Placeholder Class Tomes

eqaddix_diosa3 said:
Wow, Jarh nailed it. This is why we avoid the forums, nothing but flames and bullshit like "we can kill T13 monsters and you can't ..... ne ner ne ner ne ner. How childish.

The fact that FwF has killed T13 monsters is irrelevant here, that is NOT the discussion. The discussion is the fact that PHer tomes are in the game and do NOTHING but take up valuable loot space.

That has nothing to do with sharnree or taeshlin, who the hell cares.

The tome trade in quest has nothing to do with PHer tomes still in the game.

Yes it would be nice to have these once implemented, but will they be???? We have yet to get an answer on that from the staff. THAT is the point.

It would be nice for the staff that knows something about this to reply with some actual usefull information. Are PHer tomes scheduled to be worked on? When? If not why can we not remove these?
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This post is similar to a reason a lot of folks turn OOC off, cause of CW e-peening. So,.....nice try. I do have to agree getting ph tomes suck "right now", but better then having to come back later.
 
eqaddix_diosa3 said:
Wow, Jarh nailed it. This is why we avoid the forums, nothing but flames and bullshit like "we can kill T13 monsters and you can't ..... ne ner ne ner ne ner. How childish.

The fact that FwF has killed T13 monsters is irrelevant here, that is NOT the discussion. The discussion is the fact that PHer tomes are in the game and do NOTHING but take up valuable loot space.

That has nothing to do with sharnree or taeshlin, who the hell cares.

The tome trade in quest has nothing to do with PHer tomes still in the game.

Yes it would be nice to have these once implemented, but will they be???? We have yet to get an answer on that from the staff. THAT is the point.

It would be nice for the staff that knows something about this to reply with some actual usefull information. Are PHer tomes scheduled to be worked on? When? If not why can we not remove these?
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and thanks to your inability to have a logical discussion of anything other than "fwf is mean to us!" i can assure you that most people are probably pleased with your decision to avoid the forums. i am sorry that not everyone is agreeable and nice to you at all times.

PH tomes were something that the people who came through before you had to beg for essentially. after a spirited campaign, slaar finally agreed to add them to the game on the condition that we wouldn't use it as leverage against him later (ie. no asking for us to be able to exp them, and no promises they would be implemented as real tomes in any sort of timeline)

not only that, but opuses and class tomes were both made much easier to obtain along the way. you are looking at it like PH tomes are screwing you, when really, in the pre-PH tome days, you would have gotten less class tomes AND opuses!

let's say 2 years ago in a month if you killed 30 bosses, you'd have a 50/50 shot at class tomes - so average 15 class tomes, 15 opuses + whatever trash opuses, which by the way did not drop from ghan, gruniet, oktar, maybe something else i'm forgetting too. also consider the last 2 bosses in the zone didn't drop any books at all.
these days you'll get 30 class tomes guaranteed and, from what I saw, bosses average 1-2 opuses now? even being real conservative we'll say 30 class tomes 30 opuses.

also, you guys seem to be completely ignoring the point of PH tomes. without them you would have potentially a much bigger problem later on. let's say they add a new class tome (like they did for wizards, maybe someone else too idr) and you are progressed past tur'ruj, and new people are raiding it. now you are forced to go backgear if you want any hope of getting that tome, and it's extremely rare on top of it. this is a bad thing for everyone involved. right now, you have a shot to get the future tomes at least. also, I believe it was stated that PH tomes are rarer than implemented tomes, so the 31% figure or whatever isn't accurate.

PH tomes are a good idea and i think it's short-sighted and frankly a little bit insulting to come here and complain about the tome situation, when huge concessions were made to make the whole tome-obtaining game much easier than it once was. sometimes you don't get what you want easily, sometimes you have to work for it, and in this game sometimes you just have to be lucky. that is the essence of the game and part of the reason why it can be so rewarding to finally achieve your goals.
 
And please make Turruj tomes and all opuses tradable for the people that can't be bothered with this.
 
Kildaro said:
Everything in this thread is meaningless aside from the anticipated authoritative response from staff.
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Especially this, which could be said in any thread about anything pertaining to game mechanics/future changes.
 
I'm confused of why people boasting of their nerd skills has anything to do with the drop rates/implementation or lack there of for the class tome ph's. If its not constructive to the post title try to keep all chillville related comments out.

