Non-non-item nerf thread

[Dimmi]

I mean this would solve 75% of everyones bitching this month! it seems to be the one thing people bitch about the most in the most recent 4 threads outside of chillville!

Fix'd

It's a bitchy community :toot:

Not that I think you're wrong....I mean there obviously needs to be better communication and organization behind the curtain. With some of the exceptional developers that make pixels on this server, collaboration could produce amazing babies.

Of course the handful of people bitching now will still bitch. Don't get me wrong.

 

[oozu1234]

Fix'd

It's a bitchy community :toot:

Not that I think you're wrong....I mean there obviously needs to be better communication and organization behind the curtain. With some of the exceptional developers that make pixels on this server, collaboration could produce amazing babies.

Of course the handful of people bitching now will still bitch. Don't get me wrong.

i agree!

 

[darksabbath]

Fix'd

It's a bitchy community :toot:

Not that I think you're wrong....I mean there obviously needs to be better communication and organization behind the curtain. With some of the exceptional developers that make pixels on this server, collaboration could produce amazing babies.

Of course the handful of people bitching now will still bitch. Don't get me wrong.

Dimmi just won the thread...

 

[Boehm]

I appreciate Slaariel's post and understand his reasoning. I think Kaz and Tao summed it up best. I would like to say that I enjoyed every bit of every raid by every dev when i played. ( well, except the ones with perfect spell reflect. Yawn ) I even enjoyed farming my supreme for 8 months playing other people' characters, and the three years of effort it took to complete vah back as a caster.

That said, I hate Marza. His end game content is so compelling and fun, and so hard each and every time requiring every class, even when totally geared with the items, that i am completely unable to raid in another game. I spend my days, hoping 18 competent friends would play again. Thaz 1 & 2 come close. Spires, prime enchanter zone, and Undercity are amazing, but Marza's content is insane and painstakingly unforgiving.

If anything else comes of this, please do not nerf these hard and attention requiring events, so that someone can farm them with boxes. As they stand now, they require an entire guild's attention of real players and I think that is appropriate.


<3

 

[Jotigidou]

IF your talking to me, no i quit, If i was still playing id prolly go after Akarn 1hb. For the magic focus, 20 mana upgrade and 5mind / stun resist

Either was i just wanted to make my point, Marza your content / items have made this server an awesome place i dont want you or anyone to step down, i would just like nurfs and major shit not to be hidden from the public untill we log in and go WTF you know?




Edit*** i know it comes off as an attack at the Dev's / GM's of this server, that is not my intentions, Either way i give you all prop's for stepping up and doing this on your own free time, I just wanted the point to be made that even tho this is a free server, The people who get to end game and are effected by these changes wont take shit like this lightly. Its not that hard to spend 15-20 mins a week writing up a report on what you have done and posting it on the forums or whatever. People like to know the little changes all the way to the big.

You mean that you ''lost'' countless of your hours and your guild's hours gearing up to get one item and then quit because its been nerfed?

Yeah we got it.

 

[cian2]

i own probably more of the nerfed items than anyone (crystalis, cella, NZ ring, 4.3 robe, sharnree staff, rohk tome, rujik mask, am i missing anything?) and all i can say is:

haha europe

 

[Obscenitor]

rohk tome

Hasn't been changed yet, but I hope it gets turned into something cool instead of just nerfing it by 50% or whatever (not that I will come back and farm one regardless..)

 

[Abelfaec]

I guess you should nerf these super amazing GM items:
- Queen's Grace
- The Funeral's March

I really don't see how putting run speed on an item is a problem, other then "we made this rule for some reason a long time ago, we must follow it forever"

I guess I understand the other changes. The main problem is how slow you guys take to shape the game to your "vision". It really seems like you guys don't play the game, or at least spent very little of your time on the game in general.

BREAKING NEWS: I guess it is now "bad" to use more then one [Lore Item] Augmentation in your gear. Rohk, The Traitorous Hand was put into the game almost a year ago and people have been using the same Augmentation that is "best" for their class in both their Legs and Chest ever since. Not one person knew this was NOT intended since they are limited to only 2 slots. It's just so lame for everyone on the server to have such a small dumb nerf given to them just because you woke up one day and felt that it's "wrong" for the server.

