Mid-Range Cleric Heals

Utility:
u·til·i·ty   
[yoo-til-i-tee]
noun, plural -ties, adjective
–noun
1.
the state or quality of being useful; usefulness: This chemical has no utility as an agricultural fertilizer.
2.
something useful; a useful thing.
3.
a public service, as a telephone or electric-light system, a streetcar or railroad line, or the like. Compare public utility ( def. 1 ) .
4.
Often, utilities. a useful or advantageous factor or feature: the relative utilities of a religious or a secular education.
5.
Economics . the capacity of a commodity or a service to satisfy some human want.
6.
the principle and end of utilitarian ethics; well-being or happiness; that which is conducive to the happiness and well-being of the greatest number.
7.
Computers . utility program.
8.
utilities, stocks or bonds of public utilities.
9.
a grade of beef immediately below commercial.

I would say a Clerics ability at being super awesome amazing at single target/multi target healing to be their best utility at all levels. If you have a problem with this play a ranger and do nothing but heal.
 
jew_nose_it said:
haha no, I will never ever be hight. And I've never posted drunk to date, nor do I really drink anyways. I'm just sick of people being retarded bout the druid changes like they are some kind of genius. Clerics are still way better healers in 6man/raids and that hasn't changed a bit.

I tried to main heal with a druid in 4.2 and we could have done it had we kept trying but holy shit it was really hard to box my ranger at the same time with any effectiveness. If I was only playing the druid we could have done it for sure. But due to a certain aspect of the fight that now completely gimps druids it is nowhere near ideal. Also their groupheal sucks balls still that needs changed the most.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'll take your word on it. I do feel extremely useless and irrelevant on my cleric now however, when the Druid is chain-casting his ancient hots on 4 targets at the same time due to NO cooldown which are more than double the usefulness of the cleric's one, then laughing hysterically as he outnukes my mage on a single target as well as evaccing / porting the hell out of everyone left right and centre.

Not asking for any nerf or major 'powerup' - but would be nice if cleric's HoT CD was shortened to be able to at least chain effectively on one or two targets. Druids and Shamans' in that case would still be better in every way. Just my feelings from a person who doesn't raid 24/7 (through no choice of my own - timezones are evil).
 
i hope you are kidding. clerics do comparable dps without even casting a spell. a druid has to spend over 4 seconds casting nightfire, after which it may even get resisted. Nightfire does like 20 less damage as the mage relic and even then, it's just one nuke. A mage can do several rains and they have a nice pet. also, keeping 4 targets hotted would be EXTREMELY inefficient (thats like 1600 mana and almost 20 seconds of casting time). Do you know how fast a druid would be oom doing that? And honestly how much dps could a druid possibly be doing while spending that much time casting HoTs. I don't really see your argument here.

also: stop using ports as a balancing point.
 
darksabbath said:
I liked ... My Level 50 Alt best out of those. :)
Click to expand...

Some here like the mid 50 game better at least from time to time,whats your problem with that?
I am still waiting for a good reason why Druids get a *6* tick HoT or a HoT at all at level 44 as the main pro argument for Druid HoTs here
was they needed help with the highend game.

metvayne1 said:
also: stop using ports as a balancing point.
Click to expand...

Why?
They are mega-super-huge time savers.
I suggest you stop using them and use the "improved" MoP for a week,then come back here
and tell us they are useless.
 
Last edited:
The new MoP is not any harder than the old mop you just have to pay attention.

In raids we never use ports EVER from a druid. They don't count for shit as far as raiding is concerned which is that the balancing was designed to balance. PRE HIGH TIER RAIDING NO ONE CARES MUCH ABOUT ANYTHING IN REGARDS TO BALANCE.

Also for further reference there are the level of toons I play when I box healers

http://shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=ayesha
http://shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=zorcid
http://shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=baeste (I've played dymon more but not lately)

I don't know what crap you box when you box a healer or what you've raided with them but I've boxed a druid for a lot of raid content and basically pre HoTs there were .75 of a cleric that could cast Sta Regen, SoS and WoN. Now they have a nice niche with their stacking HoTs and finally a Group HoT. They still lack efficiency and clutch healing but that is partially made up for by their other attributes.
 
Last edited:
metvayne1 said:
i hope you are kidding. clerics do comparable dps without even casting a spell. a druid has to spend over 4 seconds casting nightfire, after which it may even get resisted. Nightfire does like 20 less damage as the mage relic and even then, it's just one nuke. A mage can do several rains and they have a nice pet. also, keeping 4 targets hotted would be EXTREMELY inefficient (thats like 1600 mana and almost 20 seconds of casting time). Do you know how fast a druid would be oom doing that? And honestly how much dps could a druid possibly be doing while spending that much time casting HoTs. I don't really see your argument here.
Click to expand...