This topic is not about who killed or hasn't killed T13
 
Also as far as what ever the reason was to add the ph tomes or to take them away can't be balanced around a guild that no longer actively plays, since CW/SB are the ones actually playing and not just trolling forums.
 
Gargate said:
Also as far as what ever the reason was to add the ph tomes or to take them away can't be balanced around a guild that no longer actively plays, since CW/SB are the ones actually playing and not just trolling forums.
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I am having a tough time understanding this post. Just because FWF was the only guild at the time to be raiding Tur'Ruj does not mean it was catered specifically to our guild. Staff makes decisions based on what is in the best interest to the game, we just happened to be the only guild that the change impacted at the time. Now this change is impacting you, and so here you are, making your case. That's fair, that's what this forum is for. We also have the right to explain what our supporting arguments for the change were, and why it benefits you (light-hearted troll posts aside).

Look at it this way, these placeholder tomes are not "useless" or "rot" until either A) no one in the raid can loot said tome, or B) staff determines that they don't want to implement these tomes. In the instance of B), I imagine staff would make amends for all of the placeholder tomes that did drop in some fashion (again, speculation here).

Now imagine scenario C), where placeholder tomes never existed, and you have been farming Tur'Ruj for 10 months. You start making progress on new content, but there are now 1-2 other guilds progressing into Tur'Ruj. The staff puts new class tomes into the game (lets assume 1:1 ratio here of new tome:placeholder tomes in game now to give you an idea) and you are now looking at dozens of tomes that your raid roster wants/needs. The problem here? You have already farmed this content for 10 months, now you are maybe looking at another 10-12 months or more to get these other tomes because there is now competition for the content.

Put aside your preconceived ideas of what the motivation is here for retired players whose likelihood of playing actively again is very, very low, and follow the logic.
 
I still troll in-game but people were trying to imply and to claim that you need the existing class tome 3/4 to progress (you don't) and that placeholders are altogether bad and an impediment to progress. If players like Bloog can be taken to T13 content when he's high as a kite 24/7 then you can probably kill these monsters if you really try and if you pretend you're a real boy.
 
I guess you didn't understand it but I thought it was pretty clear.

Every argument out of FORMER players is that it was set that way because its what they asked for, well those players do NOT play anymore and the current players are asking for it to be reviewed. Also it amuses me you just assume I agree with them because we are in the same guild or that I'm not in yours.

What I would like to see happen

1: leave PH tomes in, if they become active then people have them.

2: class 3/4 tomes and opus's should be tradeable in guild like old thaz quest armor pieces, YAY no more rot tomes because the class isn't there.

3: add in an NPC or dialogue to an existing NPC that allows people to trade in unwanted class 3/4 tomes or opus's preferably in the refugee camp and only if ally.

Problem solved win win all around, old FWF people who don't play still get to have what they wanted and current players get what they want.


EDIT: zapple T13 has nothing to do with the topic, pretty sure its purely about PH tomes not raid progression, as in the several posts that mention ph class 1/2 tomes that drop from 6 mans and named in exp zones.
 
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Gargate said:
I guess you didn't understand it but I thought it was pretty clear.

Every argument out of FORMER players is that it was set that way because its what they asked for, well those players do NOT play anymore and the current players are asking for it to be reviewed. Also it amuses me you just assume I agree with them because we are in the same guild or that I'm not in yours.

What I would like to see happen

1: leave PH tomes in, if they become active then people have them.

2: class 3/4 tomes and opus's should be tradeable in guild like old thaz quest armor pieces, YAY no more rot tomes because the class isn't there.

3: add in an NPC or dialogue to an existing NPC that allows people to trade in unwanted class 3/4 tomes or opus's preferably in the refugee camp and only if ally.

Problem solved win win all around, old FWF people who don't play still get to have what they wanted and current players get what they want.


EDIT: zapple T13 has nothing to do with the topic, pretty sure its purely about PH tomes not raid progression, as in the several posts that mention ph class 1/2 tomes that drop from 6's and named in exp zones.
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The arguments are not just from former players there are those of us that still play that are argueing against you. Some of us even raid turruj and have to deal with the same 'issue'

1) Good idea
2) Terrible idea, if you want loot you have to raid.
3) This was there, and was removed. I agree that this is a good idea but I like the pre-req. of having to kill Rujik. That is the reward for winning the zone.
 