/\ this made my day.

 

[sheer1]

any update on when Ortananoch will be made not terrible?

 

[Silosobi]

That said, I hate Marza. His end game content is so compelling and fun, and so hard each and every time requiring every class, even when totally geared with the items, that i am completely unable to raid in another game. I spend my days, hoping 18 competent friends would play again. Thaz 1 & 2 come close. Spires, prime enchanter zone, and Undercity are amazing, but Marza's content is insane and painstakingly unforgiving.

Vell said it really well.

The events that drop all these "OP" items are extremely difficult. Most of the items just were not too good relative to their difficulty. In fact, I personally, and a lot of other people complained a lot about many of marza's items being kind of meh. Marza said he didn't want or like all items to be equal and standard. He wanted some drops to be meh, and others to be great. Most of Marza's "great" items were the things with really cool/different/special effects. If it is deemed that cool and different and special effects are not allowed in the game, then they need something else added so they remain desirable.

These end game encounters truly feel epic. They feel like they should provide epic loot. When you spend multiple full raid days raiding with 18 of the best SoD players you know with everyone devoting full attention to learning and defeating an encounter. When you finally win its awesome. I remember killing sharn'ree, and seeing gloves/neck that were a pretty marginal upgrade from essence items (two tiers lower), but we kept killing the mob because it dropped a super cool staff that all our priests really wanted.

There are plenty of other items in the game that are really powerful and even game changing. They don't break the game. Our old EQ client is pretty restrictive, and having cool clickies and effects that change things around is fun. Look through any high-end character's bags and most of them will have numerous powerful clickies or swap items from across the tiers. Why it suddenly become unacceptable for Marza's content is confusing to me (ignoring the healing weapons, which probably did need a change). How does running faster change or break anything? How does a healer exp item / toy break anything? Yeah, they can do a lot of DPS with verdict, but it drains mana and damages them such that its rarely viable on on-tier raid content. How did double attack on healer items break anything?

At the end of the day, I think a lot of these nerfs were not about preventing game-breaking changes. They were about a perception of players getting too powerful, but without an understanding of how the raid progression feels from a player perspective. When you finally kill that super epic difficult mob it just feels like you should get something cooler than the same level of stat-upgrade as every other raid tier provides with a bunch of people two boxing and just kind of powering through despite sloppy play and mistakes and afk people and etc.

 

[cian2]

I don't really play anymore otherwise I'd probably make a more passionate post about this.

I spent about 5 months farming 4.3 robe. Getting it was probably my best memory of the game. Same for Sharn'ree verdict, I waited 6+ months for it to drop. Getting those two things were two of my favorite moments in the game. Now, no one can experience the feeling of finally obtaining these epic items.

 

[Silosobi]

I actually asked slaar about this earlier today and he kind of just said "wheres marza" "talk to marza".

That is depressing since Marza spent months balancing many of these items, changed them countless times, watched players use them on various encounters and gauged their power and adjusting them. Now someone else comes and nerfs them into oblivion(edit: this is mostly referring to robe and verdict, other items aren't as bad), way beyond anything that could be considered reasonable (that is, if you have actually played the raid game and know the challenges of the fights involved). And Marza is somehow supposed to fix them again?

How many times has content been destroyed and broken and etc because it needed to be "fixed", only to be left in a broken state indefinitely? SoD is probably the game that has given me more enjoyment than any other in my life, which is absolutely incredible for a free custom server, but so many recent changes just seem really questionable, ill thought out, and done by people who seem out of touch with the players and content. I'm really not trying to just dev-bash, you guys have done a lot of really amazing stuff, but this is the general sentiment I hear over and over from other players, and my old guildmates and friends when I try to suggest they come play again, and frankly its got a lot of truth to it.

 

[Slaariel]

Yeah, there is a lot of abandoned content we can only do what we do. I frankly do not know what would be appropriate stats for the robe and I think it is flawed by design (to be the best bp in the game for all 15 classes). Right now it's been changed to be merely incredibly OP for a few classes and less desirable for others. No matter how it ends up, some people are going to be sad because that is the only way out.

