the work involved in planning a tradeskill from scratch. It takes a lot of time and thought and preparation and deleting and redoing. That's why there's pieces of fletching revamps between 2005 and 2009 that were started by other people that either didn't get finished or got scrapped as not good enough to be implemented. If you are up for the challenge, though, I'm not against a revamp that upstages mine.
Point taken. I'm glad we have you and not me. Letting it go and returning to my lazy dps ivory tower.
