More mid tier 6 and 12 man content

Once upon a time there was supposed to be some pofire 6-man but with everything going on at the time I understand why we never saw it.
 
Zaela said:
I don't care if ringers go, just if they trivialize it.
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as a person who has to do these sorts of things from time to time; it really sucks to have to clear back content and rot all the loot just to get clickies.
 
Or better yet, make really good clickies that ringers can't get.
 
Zaela said:
I would like to note that although I don't think much of the arguments in this thread (at the least I don't think that there is something irreparably broken that requires us to make more content to bridge a gap over a tier that is already overstuffed with rewards, in a raid game which only gets easier and easier as .
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Never suggested anything was broken, just that circumstances in the game have conspired to make progression difficult for some people.

Zaela said:
You can also expect that it will be harder/less forgiving/way more strategic and pay-attention-y than raid zones at the same tier. It's not gonna be an easier path through the tier by any means if I can help it.
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Never expected anything less.

I agree wholeheartedly clickies.

Wut no ringers!!!!!!!

Seriously, it would be awesome if there could be some writen or unwritten rule that such a zone was off limits to ringers and possibly even alts (last bit for debate).

Thanks for listening to the arguments.
 
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I got trolled into responding here because of the ringer hate:

The existing 6 man and 12 man zones are already vacant with bosses up for long periods of time.

Please don't think "ringers" are after your tier 6 and 7 loot when we are so busy adjusting the big pad we sit on our ass to eat pie all day that we can't even muster groups for On Tier Stuff!
 
Rorne said:
Yes and I actually don't agree with having to devote so much time but that's never going to change, it's basically one of the niches the game is built upon. What do you think brings people back to playing a 10 year old mmo beyond nostalgia and an appreciation for the new lore/other changes.
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I think the concept of free play is what brings people here, and the notion of catering to hardcore players is what drives them away. I think that most new players to Shards of Dalaya -- or any MMO really -- tend to be "casual", generally as a product of MMO juggernauts like World of Warcraft driving raiding and end game content/rewards in a casual direction.

Personally I don't believe anything is wrong with filling the "hardcore niche", even through an ancient client. However, I think the threat Eleazer cites is very real. Eventually the developers will have to accept that they are just developing content for a very small, exclusive group of people who fill a dying niche. That fact has become increasingly apparent recently after most of the higher end guilds were absorbed by Twilight Underground or whatever guild they are now, especially since Ikisith was released. Even veteran players who have been here for years recognize the trend. To deny their credibility is asinine.

I have nothing against that on principle, but the fact remains that with so many other options available to the increasing attraction of casual play, it's hard to keep a server alive without making the transition or at least compromising a bit.

There's currently a lot of content available in the mid tier; no one is disputing that. That said, there really isn't enough people available who are able or willing to do that content. From my own experience in the last couple/few years, most people at the high end skip tiers 1-6 entirely, and the rest quit well before even reaching that point. I think that's where Eleazer's suggestion stems from.

If the end game was made more accessible to smaller groups of casual players (6-12, etc), you would see a large influx of lasting new players. Whether or not the staff wants to drive Shards of Dalaya in that direction is wholly up to them though.
 
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Your cunning attempt at sarcasm really isn't that far from the truth though. You're like an unwitting prophet.
 
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That's silly. There's no reason that two mostly separate sets of tiers cannot coexist outside of things like -- disregarding possible client limitations -- time, resources, motivation, and general will. All of which probably are not present and never will be convenient for the unpaid staff of a free game, but that doesn't mean it's not a possibility.

You're right about most of the former though, excluding needing relatively sufficient gear. But I guess that depends on your interpretation of what constitutes "casual."

Edit: I disagree with your synopsis of the thread though. Eleazer made it pretty clear that, from his position, content in the middle tiers is not being raided because of dwindling numbers rather than not being available. Maybe I've misconstrued his perception.
 
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The scenario you're proposing is not black and white; variables like congruent effort and reward can still be valid in coexisting "slow" and "fast" progression schemes. But you're right, it is much easier to make the entire game either casual or hardcore in lieu of trying to incorporate elements of both into the open, competitive world you've created. My point is two fold:

1.) Casual players dominate the MMO field.
2.) Hardcore players can still thrive in a game designed for casual players.

Right now, there's really not a progression scheme that exists for casual players. People enjoy a sense of progress, even if it's only a fraction of the rewards more hardcore players experience.
 
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Someone said:
1.) Casual players dominate the MMO field.
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Sadly I don't know that this is true here where most of what there is to do at 65 is raid and improve your character which is basically a job depending on how high up the tiers you are. Before you get all riled at me know that I agree that it sucks and I hate how much time EVERYTHING takes for the sake of content decompression etc etc etc etc etc, but I believe that this is a fundamental part of the game and short of some massive overhaul it will never be easy or casual enough (and probably not even then because really it's a nebulous as hell concept).
 
Rorne said:
Sadly I don't know that this is true here where most of what there is to do at 65 is raid and improve your character which is basically a job depending on how high up the tiers you are. Before you get all riled at me know that I agree that it sucks and I hate how much time EVERYTHING takes for the sake of content decompression etc etc etc etc etc, but I believe that this is a fundamental part of the game and short of some massive overhaul it will never be easy or casual enough (and probably not even then because really it's a nebulous as hell concept).
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Yeah, I meant in general. This game was designed -- either intentionally or unintentionally -- for "hardcore" players; or, at least people who aren't "fatally" casual.

My implication was that the game will eventually diminish into your core group of hardcore players (which isn't very many) and a few wandering nomads if you don't at least slightly conform to a casual play style.
 
Also 6 man content is inherently flawed because not all classes are created equal and to make the content universally approachable it is being made just that much easier for an "optimal" set-up of classes, perhaps even to the point of being made trivial. 12-man content doesn't suffer from this as harshly but you will still see preferred class stacking and some classes only being included by virtue of being a warm body.
 
Rorne said:
Also 6 man content is inherently flawed because not all classes are created equal and to make the content universally approachable it is being made just that much easier for an "optimal" set-up of classes, perhaps even to the point of being made trivial. 12-man content doesn't suffer from this as harshly but you will still see preferred class stacking and some classes only being included by virtue of being a warm body.
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You can mitigate this with itemization, and encounter design. I'm not claiming I have the creative imagination to design encounters in such a way that they wouldn't limit the classes, but I'm sure the developers do; why would they be developers otherwise?

Logically you can balance encounters that are designed for one set of classes by designing another encounter that eliminates their usefulness partially. That might be a backdoor approach, but it's better than refraining from creating content at the risk of being optimal for a particular scheme of classes.
 
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