Mid-Range Cleric Heals

[Tarutao]

(They are masters of all things healing, afterall.)

I think this statement about the Cleric class is demonstrative of the disagreement at the most basic level. In short, I disagree with this statement.

 

[darksabbath]

And why is that Tao? Hold on, let me pull a quote from our very own wiki.
"Clerics are the best healers throughout the game and as such are highly sought after."

You don't invite a cleric to a group to be a nuker do you? Do you use clerics to play tank on your raids? Yeah, I thought not. They are there to heal people, plain and simple. So, please explain how you disagree with the statement.

 

[Rorne]

And why is that Tao? Hold on, let me pull a quote from our very own wiki.
"Clerics are the best healers throughout the game and as such are highly sought after."

Most raw healing ability but not masters of all forms of healing (regen/HoTs)? That is my guess anyways.

 

[Tarutao]

Hold on, let me pull a quote from our very own wiki.

You've quoted a sentence from the player-run wiki, and you are claiming it as an absolute truth and guideline for the Dev team. I don't think that's fair.

You don't invite a cleric to a group to be a nuker do you? Do you use clerics to play tank on your raids? Yeah, I thought not. They are there to heal people, plain and simple. So, please explain how you disagree with the statement.

Clerics primary role on raids is to heal. To say they should be the best at every facet of healing at all times is a large stretch beyond that. Otherwise, wizards and rogues could not coexist.

 

[Lleoc]

The problem with HoTs is they are fickle as there is no way to scale them up for what you are doing, Relic'd druids have the option to cast Ancient and Relic but clerics don't even have the option to stack EoB with AA HoT or anything so its 500/tic + effects which doesn't even cut it most the time, hence the need for a more effecient way to use a big heal, something between a patch and a massive heal

You started this thread asking for a lower heal to be able to heal tanks that can't benefit from 100% of your current big heals crit. HoT's even if you don't keep them up 100% will do this efficiently w/o wasting a lot of mana. If you're arguing that your shitty non relic heal is already too big but HoT's are too small to keep a tank up I honestly don't know what to tell you other than reroll a shaman? Clerics big heals are... big. Trying to maximize your crits 100% of the time is unrealistic as they only keep getting bigger (stupid big like close to 7k noncrit big) as you progress your cleric.

 

[darksabbath]

You've quoted a sentence from the player-run wiki, and you are claiming it as an absolute truth and guideline for the Dev team. I don't think that's fair.




Clerics primary role on raids is to heal. To say they should be the best at every facet of healing at all times is a large stretch beyond that. Otherwise, wizards and rogues could not coexist.

Wow, Tao, just wow. Yes, I used a line from the wiki, as it was an easy description to explain the viewpoint. I didn't explain it as an ultimate guideline to the class. There is certainly other discussions in this forum, on how an upper-tier cleric can do good dps with the summoned hammer, yaulp, etc. But they are doing that in low tier dungeons. That is not their niche by any stretch. Other than hp/ac buff, all anyone really expects a cleric to do, in most situations, is heal.

I don't think asking for the recast on the cleric HoT to be reduced is overpowered at all. It seems strange that druids get 2 HoT's that stack, with basically insta-recast, while the cleric single target has such a long cool down.

The wizard/rogue crap is pure troll, I won't bother with that shit.

 

[metvayne1]

Wow, Tao, just wow. Yes, I used a line from the wiki, as it was an easy description to explain the viewpoint. I didn't explain it as an ultimate guideline to the class. There is certainly other discussions in this forum, on how an upper-tier cleric can do good dps with the summoned hammer, yaulp, etc. But they are doing that in low tier dungeons. That is not their niche by any stretch. Other than hp/ac buff, all anyone really expects a cleric to do, in most situations, is heal.

I don't think asking for the recast on the cleric HoT to be reduced is overpowered at all. It seems strange that druids get 2 HoT's that stack, with basically insta-recast, while the cleric single target has such a long cool down.