If it's a short "final maps" fight as an example, the druid can happily burn mana healing + dpsing. HoTing 4 targets is an overstatement, I agree, but to point is the druid COULD do that due to not having a cooldown IF necessary - NOT how practical it is. And yeah - I have seen a cleric dps like there is no tomorrow with a weapon which procs some ice comet or something from a T12 raid named. And it's not cleric only usable. There are druid equivalent. So that puts the whole 'melee dps' out. And I really don't know what spells you are talking about, because all cleric nukes are lower damage, take longer than your druid nukes to cast, and I'm pointing at your single target outdoor druid nuke - whatever the heck it's called. No, I'm not saying that a druid is unbalanced compared to a mage - mage rains are still a lot more aggro / mana efficient and are AE. AND mages have an awesome pet. But I am pointing out that druids can do a heck lot more than "simply heal" - since people are trying to "balance a class that can do a heck lot more to be on par with a pure healer".

Oh and while a Druid's rains / AE's are worse off than a mage - they are fairly close, and again, a heck lot more than a cleric's (which again, is basically what people are trying to "balance the class up" against)

metvayne1 said:
also: stop using ports as a balancing point.
Click to expand...

Why not? Druids and Wizards are the only two classes that can port. Ports are an extremely valuable point of a class. Why do you think Druid is so popular for two boxing? Ports / DS / heal / nuke (everything basically - name me one thing they CAN'T do).

And again - read my post - I'm not proposing anyone gets nerfed or that the druid's HoT's need to suck more than cleric's - but I am saying that the cleric's perhaps need to NOT suck AS badly - just through CD - even if it means you can effectively chain at least ONE target. Not suggesting for an increase in healing rate / making it a group etc. since the dev's clearly felt that the druid - being a class who can already do a lot more needs a boost healing wise - (I disagree, I think druids were very well balanced before HoTs, but it's the dev's game and their decision, and ok fair enough - giving them A hot was in practice, a good idea). But at the very least keep the cleric HoT at least useful for when a druid is in group - even if it's cycling it on an offtank.

And once again, I AM talking from the view point of someone who doesn't raid 24/7 - and from the point that raids should NOT be used as balancing points where "class X is not going to use his ability A B and C so we will just ignore those altogether even though class Z does not have those abilities at all".
 
clerics have a 100% haste self buff and higher 1hb cap. no.

also: cleric hammer is almost certainly more dps than laerek.
 
Last edited:
I realize I posed like the exact same thing earlier and you clearly don't get it so I am just going to give up. But you are completely wrong so have fun with that.
 
if classes are not to be balanced on raids/6 mans and hard exp content then what are they to be balanced on? these aforementioned areas of the game make up more than half the content.
 
If they tried to balance the game around something other than the main reason why most people play the game that would be stupid. If you balanced every class to be equal at Pvp raiding would be stupid.
 
jew_nose_it said:
I realize I posed like the exact same thing earlier and you clearly don't get it so I am just going to give up. But you are completely wrong so have fun with that.
Click to expand...

Hehe, not disagreeing with you. I'm actually agreeing with you on that

jew_nose_it said:
I don't know what crap you box when you box a healer or what you've raided with them but I've boxed a druid for a lot of raid content and basically pre HoTs there were .75 of a cleric that could cast Sta Regen, SoS and WoN.
Click to expand...

I just feel that what the druids COULD do that cleric's couldn't well and truly made up for the remaining .25
 
Volkier said:
I just feel that what the druids COULD do that cleric's couldn't well and truly made up for the remaining .25
Click to expand...
This is the real disconnect for this issue because all they do in high end stuff (that the game is balanced around) is healing. Talking about stuff like their nuke is not taking into account whether they even have the luxury to use the spell when and where it counts. How they operate at Ye Olde EW Orc Forte is about as immaterial to deciding class balance as if I cited a class's performance in Fearstone Keep.
 
Rorne said:
This is the real disconnect for this issue because all they do in high end stuff (that the game is balanced around) is healing. Talking about stuff like their nuke is not taking into account whether they even have the luxury to use the spell when and where it counts. How they operate at Ye Olde EW Orc Forte is about as immaterial to deciding class balance as if I cited a class's performance in Fearstone Keep.
Click to expand...

I find druids DPSing on most raid fights in between heals, so long as they arn't lazy. There is definatly one fight in ToT specfically where a druid can effectivly dps and heal and a cleric can't, i'm sure you know what i'm takling about; granted this isn't the norm though - just saying.

Vokier: I kinda see where you're going with some of the things you're saying, but most of it is just way off. Ancient hammer + divine rage + yaulp 6 is where cleric DPS is at. I'd guess Crystalis + 100% haste ranged + yaulp 6 + divine rage may be better? But who really cares, the former is so much dps it's silly.

