No Drop item rot on Raids :)

[cyberus]

If you have to drop your main to bot a "insert class here" you are implying that without you doing so the fight/encounter would not be winnable the other way around. That being the case if you played your main you would not have won the fight, and thus no one would've gotten loot.

 

[Gea]

As someone who never boxes I could say "so what" but..

Without the people who occasionally log on keyclasses there wouldn't be many raids to happen.

So yeah, this sucks. Thanks for spoiling the fun out of a GAME.

 

[Tempus]

If you have to drop your main to bot a "insert class here" you are implying that without you doing so the fight/encounter would not be winnable the other way around. That being the case if you played your main you would not have won the fight, and thus no one would've gotten loot.

Yea....but remember this is a game that is supposed to be fun? You sound so detatched, like someone who hasn't actually played SoD in a while. We know some classes in SoD are more valuable to raids than others, yet people initially create what they would enjoy playing. That means that the random mix of classes available in a guild every night dont always create an ideal raid force. Preventing a raiding guild from raiding creates a lot of sad pandas. Making a raid happen creates fun for your fellow players, and it's a sacrifice many players gladly make. This recent change prevents that person from advancing their real character, their alter-ego. There ceases the fun.

This is a hardass policy that creates more problem than it fixes. Re-institute level requirements, tighten the Mob Level -- Player Level loot requirement to 10, make OOCing rotting gear a bannable or jailable offense. Anything but this horribly abrasive new loot system.

While I am not sure how this has any bearing on the discussion, I play quite often. Do you realise that your argument negates itself? You say that the fun of the game is playing your "alter ego". Therefore, how can it be fun to bot another class on a raid just to login with your "alter ego" to loot. This does not prevent any raiding guilds from raiding. In fact, to back up your claim show me one raiding guild that has not raided since this change went into effect.

 

[Haphesto]

Do you realise that your argument negates itself? You say that the fun of the game is playing your "alter ego". Therefore, how can it be fun to bot another class on a raid just to login with your "alter ego" to loot.

:brow:

Playing a different character is a sacrifice (note I mentioned this earlier) one makes to their guild to improve a raid's chances of success. Being able to give one's real character (alter-ego) spoils of war makes it bearable. The real alter-ego character can be played later at raids that have all the needed classes. This looting change takes the consolation prize (occasionally looting with your main) away from taking one for the team.

This recent change prevents that person from advancing their real character, their alter-ego. There ceases the fun.

Clearer?

 

[Mythryn]

If its not fun don't play. Simple.

If your ranks are so full of unneeded classes (warriors and knights or bards [some of the worst stacking classes] for example) then your guild didn't recruit based on the guilds needs, but recruited to get numbers on raids up. Using effective recruiting methods and triming the fat will give you the proper number of each class you need, and you will probably end up with a few slots left over for some alts, or some not so needed classes, and players won't have to 'sacrifice' by logging their mained character off for a bot. That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard about.

EDIT: Also, if the raid window could be fixed so the raid leader could remove people from the raid (if they are online/in zone or not) would make the raids being bugged full a moot point.

 

[phlit]

Zhak don't shit up this thread. ( )
This is not about people being disadvantaged because they have 36 people at a raid or not. (In fact, that 'allowance' for camped alts to loot is about the single most stupid thing ever, entirely undermining the whole 'terrible' system. If the 'no fight no loot' system is to stay in place, and this 'in raid but camped' thing isn't removed, we'll know Wiz is simply being either lazy or bias.)

"...have the luxury of filling the rest of the raid with alt / bots to pick up rots." - This behaviour is *exactly* the behaviour I was under the impression Wiz wanted to stop.

Rab, it's apparently what you and people like you are doing that has caused this. And it's people like me who will suffer the most. For you, it's a case of 'oh no! no loot for my newb toon', where as for people in what is sometimes my situation it is a case of 'oh fuck! no loot for my main!'. See the difference? See why you care less?

Cyberus... Idk what you're smoking, but you're just shitting this up.

Jose, don't turn this in to a guild fracas, it's not needed. As I've said, should Wiz decide to keep this change (which he seems intent on doing, judging by the lack of discussion anymore), it'd be 100% wrong to allow the system 'work-around' of having a character in the raid but logged out. (Maybe a timer to save people who simply LD/crash?)