You can actually buy class 1/2s though, through tokening. I ended up having to do that before PH tomes because mine never dropped and were never for sale except that one bad tome that later got made ok by mitigating and converting unresistable spells to mana at a lowered rate.

The entire premise of this thread (see first page) is this idea that a "style is being cramped" if you will and progress hindered because placeholder tomes are dropping instead of class 3/4s that are already implemented.

Personally I think the trade-in system would be great if it were implemented but again you would have to be able to kill that big orc guy with the flaming axe at the end of the zone anyway.

Conclusion:

foa0SEe.jpg
 
Weird how Moraelintz said " arguing against you." (don't worry I fixed the typo instead of quoting)

How can they argue with me when I agreed with them about the class tome ph's staying in?

as far as the tomes being open to trade in guild, well no one seemed to mind about Thaz quest armor, Not to mention eliminate rot tomes.

Zapple by class 1/2 I ment the PH class 1/2's sorry I didn't specify, my mistake.

For the record its my stand point when I was on more then super casual that our guild should have already been attempting the tougher targets, but how one guild/ guilds officers chooses to run a guild is up to that guild/ guild officers.

Lastly TBH I'm very confused about why people that quit care so much, I mean I understood when you guys played it was a rival thing but now whats the point? If its relevant to the subject okay sure but e-peening about nerd skills only shits up a thread making it impossible for staff to read.

Edit: anti don't tease I would want that ;p
 
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Tarutao said:
The truly disheartening thing here is that instead of addressing the issue raised the senior GM joins the trolls who have a go at CW for not being adventurous enough.
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fixed

It does seem a little harsh to criticise the only guild that is regularly and successfully raiding at high level at the moment. I agree we could be more adventurous but we play the game to enjoy it not to have bragging rights about how cool we are.

Placeholder tomes were a good idea when it was likely that they would be implemented in a matter of months. At the moment I understand that the team are (quite rightly) prioritising the new client. Would it be so much effort to replace the placeholders with useful class tomes that could maybe even be traded to other guild members on petition if not needed by that person?
 
Obscenitor said:
Now imagine scenario C), where placeholder tomes never existed, and you have been farming Tur'Ruj for 10 months. You start making progress on new content, but there are now 1-2 other guilds progressing into Tur'Ruj. The staff puts new class tomes into the game (lets assume 1:1 ratio here of new tome:placeholder tomes in game now to give you an idea) and you are now looking at dozens of tomes that your raid roster wants/needs. The problem here? You have already farmed this content for 10 months, now you are maybe looking at another 10-12 months or more to get these other tomes because there is now competition for the content.
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Just one question for scenario C... why restrict to Tur'Ruj if reintroduced? I completely see the competition being an issue if only reintroduced to one zone, but adding class tomes to other similarly tiered content would get around that. Would it be a lore issue?
 
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I'm pretty sure that the next wave of Ikkisith content was/is supposed to have more opus droppers too based on some old staff posts.
 
For all this talk in favor of removing PH tomes, there's an awful lot of information in this thread and in threads of FWF asking for them to be added that quite thoroughly details the origins and reasons for PH tomes. Tarutao obviously read this thread (he posted in it), and he was part of the decision to introduce them in the first place. As the case for PH tomes has become blatantly stronger since then, this post is merely an exercise in a few members of CW wanting to be catered to in a way that has been mathematically shown to be both inferior and detrimental to future guilds raiding Turruj. You don't need staff to just acquiesce to your demands; you need to actually formulate an argument based on logic and facts instead of resorting to personal attacks.

Speaking of which, Tarutao (and everyone in FWF) had been complaining about tier 9+ guild complacency for years. Calling him out for being ciritical as "senior GM" (GM-Admin) is a strawman because you have no basis or support for your request other than "I want it." Drop the act.

Also, in reply to marshak and Dinadass: there's no demand for Ikisith phase 2 if there is no one to do the content. This goes back again to the fact that FWF was ready for it over 2 years ago, but no one else has gotten there since then. I wouldn't be holding my breath for said content to be released in time to be relevant to this discussion. That's even considering how long class tomes have been waiting to be fully implemented.

Oh yeah, even though I could just call Taru and get his reasons, I'll ask it here. Why does Tarutao still do this lead GM crap? It's a terrible, time-consuming job that's not even thankless; it results in regular personal attacks and harassment. Wasn't over 3 years of it enough? Come achievement-whore on WoW with me.
 
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