Paladin Aggro Thread

Mid tier warrior dps went up with the stamina changes they got, but after that happened Spirit Harvest got nerfed hard so every high tier warrior lost a big chunk of dps there. It also depends on the fight and number of mobs being tanked though since ripostes are a big part of it.
 
Having played my paladin for a long time before getting zealous might, I can definitively say that paladins without runic2 can spam their hearts out of every possible combination of blinds, stuns, flame of light, bash, taunt, legplates of vituperation, and still lose aggro immediately on the first backstab or big Hellnuke. They just plain suck at aggro. Runic 2 changes that. Its cool and overpowered and should probably be nerfed (from an administrative standpoint) when compared to every other spell that paladins get. Getting this spell is like our equivalent of a warrior overhaul or SK having their spells improved, only it takes a lot more to acquire it than just logging in.
 
I have mained a paladin here since starting the game. What with my raging tradeskill addiction, I rarely play any alts. I agree wholeheartedly that our aoe agro sucks bollocks and should be bumped. I liken this to when rangers got autofire because it shoulda been done long ago, not to some complicated warriors vs. paladins vs. SKs. I don't think paladins should be tougher than warriors, nor have better single target agro than an SK. However, what you hear CONSISTANTLY in regards to the class is they have the best aoe agro. Which is not always true.

I propose an exceedingly simple solution that has nothing to do with heals. Give us more aoe blinds scattered throughout the levels, make them unresistable, more powerful on hate, and fix the cruddy cool down. This is not OP, it doesn't make us hit harder or be tougher than a warrior. What it does is give us back our role in group as an aoe tank to keep the casters from getting mashed at ALL levels of play, not just T10 or higher. If you do this and I'm in a group with a warrior, I can assist him and hit his target and aoe blind so that I'm the person getting smacked instead of the chanter/druid etc. I'm helping kill whatever mob has been targetted while leaving the casters free to mezz, heal or whatever, because I've created agro with no damage. I'm helping without interfering with anyone else's group role. I call this a win for all.
 
With proper aggro management I have never ha a serious issue with any of the tank classes and aggro if anything needs addressed its the minimal difference in mitigation and avoidance between the three classes. Warriors should mitigate and avoid the most followed by sks and then paladins as they have superior heals to patch and keep them alive.
 
Yeah Runic2 is what makes high end pallies bearable. I was in an Everchill exp group a couple days ago with Ringo tanking and basically I ended up tanking whichever mob I was DPSing because otherwise I would cause assist penalties due to having to feign at 80% and then again at ~50%. And it was someone competent on Ringo, I was attacking his target, etc.

It would probably be nice to maybe smooth out the single target aggro generation throughout a paladin's life rather than having it be relatively flat with a huge boost at the end that catches them up to where they should be.
 
obviously when you're doing your regular damage plus a proc that almost never gets resisted you wouldnt need to runic 2. not eveyone has a 100% proc rate weapon. If I had the 2HD bonus, better blocking skill than a shield, 100% proc rate there would be no reasoning for this thread.
 
also im sure when you were leveling with apros it was the time where mages were only dot bots. plus i dont believe i've had an issue w/ mages and over aggroing.
 
Yes when leveling I dd no where near the dps I do now, but even now without runic 2 Apros holds aggro just fine. The big thing is letting them build a little aggro before jumping into the mix, and that shouldn't be a paladin issue it's a dps issue. Also, we (fwf) killed many a nameds pre jyre an runic 2 with the bango tank it was just known you have to let him get aggro before laying into the mobs. Mages waited before nuking, rogues evade more, wizards concuss a bit more.

I am not opposed to giving paladins more as aggro but I do not think that is the issue or what is wrong with any of the tanks at this point in time.
 
I play an a crappy geared 65 pally at a very casual rate, and I posted some agro questions in the class area a few months back. Even with all the help (which is/was much appreciated!), my DPS really really crappy and I have to really fight to keep agro. If I get spell resists, I always lose agro to DPS (or even my meleeing cleric...)

A low end pally is pretty tough to stomach due to the painfully low dps and agro issues. I haven't played any of the other tanking classes, but I did play for many years on live. Maybe because of my time on live my perspective on how pally agro/dps should be is jaded. (We had some reasonable DPS on undead in live, especially in later expansions!)

I just thought I would give some perspective from beginner dalaya pally.
 
Daffie said:
I play an a crappy geared 65 pally at a very casual rate, and I posted some agro questions in the class area a few months back. Even with all the help (which is/was much appreciated!), my DPS really really crappy and I have to really fight to keep agro. If I get spell resists, I always lose agro to DPS (or even my meleeing cleric...)

A low end pally is pretty tough to stomach due to the painfully low dps and agro issues. I haven't played any of the other tanking classes, but I did play for many years on live. Maybe because of my time on live my perspective on how pally agro/dps should be is jaded. (We had some reasonable DPS on undead in live, especially in later expansions!)

I just thought I would give some perspective from beginner dalaya pally.
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I had some agro problems when i was leveling my paladin but i think also dps should realize what a paladin's agro is and not go balls to the wall max burn from the beginning of the fight. Smart DPS makes for a happy tank.
 
Ya know, to each their own on opinions and all that, and at least some of you have acknowledged that the agro problem is sometimes with the other player not waiting just a second, but it's not true that only bad non-Jyre/non-Bango paladins are the only ones with agro managment problems.

I main a paladin and I don't box, and I can count on one hand the times I've afk'd for more than 5 minutes during ANY encounter, raid or otherwise. This means I am AT my keyboard, paying attention and active pretty much at all times. I go through mana like a crappy car goes through oil, and I still can't keep agro. Yeah, I'm not top 5 paladin, but you shouldn't have to be in order to be effective at your class.

In terms of spells only, when playing in non-undead areas I have our one little DD spell, a single target stun, single target blind, aoe stun, aoe blind. The aoes will agro the mobs that aren't being targetted, but they don't last long, nearly anything will trump them, and the cast time and refresh both stink. If (for example) some ranger gets a bow crit on an off mob and because he didn't assist it pulls to him BEFORE my aoe finishes casting, I'm pretty well screwed for ever getting agro. By the time the spell has finished casting, the mob is oor and I can't cast it again until it almost doesn't even matter anymore. Is this the other player's fault? Sure....but all the party sees is the paladin can't keep agro. IMO we NEED to be able to do this at least somewhat despite the fact other players might could do this thing or the other better. It gives us a role that helps the group without taking anything away from another class. I just can't see this as a bad idea. To give you an idea of how much better it is to have one or two other aoe options that add agro, in undead areas I have access to undead damage spells, and there I CAN forcibly maintain agro in a lot more instances.
 
All I know is that someone playing Cinn and using WW stance was stealing AOE aggro from me whilst playing Uzzdarr in Catacombs. Unless I had Consecrate/Sanctify up. I mean I am not the best paladin I will admit it, but I'm definitely better than Xenion.
 
jew_nose_it said:
All I know is that someone playing Cinn and using WW stance was stealing AOE aggro from me whilst playing Uzzdarr in Catacombs. Unless I had Consecrate/Sanctify up. I mean I am not the best paladin I will admit it, but I'm definitely better than Xenion.
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loL!
 
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