- Sure, some guilds have maxed attendance, and some guilds struggle to get the numbers they need for any particular raid. This change wasn't designed to harm these guilds, or effect them, it was designed to prevent 'silly twinking/selling' - from what I've read here, it's actually the 'honest' (*so says Wiz) guilds who are more disadvantaged by this than those who were doing the silly twinking... This is what it comes down to. And this is what is *clearly* unfair to anyone who is remotely able to comprehend the situation.

 

[Garluk]

Rab was just being a smartass with his Robb comments (as he has a tendency to do). It has been weeks (dating to well before this change was implemented) since I've seen anyone in Forsaken load an alt to loot a rotting raid drop.

We used to have quite a collection of raid stalkers when we did DHK, but this has stopped since we no longer raid there. But every day I was seeing multiple "Item xxxxx rotting at loc XX, YY in zone Zzz first there gets it". It's my opinion that this is what triggered the change more than anything else.

 

[Gea]

If its not fun don't play. Simple.

If you don't want people to have fun in a game, close the server. Even more simple and less of a hassle. See?

If your ranks are so full of unneeded classes (warriors and knights or bards [some of the worst stacking classes] for example) then your guild didn't recruit based on the guilds needs, but recruited to get numbers on raids up. Using effective recruiting methods and triming the fat will give you the proper number of each class you need, and you will probably end up with a few slots left over for some alts, or some not so needed classes, and players won't have to 'sacrifice' by logging their mained character off for a bot.

That may be true for you American slackers. This is NOT possible for the small european playerbase.

That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard about.

True!

 

[rab]

Rab was just being a smartass with his Robb comments (as he has a tendency to do). It has been weeks (dating to well before this change was implemented) since I've seen anyone in Forsaken load an alt to loot a rotting raid drop.

True!

Rab, it's apparently what you and people like you are doing that has caused this. And it's people like me who will suffer the most. For you, it's a case of 'oh no! no loot for my newb toon', where as for people in what is sometimes my situation it is a case of 'oh fuck! no loot for my main!'. See the difference? See why you care less?

What's the difference between getting an item on a main that didn't deserve it and getting an item on an alt that didn't deserve it?

 

[Mythryn]

If you want to get loot for your main, don't log them out for the raid. Its that fucking simple. A guild shouldn't depend on people loading bots over mains to beat encounters, even clerics/wizards. If your guild isn't fielding 3+ clerics and 4+ wizards a night, but is topping out at 36 people in the raid, sorry but your guild did something wrong.

 

[Gea]

*plonk* Jose for not reading.

I was even willing to apologize for the "slackers", but not anymore

 

[Haphesto]

What's the difference between getting an item on a main that didn't deserve it and getting an item on an alt that didn't deserve it?

So you would prefer that no one play a needed class for a raid and improve the raid's chances? Or if they do, acquire nothing for their real character in the process? Playing another toon is sometimes a necessary evil, just like Dual Boxing itself. Why are you defending the change? Because it doesnt personally affect you anymore? Same for Jose. If it doesn't affect you either way, great. But dont shit up the thread for those that it does.

 

[Gea]

sorry but your guild did something wrong.

This is the kind of attitude I read from many many guilds in another world. A world with thousands of players those guilds could pick from btw. And none, and I mean NOT A SINGLE one of those guilds do exist anymore.

So like some people said, if you are that ub0r and aren't concerned by the changes, get the heck out of this thread and leave it to the people who are. Thanks and good bye.

 

[phlit]

Rab, it's apparently what you and people like you are doing that has caused this. And it's people like me who will suffer the most. For you, it's a case of 'oh no! no loot for my newb toon', where as for people in what is sometimes my situation it is a case of 'oh fuck! no loot for my main!'. See the difference? See why you care less?

What's the difference between getting an item on a main that didn't deserve it and getting an item on an alt that didn't deserve it?[/quote]

The reason for this change (from the horses mouth):

The problem was that the amount of tmap, raid and other NO DROP gear flowing down to characters who should not have a chance at getting it was seriously on the rise (according to inventory queries ran and statistics collected), and removing required levels would not have been possible without this change because it'd get even worse.