The wizard/rogue crap is pure troll, I won't bother with that shit.

yea but they take 8 seconds to cast lol

 

[Cyzaine]

We have been desperately trying to find a use for 14 classes with tons of overlap. We are not going to repower anyone to be the best at anything if possible.

 

[Boehm]

We have been desperately trying to find a use for 14 classes with tons of overlap. We are not going to repower anyone to be the best at anything if possible.

This shows and is, I think, quietly appreciated.

 

[jew_nose_it]

We have been desperately trying to find a use for 14 classes with tons of overlap. We are not going to repower anyone to be the best at anything if possible.

Balance is hard, as long as everything is carefully explained by people who know things then its OK. Unexplained random changes suck.

 

[Cyzaine]

Balance is hard, as long as everything is carefully explained by people who know things then its OK. Unexplained random changes suck.

Well where's the fun in that!

 

[Volkier]

Balance is hard, as long as everything is carefully explained by people who know things then its OK. Unexplained random changes suck.

Perfectly honest, I feel that balance has also destroyed a heck lot more games than it 'helped'. Don't get me wrong - balance needs to be a concern within every addition / change - but it cannot be the overwhelming factor. Take this cleric healing vs druid healing issue for example - The druids now have the better HoT ability whilst the Clerics have the better / more efficient single heal. Prevents the cleric being 'the best' healer in everything? Yes. Balanced? Yes.

But when you look at it from a factor that the Druid can single nuke harder than a mage, has DS / pet (albeit crappy, but which CAN tank with healing), snaring , mana regen buffs, Evac, all sorts of other utility (eyesight / levi), spirit of wolf / eagle / Teleporting (which is a big thing) AND can still heal fairly well with single point heals - thought perhaps not as well as the cleric - and you would see WHY people DON'T mind seeing the cleric be simply the best healer.

Add in the 'fun to play' factor - a druid simply has more fun playing due to more content being available for soloing, being able to do things other than heal, and just port around. Cleric on the other hand, unless two boxed, is sitting on his backside from level 10 to 65 and god knows how many AA's, healing group, until they get decent enough gear to be able to do similar things solo that a druid was capable of a year back, and still without a lot of the extra abilities. Look at live as an example - (and no, I'm not suggesting SoD is anything, or should be anything like live, as most of us are here BECAUSE live sucks) - but the 'unbalance' between the druid and the cleric there was SIGNIFICANTLY more - to the extent that druids where only considered healers on a 'last resort' basis... And yet Druids where still more common than Clerics simply because they where more fun to play.

I guess what I'm saying is - perhaps having one certain class specifically good at one certain thing IS balance - especially where heals are concerned. On that note though - this is fairly off topic as I tend to agree that cleric's heals are fine as is (though to be perfectly honest, I feel they where fine before Druids got the new HoT.)

 

[jew_nose_it]

Druid pet should not be tanking anything...

Also the change was in regards to RAIDING AND SIX MAN CONTENT...DRUIDS ARE AND WERE ALWAYS THE KING OF XP GROUPS/FARMING/CIRCLEJERKING HEALING.

Half of that shit you mention druids being good at is not applicable on raids and NOWHERE nearly as important as straight up honest healing.


phew that was hard.

 

[Ulandx]

Also the change was in regards to RAIDING AND SIX MAN CONTENT...DRUIDS ARE AND WERE ALWAYS THE KING OF XP GROUPS/FARMING/CIRCLEJERKING HEALING.

Half of that shit you mention druids being good at is not applicable on raids and NOWHERE nearly as important as straight up honest healing.

So why is it okay that Clerics are next to useless in xp groups and only good in the highend
game whereas Druids excel in both areas?

 

[Thade]

So why is it okay that Clerics are next to useless in xp groups and only good in the highend
game whereas Druids excel in both areas?

What the hell are you talking about?

