Placeholder Class Tomes
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eqaddix_diosa3
Dalayan Adventurer
I posted the below a while back, this problem is very serious and very annoying to guilds at this tier. We still have several of these drop a week from our raids.
It is really disappointing when you kill a T12 monster to get a PH tome. We've been in Turruj forever now with people missing their tomes because of PH ones. Not only can you not exp the tomes, they have been going to be implemented forever now.
When you kill a monster the reward is loot/tomes. When you get a tome no one in the raid can use sucks, when you get a tome that NO ONE IN THE GAME can use it's even worse.
I say remove the class rank 3 and 4 tomes from all Turruj loot tables until they are implemented. And further more remove the rank 2 PH ones from things like Claw Commander so when you kill the monster you at least get a reward someone can use.
When you kill a monster the reward is loot/tomes. When you get a tome no one in the raid can use sucks, when you get a tome that NO ONE IN THE GAME can use it's even worse.
I say remove the class rank 3 and 4 tomes from all Turruj loot tables until they are implemented. And further more remove the rank 2 PH ones from things like Claw Commander so when you kill the monster you at least get a reward someone can use.
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eqaddix_diosa3
Dalayan Adventurer
31% percent chance getting a PHer class 3 or 4 tome on a raid boss...
this is bad
this is bad
I raided in Tur`ruj regularly from ~April 2012 through December 2012, and now am at it again ever since June 2013. I am still missing both Overwhelming Calm III and Overwhelming Calm IV, which rank among the most important tomes for my class. I maintain stellar attendance on raiding, too. I'm okay with waiting patiently for these tomes to drop for me some day, but I suspect I might've come into possession of at least one of them by now had so many kills not yielded these pesky placeholder tomes.
Maybe I was being naive, but I took hours of my time to flesh out and organize a very lengthy thread based solely on new, somewhat quirky ideas for each and every placeholder tome last month, but only one dev replied. My ideas might not have been much better than the next person's, but I was at least hoping that someone "in power" might chime in on the status of placeholder tomes, even if only to say something along the lines of, "Thanks for the ideas, but we are currently not planning on doing anything with these tomes because the implementation of more tomes presents a substantial class balance problem. Placeholder tomes will remain in game until further notice." Granted, that wouldn't have been the outcome I'd have liked to hear, but it would at least give the players a bit of an authoritative word to go off of.
Will Slaar, Tao, or Waldoff please speak to the current status of these tomes? Have the changes on the dev team since Ikisith's release rendered placeholder tomes "off limits" for current devs to work on? Is something secret in store for placeholder tomes? Are new tome ideas, even modest ones, worth posting at this point?
Maybe I was being naive, but I took hours of my time to flesh out and organize a very lengthy thread based solely on new, somewhat quirky ideas for each and every placeholder tome last month, but only one dev replied. My ideas might not have been much better than the next person's, but I was at least hoping that someone "in power" might chime in on the status of placeholder tomes, even if only to say something along the lines of, "Thanks for the ideas, but we are currently not planning on doing anything with these tomes because the implementation of more tomes presents a substantial class balance problem. Placeholder tomes will remain in game until further notice." Granted, that wouldn't have been the outcome I'd have liked to hear, but it would at least give the players a bit of an authoritative word to go off of.
Will Slaar, Tao, or Waldoff please speak to the current status of these tomes? Have the changes on the dev team since Ikisith's release rendered placeholder tomes "off limits" for current devs to work on? Is something secret in store for placeholder tomes? Are new tome ideas, even modest ones, worth posting at this point?
Moraelintz
Dalayan Elder
The thing about the PH tomes is like this, people will complain now that they are not active or later when the times become active and are amazing and have to back farm to get them.
I think if there is a possibility that they will become something soon leave as is, but if nobody is even considering anything for them then freeze them off the mobs loot tables across the board.
I think if there is a possibility that they will become something soon leave as is, but if nobody is even considering anything for them then freeze them off the mobs loot tables across the board.
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
The main loot out of Turruj is supposed to be the tomes. A 31% chance to get a 100% useless tome is ridiculous. If a placeholder(most likely never to be implemented) loot were to drop out of any other zone in place of a normal item people would be angry and think it was ridiculous. Placeholder 3 and 4 tomes need to either be implemented or removed from the loot table
cian2
Dalayan Master
seriously. this thread cracks me up. i heard sharn'ree drops class tomes now!
sheer1
Dalayan Elder
it took ~2 years of raiding turruj for me to get all the bard rank 3/4 class tomes.
also i got three with the rujik junk tome turn in thing that i dont think exists anymore. not like that is relevant to this thread though cause no one kills him or sharn'ree anyway just what i heard.
also i got three with the rujik junk tome turn in thing that i dont think exists anymore. not like that is relevant to this thread though cause no one kills him or sharn'ree anyway just what i heard.
Does he also drop placeholder tomes?
Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
The reward for killing Sharn'Ree these days is he regurgitates an entire chillville thread of yore. With specific weighting given to any thread started by/containing CW and their drivel.
Edit: consider PH tomes dropping our gift to you. You are welcome.
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sheer1
Dalayan Elder
also keep in mind if PH tomes didnt exist, when (assuming they will eventually) those classes finally got their class tomes created, you would have to go back farm for them anyway. now that people no longer want PH tomes you can't just get rid of them.
overall PH tomes save time.
Edit: consider Bango america's gift to the earth. also space.