Therefore, the difference in the way you mean is 100%, totally, completely, etc etc, irrelevant. This change was not so you couldn't bot a needed class. Boting has always happened on SoD, for obvious reasons, and it's a whole different argument. Wiz did this to stop young'uns getting stuff they shouldn't. What I, and a lot of people, are saying is that actually this change rather screws over people boting, hugely, which was not the intention of the change. And the change in-fact goes nowhere towards stopping people twinking alts or selling loot rights, because, as mentioned already, you can simply get em raidinvited before hand and all is fine for you...
So, all this does is make more hassle for everyone - but, crucially, especially for people who aren't causing the problem and are trying to help their guild in completely unrelated ways to the 'problem'.
Simple enough to get?
I dunno why there are so many tangents going on... (and complete off topic rubbish arguments...)

 

[Mythryn]

How many times does it need to be spelled out for you philt? If you aren't going to get loot on your main because you are botting...

THEN STOP BOTTING

... god man, it's not that hard to understand. Sorry that your guild makes you or anyone else bot a cleric or a puller or what-the-fuck-ever. Sorry that you don't get that this wasn't a direct nerf to you, or your guild, or any guild. It hurts some a lot more than others yeah, but it pretty much seems like its going to stay (which you have said over and over, so why are you still posting?) so unless you have some monumentous stroke of genius and come up with a better fix that makes everyone happy, why don't you stop shitting the thread up with all your "I sacrifice so I deserve loot" talk. ( Definition: giving up of something valued: a giving up of something valuable or important for somebody or something else considered to be of more value or importance ).

The "work-around" as you call it has to be there, because like Wiz said, if its not it fucks over the guy or gal who LDs right in the middle of the fight, so until he comes up with another way (I doubt a timer would be possible, its a start though), its what we have to live with, but that doesn't make him anywhere near biased or lazy, like you so nicely put it.


Yeah we all get it, the change sucks for some, but you or I or whoever logging off a main to hop some guildbot to help the raid isn't Wiz's problem, its yours or your guilds. This change isn't intended to be a direct slap in the face or anything, it's to prevent people that do not have the means to attain the gear on their own from getting said gear, be it Tmap drops (which were being /ooc'd daily) or DHK raid rots (which happened frequently). It sucks, but you've got to get over it.

 

[Zhak]

If your ranks are so full of unneeded classes (warriors and knights or bards [some of the worst stacking classes] for example) then your guild didn't recruit based on the guilds needs, but recruited to get numbers on raids up. Using effective recruiting methods and triming the fat will give you the proper number of each class you need, and you will probably end up with a few slots left over for some alts, or some not so needed classes, and players won't have to 'sacrifice' by logging their mained character off for a bot.

This sums up what i was going to post pretty well.

I'm sorry if your guild didn't recruit effectively or if critical members quit and your raids are now short some critical classes that need to be botted, but that's not sufficient cause for Wiz to raise raid caps.

 

[Zaos]

Its so nice how veteran players (many of which who play much less than those concerned about this issue) casually stroll onto the boards and crap on everyone with senseless, hollow posts about how things that impede the progress of the current server populus are good and proper solely because they themselves are obviously unaffected.

Thanks.

 

[Gea]

Amen.

Just to see what happens if I have absolutely nothing to contribute to a thread and post like... like....

Zhak.

 

[phlit]

Jose, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: you're retarded. I'm sorry to break it to you (as you probably forgot it's been mentioned before...)
Clearly you've not read or understood any of the arguments on the issue. As you're so happily uneffected, I suggest you piss off. For the rest of us who are effected by this change, how about you let us discuss it? Your genius idea of not boting under the current situation has - get this - been figured out by human fetuses. It's just that it has no bearing on the discussion. None. At all. Go figure. See why the retarded thing comes up? This isn't about 'omg what shall we do', it's about 'this change is lame, effects people and guilds in a varying amounts, sometimes pretty huge, and without actually achieving the goal the change was made for...' - therefore, lets try and persuade Wiz to change it, in some way, to something far more suitable to his actual goal. His goal, which I kindly quoted above, but was only a page or two back for anyone with a memory or inclination to read the thread entirely anyway.

 

[Kasreyn]

Jose, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: you're retarded.

phlit, in the future please refrain from personal attacks. this forum is for suggestions and requests, not bollocks.

KAS