In another light though, druid utitly is not something to be simply pushed over. I remeber during the paladin/sk re balancing, FD was just brushed over as if it didn't really matter simply because in an *ideal situation* it wouldn't be relevant. However, the utility druids have through porting, just like sk's have through FD, really speeds up a lot of areas in the game (tmaps and saving a group from a wipe with evac for druids, and tagging when you're learning pulls to make sure its really just one with an sk.) It really would be silly to discard this, although it's not quite as big as it is being made out to be.

Hell, even wolf form is fidning a nice little place in the raid game mroe frequently than before with Iksith content - and for those who arn't slackers iksith ports/foe/evacs make traveling so much friggin faster that to get to BQ if I don't have a druid with me, I load one, port/foe/evac/run a char, then rinse and repeat for the second. This may just be convience, but it saves a metric fuck-ton of time (actual measurement!) which really does add up.

What this really comes down to is clerics can do two things. Hammer and heal. Hammering usually isn't going to happen on raids, so they just heal. Druids can do a ton of things, usually they are just going to heal, and maybe toss a few dots/nukes out there. Outside of raids they do pretty much everything other than shine your shoes though - while clerics can...well...finally use that hammer of thiers! Anyone else think this has something to do with why there are a silly amount of mained druids and a serious lack of mained clerics? I sure as hell do.
 
fd is almost the most powerful ability in the game. ports and fds cannot be compared. fd is such an awesome tool in 6 man and raids. ports are not. they are just good for those off days where you wanna do a few tmaps and you are bored. i rarely find myself in dire need of porting.
 
Ulandz said:
Some here like the mid 50 game better at least from time to time,whats your problem with that?
I am still waiting for a good reason why Druids get a *6* tick HoT or a HoT at all at level 44 as the main pro argument for Druid HoTs here
was they needed help with the highend game.
Click to expand...
They get a hot at 44 so they understand how their class changes at 65
and can play it under the current circumstance.

Why?
They are mega-super-huge time savers.
I suggest you stop using them and use the "improved" MoP for a week,then come back here
and tell us they are useless.
Click to expand...
Convenience is irrelevant to the main function of the class. Having played a druid through Sanctum on raids, let me make several points.

The druid niche was large quick healing. The cleric quick with archaic and 5 tomes stomps the crap out of the druid large heal, which scales with tome but doesn't get the massive buff that is the cleric archaic. Beginning in late tier 8, i used to wonder if the druid main heal squelched on a few, very hard hitting bosses when it didn't crit.

This became more common as we progressed.I would also say that at this point druid heals were lacking such that if the three man rule didn't exist druids would be left at home. In fact, some guilds rolled two shaman and did so. I don't think a class should be in this position because it can port. I'm not even getting into how bad the old druid group heal is, becoming useless in late tier 8 and deeply suspect prior.

Next, the game is balanced around cleric heals. If the change had been such that druid main heal was changed to scale more effectively, this would require a change to the cleric quick heal. I hope I don't need to point out the number of waterfall changes that would ensue in this, not to mention the complaining that would result from mained clerics.

Last, what alternate universe are you playing in where groups aren't grateful to have healers from any of the priest classes?
 
quote Boehm:
"They get a hot at 44 so they understand how their class changes at 65
and can play it under the current circumstance.

Dunno whats hard to understand about HoTs and this still doesnt answer the question why
they get a *6* ticks HoT.
And btw why do Shammies not get a HoT before the level 60 (self only even) one to "understand"(lol) how they work?

quote Boehm:
"Convenience is irrelevant to the main function of the class."
I am not talking about convenience here,the point is while others move their chars or boxxes a Druid already gets things done.

quote Boehm:
"Beginning in late tier 8..."
I bet this is a very small minority of players who plays in this tier and upper,so why is
everything balanced around them?

quote Boehm:
"Last, what alternate universe are you playing in where groups aren't grateful to have healers from any of the priest classes?"
With my 65 Shammy I cant even do easier places as a main healer because of missing group heals,he simply cannot cast his single target heals fast enough to keep a group up if there
are aoe'ing mobs,Rust,Enlightened Mashines,Eld's Wizards trash,RSM etc. comes to my mind.
Note,I do not want group heals,but seeing that a class other than Cleric that already had
group- and complete- heals now even gets another healing spell line looks quite unbalanced
to me.
 
metvayne1 said:
fd is almost the most powerful ability in the game. ports and fds cannot be compared. fd is such an awesome tool in 6 man and raids. ports are not. they are just good for those off days where you wanna do a few tmaps and you are bored. i rarely find myself in dire need of porting.
Click to expand...

Ports - useless
Best sta/hp regen buff - useless
Best damage shield - useless
FR/Ac debuff - useless
A variety of nukes based on different resists - useless
Mana regen buff - useless
Group heal - useless
Complete heal - useless

I wonder what poor Druids did before they got HoTs. ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom