Overcap Sneak Mod
- Thread starter Haenir
- Start date
daenar_sod
Dalayan Elder
Because the night is dark and full of terrors.
Haenir
Dalayan Master
To be entirely honest the idea stems from Grinkles linking a sneak item at me and me thinking oh neat, too bad it does absolutely nothing on a rogue past lvl 40.
Pros:
Pros:
- Gear diversity
- Improves skill w/ minimal effect on dps balance
- Faster corpse runs (and easier corpse runs for a few specific things where full speed would be nice)
- Strategic reason to keep sneak on during a fight (if high enough mods increase speed above normal run speed)
- Would add value for rogues of the races w/ innate sneak bonus
- Adds complexity
- Limited to classes w/ sneak (obviously benefiting rogues the most)
- Makes invis clickies less useful (particularly for rogues)
- Sneak works perfectly fine as is
- The utility of sneak is balanced by the loss in speed maybe?
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The server's ability to control a client's movement speed is pretty limited. The server gets to dictate your base movement speeds (for running and for walking, independently) when you enter a zone, but after that everything is in the client's hands -- buffs and worn effects and purely client-side modifiers (i.e. sneak) are the only things that influence it. So it would have to be a buff that kicks in when you start sneaking and fades when you stop. Or rather... 25 different buffs, one for each +1 overcap skill amount.
Haenir
Dalayan Master
Gross, definitely way too complex for what it would do.
daenar_sod
Dalayan Elder
buffs and worn effects and purely client-side modifiers (i.e. sneak) are the only things that influence it. So it would have to be a buff that kicks in when you start sneaking and fades when you stop. Or rather... 25 different buffs, one for each +1 overcap skill amount.
So I'm confused, you said worn effects then said it couldn't work as a worn and would need to be a buff. Is any worn effect working right now or are you guys doing something similar to the "buff for every point of skill" behind the scenes?
So I'm confused, you said worn effects then said it couldn't work as a worn and would need to be a buff. Is any worn effect working right now or are you guys doing something similar to the "buff for every point of skill" behind the scenes?
Haenir
Dalayan Master
Z means worn effects as in a spell effect that is actually on the item (rather than +skill) -- so what I read is you could probably make a worn effect item which modifies sneak speed but to make it scale based on the amount of +sneak you'd have to do that 25 different buffs thing.
Afaik outside of a few (mostly illusions) worn effects are still behaving like combat procs (meaning they aren't working when simply worn). I'd imagine efforts are being made to fix w/e is making worn effects act that way rather than w/e the hell you just described.
daenar_sod
Dalayan Elder
Whatever the hell I just described, aka all worn Shit like + double attack or + worn attack or +piercing. Is it working or not cause Z's post isn't clear. My original question was going to be "why can't it work like a normal worn effect?" but seeing as how some worn effects do nothing atm...
On the one hand he mentions buffs and worn effects and client-side modifiers that are the only things that can influence the game.
Immediately after he says "it would have to be a buff" which at least to me implies that normally functioning worn effects aren't working at all (read: acumen) and the only way to overcome this ***ATM*** is to do a sneaky behind-the-scenes code patch, where items that have +5 whatever, instead of functioning normally as a worn effect, now have to have "special" buff modifiers.
Seeing as how we know some worn effects do nothing (again read: acumen) i believe it's a valid question since he brought it up.
On the one hand he mentions buffs and worn effects and client-side modifiers that are the only things that can influence the game.
Immediately after he says "it would have to be a buff" which at least to me implies that normally functioning worn effects aren't working at all (read: acumen) and the only way to overcome this ***ATM*** is to do a sneaky behind-the-scenes code patch, where items that have +5 whatever, instead of functioning normally as a worn effect, now have to have "special" buff modifiers.
Seeing as how we know some worn effects do nothing (again read: acumen) i believe it's a valid question since he brought it up.
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Haenir
Dalayan Master
Seeing as these have nothing to do with run speed (which is what Z was talking about)....
I've parsed double attack (its overcap function and its skill mod for offhand) and piercing -- both are working. Worn attack also seems to be working server-side though not showing up in client, though my parses for worn attack were less significant than those for skill mods.
Inserting worn effects onto items you have equipped on the fly would be even more complicated than a buff. Which slot should the worn effect be inserted into? What if the item in that slot already has a worn effect? What happens when you unequip the item that the effect was inserted onto? What if you have nothing equipped, or nothing with a free slot for a worn effect? If your timing is bad, it's possible that inserting the worn effect onto an item at the moment you are unequipping it might eat the item (it would essentially be telling the client that a brand new item plopped into the slot). Etc, etc.
To be clear, the worn effect would have to disappear whenever you aren't sneaking, obviously.
To be clear, the worn effect would have to disappear whenever you aren't sneaking, obviously.
I have no idea of anything that might be working or not working since I haven't looked at the code in 3+ years and haven't been involved in dev stuff for at least as long. But:
* Skill modifiers aren't worn effects.
* Things like double attack and such are purely serverside, so there's no reason the server wouldn't be able to take any skill modifiers you have into account there.
* The number of things that the client is in charge of are relatively small. Movement speed is one of those things. Vision effects are another. If acumen isn't working I imagine it's because the devs weren't aware of how spells on items are handled in the newer client. In the old client, there was only one spot for spells on items, and then a field that would say "this is a proc", or "this is a clicky", or "this is a worn effect". In the new client, there are separate, dedicated slots for all of these things. So if Acumen is in the "proc" slot rather than the "worn effect" slot, the client wouldn't take it into account as a worn effect (for the small number of purely-clientside things that such an effect could influence), naturally.
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daenar_sod
Dalayan Elder
As always Zaela, you are awesome.