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
IIRC Turruj was made by Cyzaine(I think, I could be wrong), and his idea for the zone was for the main motivation/loot to be tomes. Just because marza goes and makes some oddball monster doesnt mean the rest of the zone should be punished
EDIT: http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=24397&highlight=placeholder+tomes Thread made almost 2 years ago, and there has not been any changes to make the tomes do anything at all, after numerous other threads filled with ideas for the tomes, Grinkles made a super long Megathread, and it has even been suggested to just let the tomes be filled with exp. It seems pretty clear that they are not being implemented any time soon
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Animand
Dalayan Elder
When it was just FWF doing this content and just Marza making it, it was understandable if things were a bit rough around the edges until there was time to sort things out. However, to give you a timeline of FWF doing this content, here's a post by Tarutao: http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showpost.php?p=279681&postcount=23
Now that Exodus had gotten to the Shar`Nok tribe and CW is active in the zone, and it's been over 2 years since Turruj was cleared, it's pretty disheartening to see these placeholders as still just IOUs. We see that balancing is still being actively worked on, with Tarutao's tier 9-11 mega-thread, Paladin aggro recently, and bane changes from 4 months ago. We notice Thaz was a huge project to fill some holes, even though it seems to go unused. However, it often seems that while discussion has been active and lively on the boards, there just isn't that much of substance to a high-end raider to come of the talking.
I understand that stuff IS being worked on. Just understand that it can also seem like not much is really getting done when certain chronic problems are obviously swept under the rug. Class tomes came with Ikisith: Secrets of the Razad (phase 1) being released February 2010, which was 3 1/2 years ago. It's just hard to not feel discouraged looking at that number.
On a separate note, I'd like to formally suggest that CW and its members take advantage of the opportunity to ask former FWF people about things why placeholder tomes exist and why we fought so hard for this thing they want reverted. We have explanations, detailed math, and even often empirical data to explain our positions. Some of you should go back and remember how you felt a year or two ago about FWF's activism regarding these issues you're now facing. Very few of you wanted to hear our crap. Well, now I'm seeing some of the same frustration and confusion from you that we felt. I bet you would be greatly surprised at how much we empathize with your position. Group hug?
Now that Exodus had gotten to the Shar`Nok tribe and CW is active in the zone, and it's been over 2 years since Turruj was cleared, it's pretty disheartening to see these placeholders as still just IOUs. We see that balancing is still being actively worked on, with Tarutao's tier 9-11 mega-thread, Paladin aggro recently, and bane changes from 4 months ago. We notice Thaz was a huge project to fill some holes, even though it seems to go unused. However, it often seems that while discussion has been active and lively on the boards, there just isn't that much of substance to a high-end raider to come of the talking.
I understand that stuff IS being worked on. Just understand that it can also seem like not much is really getting done when certain chronic problems are obviously swept under the rug. Class tomes came with Ikisith: Secrets of the Razad (phase 1) being released February 2010, which was 3 1/2 years ago. It's just hard to not feel discouraged looking at that number.
On a separate note, I'd like to formally suggest that CW and its members take advantage of the opportunity to ask former FWF people about things why placeholder tomes exist and why we fought so hard for this thing they want reverted. We have explanations, detailed math, and even often empirical data to explain our positions. Some of you should go back and remember how you felt a year or two ago about FWF's activism regarding these issues you're now facing. Very few of you wanted to hear our crap. Well, now I'm seeing some of the same frustration and confusion from you that we felt. I bet you would be greatly surprised at how much we empathize with your position. Group hug?
cian2
Dalayan Master
i dont empathize at all. we had to deal with bosses dropping class tome OR opus. these days they drop both. we had to deal with opuses being from trash and several tribes not dropping any at all. the overall number of books is probably literally triple what we got when we did turruj. CW has also been farming turruj for much longer than fwf ever did, yet somehow we managed to survive without a bajillion tomes. also I think it's kind of insulting to the devs.
also, who cares? what is the point of having tomes if you just use them to keep farming the same thing over and over again. i guess it made sense when you guys were our farm team, but even those days are over
Honestly I think even crappy generic class tomes would be cool for the mean time. Having something to put xp into would definitely be better then the current situation. It could be a 1% bonus to random thing that class does per tome and would be cool and worth doing. Then when it comes time to implement the actual tome just switch code or whatever.
I bet that a lot of the reluctance to finish class tomes comes from the fact 3.0 will change a lot of that anyway. However in the meantime it would be cool if they at least did something.
Also I always thought 'Runes' would be cool. They would be similar to tomes but you can only have a single Rune active at a time. You would be able to switch runes once every X hours using /cm rune #. Runes would allow someone to customize their class and allow the devs to have cool ideas without making them overpowered. If you can only have one rune active at a time, it cuts down on the crazy stuff and gives the devs more control. Plus there would be no worries about a player finishing every Rune and becoming a demigod. Runes would also have drawbacks but allow class customization to be increased.
I bet that a lot of the reluctance to finish class tomes comes from the fact 3.0 will change a lot of that anyway. However in the meantime it would be cool if they at least did something.
Also I always thought 'Runes' would be cool. They would be similar to tomes but you can only have a single Rune active at a time. You would be able to switch runes once every X hours using /cm rune #. Runes would allow someone to customize their class and allow the devs to have cool ideas without making them overpowered. If you can only have one rune active at a time, it cuts down on the crazy stuff and gives the devs more control. Plus there would be no worries about a player finishing every Rune and becoming a demigod. Runes would also have drawbacks but allow class customization to be increased.
Tarutao
Staff Emeritus
The truly disheartening thing here is that they're going to have some difficulty working out a strat for Sharn`ree because they are actually so powerful now that they will have to figure out times to stop DPS and just wait for mechanics.