Also, please stop saying changes are being made by out of touch people or whatever. That has no traction with me and makes it difficult to respond fairly to any good points in your post.

 

[Slaariel]

Also, I really do want Marza to come back that was not a joke or being dismissive.

 

[Dimmi]

Yeah, there is a lot of abandoned content we can only do what we do. I frankly do not know what would be appropriate stats for the robe and I think it is flawed by design (to be the best bp in the game for all 15 classes). Right now it's been changed to be merely incredibly OP for a few classes and less desirable for others. No matter how it ends up, some people are going to be sad because that is the only way out.

Also, please stop saying changes are being made by out of touch people or whatever. That has no traction with me and makes it difficult to respond fairly to any good points in your post.

Paragraph pot, meet paragraph kettle?

 

[Silosobi]

I frankly do not know what would be appropriate stats for the robe and I think it is flawed by design (to be the best bp in the game for all 15 classes). Right now it's been changed to be merely incredibly OP for a few classes and less desirable for others. No matter how it ends up, some people are going to be sad because that is the only way out.

Why is that the only way out? It is only best in game because it is the very highest tier of content that has been defeated as of yet. It was intended to be highly desirable for everyone, because its so rare that there is no way everyone can get it.

There are numerous other all/all items that are arguably best in slot for everyone at the tier when they drop, if T14 and T15 content ever gets released there will certainly be better items than the robe.

As far as stats: CSI9 is a start, but it really needs more than just that. Probably a proc or or clicky that is caster-desirable. Also the human illusion thing definitely needs to be fixed!

 

[Slaariel]

The only item that is "so rare that there is no way that everyone can get it" in game currently is Jyre, Bango's sword. You cannot balance loot stats against this attribute (except for Jyre).

Also I think the pool of all/all best in slot items might be a lot smaller than you think.

 

[Silosobi]

If 4.3 is killed as soon as it spawns each time, approximately 3 robes will drop per year. There are far more than 3 people getting to high raid tiers per year, so you really can say that not everyone can get it. FWF killed it pretty much as soon as it spawned for about two full years to get the robes we did, and we got lucky. Countless people wanted it and killed the mob many many times and never got one.

Sure, there aren't a LOT of items like that, but they are out there. They don't break the game.

 

[sheer1]

stop talking about the robe solo, at least you are wearing it.

Lets make Ortananoch usable again.

A high tier semi quest reward that requires two raid boss drops and then a hard mode of another boss resulting in a 20/22 1hs with 2 magic damage, 7 bane dragon, and 220 hp is not good. It does still proc that dragon illusion which is fun but only during fashion week, in any other scenario that is of no use.

I'm not going to propose stats since i'm not a dev but it is the highest tier 1hs weapon available at this time, and requires more raid boss kills to get then any item other than jyre probably.

THANK YOU FRIEND

 

[Dimmi]

The only item that is "so rare that there is no way that everyone can get it" in game currently is Jyre, Bango's sword. You cannot balance loot stats against this attribute (except for Jyre).

Also I think the pool of all/all best in slot items might be a lot smaller than you think.

+1

4.3 can effectively be 5-man farmed. The robe still provides an obscene amount of AC doesn't it? I agree something "neat" feels missing, but in the immortal words of a rogue named Dimmi: That's a rogue BP! Silly damn casters :hmpf:

The custo-sword does need something done with it, and imo is a much higher level of travesty than the robe. I still see a lot of people wearing robes...nothing on dragonsword is worth using over Caretaker's Will. I don't wanna see this sword go the way of the vah final event sword (read, "Let's give it to a pet and see if pets can wield no-drops yet"), that would be shameful.

EDIT: Also, another thing to take into consideration is that to get the custodian sword, you have to get it on purpose. It's not something you got from the RNG (other than via the pre-combine swords)...it's a sword where you say "Yes we want that, and yes we're willing to put the effort into getting it, and making a fight much harder for no other reason than to obtain it." And I don't know if this changed or not, but afaik, when you activate hard mode, you can't turn it off until you beat it.