Clerics are amazing in groups. They provide a respectable amount of mana free dps, and having to cast less heals meaning less time medding. Also druids hardly "excel" in highend game more so "Finally almost are acceptable" if you can't find a cleric.

And saying druids "Excel" at grouping when literally -any- healer can function in an on tier group as a sole healer (except maybe a REALLY low tiered shaman without tomes or relics or any raid gear, but I could even solo heal mod maps on thade back in the day when those were on tier for him) is silly. Any healer can "Excel" at grouping. druids don't have some insane advantage for grouping that the other healers lack (unless you mean ports but that would be silly).

You have some really illogical insane beef with druids that makes 0 sense.

 

[Faelus]

And druids still aren't interchangeable with a cleric in most any content other than exp groups due to our lack of direct healing, and slow group heals.

 

[Volkier]

Driz, are you high / drunk right now ? Just wondering :

 

[jew_nose_it]

haha no, I will never ever be hight. And I've never posted drunk to date, nor do I really drink anyways. I'm just sick of people being retarded bout the druid changes like they are some kind of genius. Clerics are still way better healers in 6man/raids and that hasn't changed a bit.

I tried to main heal with a druid in 4.2 and we could have done it had we kept trying but holy shit it was really hard to box my ranger at the same time with any effectiveness. If I was only playing the druid we could have done it for sure. But due to a certain aspect of the fight that now completely gimps druids it is nowhere near ideal. Also their groupheal sucks balls still that needs changed the most.

 

[Rorne]

This was a stupid thread to begin with and has only become worse, so

So why is it okay that Clerics are next to useless in xp groups and only good in the highend
game whereas Druids excel in both areas?

*sigh*

Here we go again...

If Druids need to be any more "balanced" they should make their DS do LESS damage than
the Mage's one and give it the duration and target type of Swift like the Wind.

Just to clarify,I am not biased against Druids or any other class,would have the same
discussion if they give backstab to Rangers or fd to Pallies.My point is I want very distinct
classes with clearly defined roles and giving class defining abilities like HoTs and (earlier)
group heals to Druids (or other classes) makes the game not better.

I played a Druid main on live when their best heal at 55 was superior Healing and I boxxed
one in TSS(level 75) era.

Slow is situational and only needed on raid targets,in xp groups its contra productive making
mobs not taking damage by damage shields(!).

We are not talking about using mules for anything,this is true for other classes also and another
topic.

I didnt say Shamans are not fine and I can live with their limitations,only thing is Druids seem
to have no limitations at all,next they get backstab.



We are talking about making an already overpowered class making even more overpowered.

Thats my point,group heals,complete heals,ports,damage shields,track made easily up for
slow/canni,giving Druids HoTs already crossed the line,nonetheless now people are even asking
for more.

Also with ports they already had a critical ability,not everyone has gate clickies to all around the
world.Using mules to move a raid from target to target is terribly inefficient as is doing t-maps
without porters.
Then there is the combination of ports/track - no other class can check out if possible targets
are up that fast.

Next they get group heals,complete heals and resses...

quote:
"Druids cannot match the healing power and speed of clerics"

Yeah,Druids are NOT Clerics.

Its always the same old story,player sees all the *great* utilities Druids get,level him up
to notice that his healing power is *slightly* less than a Cleric and go to the boards whining
how Druids "suck" in the endgame.
I like it how those requests totally ignore the lack of almost any utility or dps of Clerics
throughout their career,making it much harder to level them up.

I have no sympathy at all,either live with it or build a Cleric if you want the best heals.

Hopefully SoD devs wont fall for this crap like *** devs did,where giving away *core* abilities
of classes to nearly everyone else made the classes less distinct from each other and as a
result the game boring.

Possible Ulandz rename ideas: White Noise, The Broken Record, My Level 50 Alt, Well On Live I, Balancing Dysfunction, Situationally Slow, and finally Dim Healer.

 

[jew_nose_it]

So am I a gray noise bitch now?